Dash Question...

[High2by]

Was a full gauge cluster dash ever offered for the late model renix with a column shift indicator? '89 model to be specific, if you can consider that to be a "late" model. 

[Minuit]

Not with a tach. I believe the "3/4" cluster with oil and temp gauges was available, but not the full cluster with tachometer.

[High2by]

5 minutes ago, Minuit said:

Not with a tach. I believe the "3/4" cluster with oil and temp gauges was available, but not the full cluster with tachometer.

 

Well shoot. How scarce are the 3/4 clusters? 

 

Thanks for the info.

[fiatslug87]

People have modified full clusters to include the shift indicator, there's probably something in the DIY section.

[Minuit]

12 hours ago, High2by said:

 

Well shoot. How scarce are the 3/4 clusters? 

 

Thanks for the info.

They aren't extremely common, but they are out there.

 

That being said, if you're willing to get your hands dirty, it's not terribly complicated to modify a tach cluster to have the shift indicator.

 

 

 

After looking through some factory brochures, I'm not sure the "3/4" cluster was even offered with a column shift automatic, at least not in '87.

[High2by]

They aren't extremely common, but they are out there.
 
That being said, if you're willing to get your hands dirty, it's not terribly complicated to modify a tach cluster to have the shift indicator.
 
 
 
After looking through some factory brochures, I'm not sure the "3/4" cluster was even offered with a column shift automatic, at least not in '87.

I can do this. Thank you!



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[High2by]

I went to LKQ today and got me an '88 full gauge cluster to start this modification with. Looks like I'm gonna have to roll the odometer on the new one, forward by about 70,000 miles to make it match the current one.

 

I also picked up a manual window regulator, a couple female seat belt pieces and some other odd and ends I needed. I can't wait to get all this put together!!

[JustEmptyEveryPocket]

12 hours ago, High2by said:

roll the odometer on the new one, forward by about 70,000 miles

Technically illegal, but easy enough to do. Remove speedometer, pull tiny c-clip, loose c-clip as it bounces around, spend 2 hours looking for clip, spend 2 minutes rolling odometer numbers around, curse for 2 more hours trying to re-install clip, finish. Seriously, put down a towel and WATCH THE DAMN TINY CLIP. Otherwise its straight forward.

[Jeep Driver]

1 hour ago, JustEmptyEveryPocket said:

Technically illegal, but easy enough to do. Remove speedometer, pull tiny c-clip, loose c-clip as it bounces around, spend 2 hours looking for clip, spend 2 minutes rolling odometer numbers around, curse for 2 more hours trying to re-install clip, finish. Seriously, put down a towel and WATCH THE DAMN TINY CLIP. Otherwise its straight forward.

Not illegal, technically nor otherwise. 

What is illegal is defrauding a buyer. If you are not attempting to defraud anyone .......there is no crime.

 

Further, I suspect in most states, as is in TN, a 30 year old vehicle is 'mileage exempt' anyway. 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.odo-pro.com/digital-mileage-correction.html?gclid=CjwKCAiAuqHwBRAQEiwAD-zr3ZO-0NjNndf-gSJIkxc4HBRhLNWmkYyNMY6-xlxkbmDORKeZs2hLIhoC_W0QAvD_BwE

Odometer Programming - $89
We can program odometers on most gauge clusters and modules from 1992-2019. We have over 10 years of experience and we only use the best equipment and the latest software to ensure a quick, quality job!

The gauge cluster is one of the most complicated and delicate pieces of electronics in a vehicle having a multitude of gauges, displays and circuits. This combination of moving parts, displays and circuitry makes it a common point of failure in vehicles. It is also susceptible to fire and flood damage and theft.

Repair or Cloning:
If you have a faulty or damaged gauge cluster, we always recommend trying to repair the original as a first option. We have repair services available for a multitude of gauge clusters HERE. If the unit cannot be repaired, the next best option is to clone a replacement cluster from the original. We can clone most clusters even in cases of flood or fire damage, but the part number of the replacement would need to be identical to the original. We have a cloning service available HERE.

Programming:
If the original unit is unrepairable and cloning is not an option either because a replacement unit of the same part number is not available or the original unit is no longer present, then programming it to reflect the true mileage of the vehicle is the next best option. However, there a few thing to know before proceeding with programming:

Legal:
Programming the odometer on a part to match the true mileage of the vehicle is legal, as long you are not misrepresenting the true mileage of the vehicle. Here are a couple helpful links to information that will help you understand U.S. odometer laws regarding service and sale of vehicles:

U.S. Code 49 U.S. Code § 32704. Service, repair, and replacement
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/32704

U.S. Code 49 U.S. Code § 32705. Disclosure requirements on transfer of motor vehicles
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/49/32705

Please read carefully and understand U.S. Code 49 U.S. Code § 32705. "Disclosure requirements on transfer of motor vehicles" to know your responsibilities when transferring a vehicle.

[rokinn]

Jeep Driver jumped in ahead of me while I was writing my post but I'll post it anyway.

 

It may be worth your time to check you state statutes on the subject of odometer "tampering."  In Colorado it's the attempt to defraud that is considered illegal.  Rolling the odometer forward to match the original wouldn't fall into this category.  There are Federal statutes that say tampering with an odometer is strictly illegal but those seem to apply to larger scale operations, but a one time incident would likely be referred to the state.  There may be notification requirements to a new owner in your state of any changes that were done.

[JustEmptyEveryPocket]

Huh, learn something more everyday. I take back my illegal claim, but I do not take back my hatred of that tiny c-clip.

[High2by]

I don’t know if it’s illegal or not but I would think that trying to match the original odometer would actually be encouraged but what do I know.

I will say that little clip is LITTLE!! I got the deal done, all but the actual cutting the hole in the tach gauge mainly because I don’t have a good way to do it. I’m gonna have to borrow a Dremel tool to finish it up. I got the 4 corner holes drilled and the hole outline marked though. I also need to do some more work on the glass cover. I’ve got to get some of that headlight restoration stuff.


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[High2by]

Ok guys, I got the new dash installed with the gear shift indicator put in. It looks pretty good but I still need to work on the clear plastic cover.

When I started the truck the oil pressure gauge maxed out and has stayed there. I swapped the sensor out like was suggested so I’m not sure what’s up there but the fuel gauge also shows past full and I know it only has 1/2 tank in it. I used a cluster out of an 88 model XJ. Does that have anything to do with the gauges reading off?

The tach and the speedo work fine. The volt gauge reads awful low though. I didn’t hook up the temp gauge yet, parts store didn’t have the right sensor In stock.

Any thoughts on the oil and fuel gauges?


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[Minuit]

Does the oil pressure gauge go back to 0 with the engine off? If so, sounds like you got an oil pressure sensor for a light, not a gauge.

 

The volt gauge is typical of the Renix era. Expect it to read way low due to voltage drop between the alternator and gauge. Cleaning connections will help a little, but pretty much all of them do it.

 

Did the fuel gauge work properly before the cluster swap?

 

An '88 cluster should work fine in your '89. I'm using an '87 cluster in mine, no problems, except that my volt gauge reads too low too.

[Ωhm]

13 minutes ago, High2by said:

Any thoughts on the oil and fuel gauges?

Check G102. Lower side of dash, near steering column. Black wire on eyelet.

[High2by]

The oil gauge does not drop when the engine is off. I think I got the right sensor, PS133 from Auto Zone. I know it looks a lot bigger than the one I took off of it.

As for the fuel gauge, yes it did work before I made the swap.

That makes sense on the volt gauge, unfortunately that’s an old Jeep for me.


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[High2by]

Check G102. Lower side of dash, near steering column. Black wire on eyelet.

I will check that first thing tomorrow.

Refresh of all the grounds is on the “to do” list. I just haven’t made it that far but I will hit that one first.

Thanks!


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[jdog]

Unplug and re plug the cluster

Stock 1988 swb 4.0 ax15 np 231.

[High2by]

Unplug and re plug the cluster

Stock 1988 swb 4.0 ax15 np 231.

I did that a couple times but I didn’t use any contact cleaner before installing it so I want to wipe off all the connectors then try again. I hope that using cleaner and checking the ground helps and even if it doesn’t I know it needs it.

Thanks!


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[High2by]

I checked the G102 ground and even added a jumper wire from it to one of the studs that holds the e-brake bracket but no change in the oil or fuel gauge. I also unplugged and re-plugged and wiped the connectors to see if that would help. I did notice that the volt gauge is now closer to 14 volts than it was, so something did improve.

 

I added a ground from the battery negative to the inside fender well because there wasn't one there. I also noticed there isn't a ground wire from the block to the firewall, the old braided strap is gone but nothing to replace it. I will add a ground wire for that and clean the grounds on the side of the block as well. I'm hoping that the block isn't grounded good enough for the oil sensor to work properly. Could that be the reason that the oil gauge is "pegged" out?

 

As for the fuel gauge, I will work on the rear ground behind the tail light and add a jumper wire from there to the frame to hopefully improve things in the rear. I'm hoping that might help with the fuel gauge not reading right???

 

I'm placing a lot of hopes in fixing the grounds and reinforcing them where I can to solving my dash problems. Even if the gauges still don't work right, I do know the grounds need fixing and upgrading. Is there anything I am missing?

[Minuit]

In regards to the fuel gauge, if it worked before you touched it and now doesn't, that strongly implicates either the new gauge or something that you did in the process of swapping the cluster. Maybe try plugging the old cluster in again for a minute and see if the fuel gauge goes to where it should be? If so, the fuel gauge is not terribly difficult to replace. Come to think of it, I might have some spares.

 

Check for dirty or broken connections on the back foil of the cluster.

 

As for the oil gauge, try this: unplug the oil pressure sensor. The gauge should go way past 80. Now, ground out the wire that plugs into the sensor. The gauge should now read 0. If it does those things, chances are the gauge is good. Did you use any thread sealing tape on the sensor when you put it on?

[High2by]

4 minutes ago, Minuit said:

In regards to the fuel gauge, if it worked before you touched it and now doesn't, that strongly implicates either the new gauge or something that you did in the process of swapping the cluster. Maybe try plugging the old cluster in again for a minute and see if the fuel gauge goes to where it should be? If so, the fuel gauge is not terribly difficult to replace. Come to think of it, I might have some spares.

 

Check for dirty or broken connections on the back foil of the cluster.

 

As for the oil gauge, try this: unplug the oil pressure sensor. The gauge should go way past 80. Now, ground out the wire that plugs into the sensor. The gauge should now read 0. If it does those things, chances are the gauge is good. Did you use any thread sealing tape on the sensor when you put it on?

 

I will try plugging in the old cluster and seeing what the fuel gauge does and report back hopefully tomorrow. If not it will be Saturday before I can.

 

I did inspect the foil on the back of the cluster before I left the junk yard but I could have missed something. I will recheck it.

 

I will also try what you suggest on the oil sensor. I did NOT use thread tape on the sensor when I put it in, only because I didn't have any. I would have liked to have used some though but it isn't leaking so maybe it'll be ok.

 

Thank you for the suggestions!

[Minuit]

11 minutes ago, High2by said:

 

I did NOT use thread tape on the sensor when I put it in, only because I didn't have any. I would have liked to have used some though but it isn't leaking so maybe it'll be ok.

 

I would suggest not putting any on if you don't have a leak. You may notice that the sensor only has one wire going to it - it is a variable resistor connected on one end to the oil pressure gauge and to ground on the other end. The resistance to ground varies with oil pressure, resulting in a current through the gauge that varies with oil pressure. To work, it has to have a low resistance path to ground, which happens to be the threads where it screws into the engine. Thread tape can disrupt that connection.

[High2by]

34 minutes ago, Minuit said:

I would suggest not putting any on if you don't have a leak. You may notice that the sensor only has one wire going to it - it is a variable resistor connected on one end to the oil pressure gauge and to ground on the other end. The resistance to ground varies with oil pressure, resulting in a current through the gauge that varies with oil pressure. To work, it has to have a low resistance path to ground, which happens to be the threads where it screws into the engine. Thread tape can disrupt that connection.

 

That's good to know. I'll keep an eye on it for any leaking but I won't use any tape unless I have to. Thanks!

[High2by]

It's been raining non stop for the last two days and without a garage to work in, no work has been done.

 

I did get my 40 tooth speedo gear and if it ever quits raining, I'll get it put in and hopefully that'll make the speedo read correctly.