Thoughts on handgun safes

[coolwind57]

I'd like to permanent-mount a small handgun safe in my truck.  I thought of installing (or custom building) a little vault to install in my recently installed dakota console.  Only if I can make it really secure since it is a common place for thieves to look into.  Or perhaps somewhere under or around the driver's seat.  Maybe up against the back wall. 

 

I mean, the MJ is not exactly the most secure vehicle to have a gun stored inside, so, what are you gun-toters doing for handgun security?

 

 

 

[Dzimm]

Are you allowed to carry in your state?  The best place in my opinion is on your body, that way it's always within reach and easy to use. 

 

If someone steals your truck, guess what, they stole your gun too.  Even if it's in a lockbox.  Keep in mind also, if you need that gun, how long would it take you to get it out of the lockbox?  Also if anyone else is driving the truck, the gun can't be in it otherwise it becomes in their possession. 

[Eagle]

14 minutes ago, Dzimm said:

Are you allowed to carry in your state?  The best place in my opinion is on your body, that way it's always within reach and easy to use. 

 

 

Some states allow vehicle carry even if you don't have a carry permit. Every state is different. We shouldn't generalize.

 

 

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If someone steals your truck, guess what, they stole your gun too.  Even if it's in a lockbox.
 

 

That's what police reports are for.

 

 

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Keep in mind also, if you need that gun, how long would it take you to get it out of the lockbox?

 

 

Biometric safe. (Thumb print)

 

 

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Also if anyone else is driving the truck, the gun can't be in it otherwise it becomes in their possession.
 

 

Not if it's locked in a safe and the person doesn't have the key or combination. If you have a small arsenal in a gun safe in your house, does a friend have possession of your arsenal when he stops in for a beer on Saturday afternoon?

[dvitha]

All my drivers carry and have LTC here. Texas anyone can carry pistols in the vehicles just as long as it is not visible. Long guns are open and can be seen.  We like  put them on the visor above the driver in our Jeeps.

[Dzimm]

13 minutes ago, Eagle said:

Not if it's locked in a safe and the person doesn't have the key or combination. If you have a small arsenal in a gun safe in your house, does a friend have possession of your arsenal when he stops in for a beer on Saturday afternoon?

Homes and vehicles are handled completely differently when it comes to the law and it varies drastically from state to state.  That being said, the majority of situations I have seen when it comes to possetion of objects in a vehicle, it either falls under whoever the object is closest to, or whoever is driving the vehicle even if it is in the locked glove box, therefore it would be safe to assume that a gun being locked in a glove box would be similar to a gun locked in a safe under the driver's seat.  This statement you quoted here is definitely more up in the air as far as legality goes and it may completely depend on the cop your dealing with.  I'm just giving Coolwind things to think about. 

 

12 minutes ago, Eagle said:

Some states allow vehicle carry even if you don't have a carry permit. Every state is different. We shouldn't generalize.

I wasn't generalizing, I was just saying if concealed carry is allowed in his state, IMO it makes the most sense to carry on his body so the firearm is always at the ready and on his side... Or appendix. That way it could be used inside or outside the truck in an emergency. 

 

12 minutes ago, Eagle said:

 

That's what police reports are for.

That isn't going to help the fact that your truck and gun are both missing.  You may get the truck back but I bet the gun disappears.  Unless it was a junky who needed a ride and could care less what's in the truck. 

 

12 minutes ago, Eagle said:

Biometric safe. (Thumb print)

These are definitely quick to open and a good option but it's an added step and the location of the safe could still make it difficult to get to since he's looking to conceal it.  These added steps to get to the gun could cost valuable seconds in a life or death situation. 

[coolwind57]

45 minutes ago, Dzimm said:

Are you allowed to carry in your state?  The best place in my opinion is on your body, that way it's always within reach and easy to use. 

 

If someone steals your truck, guess what, they stole your gun too.  Even if it's in a lockbox.  Keep in mind also, if you need that gun, how long would it take you to get it out of the lockbox?  Also if anyone else is driving the truck, the gun can't be in it otherwise it becomes in their possession. 

 

Yes, I'm allowed to carry.  The best place to carry is on your body until you arrive at a location that does not allow handguns inside (gov't buildings, my work, etc).

 

I'm good on all the rest of your input.  Just looking for ideas on how others have mounted their pistol safes.  

[coolwind57]

48 minutes ago, Eagle said:

Biometric safe. (Thumb print)

 

I'm leaning against these.  I haven't read much good on these as far as reliability unless you get WAY over my idea of an acceptable budget.  I'm don't care for key-operated ones either, as that's just another key for me to lose.

 

What I am leaning towards is maybe a 4-combination latch.  No batteries required.  But more important is the security and location (accessibility).  I kinda don't like cables, even with their 1500-lbs of force resistance--still cut them pretty easily.   

 

As far as accessibility, I'm not concerned with "quick access."  The handgun will be on me most of the time.  But I need occasional storage at times when I'm out and about. 

 

I'd love to see some mounting ideas/ingenuity that I know some of you guys have.

[Pete M]

do you want the ability to put it in storage while still in your seat?  

[coolwind57]

18 minutes ago, Pete M said:

do you want the ability to put it in storage while still in your seat?  

 

I suppose that would be ideal, but not totally required.   I'd be ok with exiting then stowing if i could do it without making all a big epic event. 

[Pete M]

seems like a box bolted to the back wall behind the pass seat might be best.

[Jeep Driver]

5 hours ago, coolwind57 said:

 

Yes, I'm allowed to carry.  The best place to carry is on your body until you arrive at a location that does not allow handguns inside (gov't buildings, my work, etc).

 

I'm good on all the rest of your input.  Just looking for ideas on how others have mounted their pistol safes.  

Words have meaning. Your Right to carry SHALL not be infringed. 

 

I just read the wiki version of IN carry laws, it's good to see that IN have cleaned up their mess. 

My father lives in NE IN, I was visiting there in '98 with my kids when I was pulled over, arrested, XJ impounded, guns confiscated.........a fiasco, and a chicken$#!& arrest. A-misdemeanor, 1 year in jail. Illegal transport of a firearm. 

 

 

IN laws pretty much mirror TN laws with one important exception, here in TN private enterprises SHALL not infringe on my right to carry. 

 

IN is a SHALL issue state........this is good. And an open-carry state, as is TN, even better! As it should be.

 

 

 

 

I go armed everywhere, well armed. 

 

One thing  you must remember, you own your gun, YOU are responsible for YOUR gun at all times, box, no box, locked 6 ways to Sunday or not, YOU are ALWAYS responsible. 

Say nothing to no one, once someone knows you have a box, they know your habits. 

Never allow anyone to have possession of your truck with your gun locked in the box, they have the truck, they have the box, they have the gun, locked or not, they have possession, not you. 

[Keyav8r]

I’m seeing more and more places where you can’t have a gun (or even a pocket knife, in some cases) on your person or in your vehicle anywhere on their premises.  They reserve the right to search your vehicle if you come on their premises (and they have several times).  Getting caught means you’re permanently banned from their property and possibly having a chat with local law enforcement authorities.  As I’m in industrial sales, getting permanently banned from my best customers is not a good thing.  On the other hand, there are areas I travel to or through where I would feel a lot more comfortable armed.

So what I’d like to have is a gun box/safe that doesn’t look like one and doesn’t have an obvious locking mechanism.  Something that I could easily stash the gun in before I go onsite and retrieve after I leave.  Like maybe a fake LoJack transmitter under the back seat (Ram back seat flips up easily).  Not sure how the locking mechanism would work, maybe electromagnetic with a switch under the dash.

Just an idea and any of you detail/fabricator types are welcome to take it and make it work.

Obviously doesn’t address the “what if the truck is stolen” issue but I don’t know if there is a way to adsolutely prevent thievery.

 

[coolwind57]

5 hours ago, Pete M said:

seems like a box bolted to the back wall behind the pass seat might be best.

This was the kind of stuff I was looking for.   This is likely where I'll mount mine.  I'll have to check ease of use on the passenger side, however.  With my Dakota seats, it might just end up being easier to get out and place weapon in a safe located behind the driver's seat.   I was hoping GrayWolf would chime in and maybe even provide a pic or description of his safe, which I recall him mentioning at one time.

 

57 minutes ago, Keyav8r said:

Something that I could easily stash the gun in before I go onsite and retrieve after I leave.

Yep.  Same scenerio here.  I just need a temporary stash site that has good combination of security and functionality that fits my use.  

 

I'm former law enforcement.  I'm good on laws and consequences of loss, but I'm specifically looking for some input and ideas from those whom are securing their weapons inside their MJs.  Would love to see what's working well for you guys.

[sinkrun]

1 hour ago, Keyav8r said:

I’m seeing more and more places where you can’t have a gun (or even a pocket knife, in some cases) on your person or in your vehicle anywhere on their premises.  They reserve the right to search your vehicle if you come on their premises (and they have several times).  Getting caught means you’re permanently banned from their property and possibly having a chat with local law enforcement authorities.  As I’m in industrial sales, getting permanently banned from my best customers is not a good thing.  On the other hand, there are areas I travel to or through where I would feel a lot more comfortable armed.

So what I’d like to have is a gun box/safe that doesn’t look like one and doesn’t have an obvious locking mechanism.  Something that I could easily stash the gun in before I go onsite and retrieve after I leave.  Like maybe a fake LoJack transmitter under the back seat (Ram back seat flips up easily).  Not sure how the locking mechanism would work, maybe electromagnetic with a switch under the dash.

Just an idea and any of you detail/fabricator types are welcome to take it and make it work.

Obviously doesn’t address the “what if the truck is stolen” issue but I don’t know if there is a way to adsolutely prevent thievery.

 

Would like to hear more about what places are searching your vehicle when your there and why you would or need to visit such places. If you do not care to share I understand.

[13 Legion]

10 minutes ago, sinkrun said:

Would like to hear more about what places are searching your vehicle when your there and why you would or need to visit such places. If you do not care to share I understand.

Not to steal Keyav8r’s answer to this but...

I carry as well. I live in Indiana but travel to work in Illinois ( non-reciprocal state) meaning they don’t recognize my carry permit. As long as I’m in my vehicle I’m good to go. If I exit ,my firearm has to be locked and secured. I’m in construction. I was working at Ohare... on the airfield to be exact.  I had to have a pass as well as be fingerprinted to enter gate. My car was subject to search and seizure of any firearm as well as any contraband regardless if I could lawfully carry. That’s where the issues come into play. 

[Keyav8r]

32 minutes ago, sinkrun said:

Would like to hear more about what places are searching your vehicle when your there and why you would or need to visit such places. If you do not care to share I understand.

Any power generating facility, including hydro, fossil and nuclear.  

U S Steel, Nucor Steel, Steel Dynamics, etc.

Practically any federal, state, county or city facility

Pratically any industrial plant

They all have published policies regarding items  banned from their property.  Usually it’s printed on the paperwork you sign to get a pass into the facility.

I go there to sell industrial equipment.  That’s where my income comes from.

Basically, in return for the right to enter the facility you must give them the right to search your vehicle. The search can be for loss prevention as well as for drugs, alcohol, weapons, etc.  

I have the right to refuse search of my vehicle just as they have the right to refuse entry to their facility.

Since I need to repeatedly enter these facilities to earn my income, I really don’t have an option other than to agree to their policies.

Not all facilities search every time you enter (some do), but there’s always one or more random searches each day and it’s a one strike and you’re out (permanently) kind of game.

I can guarantee you that there are plenty of the same policies in PA.

[Pete M]

55 minutes ago, coolwind57 said:

 I was hoping GrayWolf would chime in and maybe even provide a pic or description of his safe, which I recall him mentioning at one time.

 

you might need to send a PM as many members check in sporadically.   

[Eagle]

6 hours ago, sinkrun said:

Would like to hear more about what places are searching your vehicle when your there and why you would or need to visit such places. If you do not care to share I understand.

 

It's often places of employment.

 

The company I work for has a contract with my state's Department of Transportation. My current work assignment is on a construction project that's located inside a railroad maintenance yard, on property owned by the state. The state has a law prohibiting firearms, and so does the federal government. The site is under the double jurisdiction of the transit district police and Amtrak police. (Also the State Police, but they don't have a presence in the yard. They would come in only if called in.) There are only two entrances into the yard, both gated and manned. There are signs at both entrances that all vehicles are subject to search.

 

Likewise, as a veteran I get a lot of my medical care at a nearby VA hospital. There are signs at the entrances to the property that no firearms are allowed on the property, and that vehicles are subject to search.

 

Firearms are not allowed on U.S. Postal Service property. For most government agencies the prohibition is only in the buildings, but the Postal Service operates under a different section of federal law, and their prohibition includes parking lots. So ... park in a post office parking lot, and your vehicle is subject to search.

 

A few states have passed laws that don't allow employers to prohibit employees from having a firearm in a vehicle on the premises. In states that don't have such protection, emplyers can prohibit workers from having a gun at work and they can even extend that to storing a gun in the car while parked on company property. They include permission to search your car in the personnel manual, and you're required to sign that you accept this when you are hired. It's not a law, it's a contractual agreement between the worker and the employer.

[dvitha]

Postals, can not ban guns in your car. A supreme court ruled on that. However yes illegal to take in side of building. Any places that will not allow guns, are places that I don't want to be. Simple put Gun Free zones are area's you designated targets for criminals. All this anti 2nd amendment stuff. I never go to the VA even after I was in Marine Corps for 20 years.

I allow all of my 18 employees to carry, and if LTC to carry open. We even go to the firing range a few miles away to show off target practicing. I don't do business with those who don't allow LTC here in Texas.

[Jeep Driver]

Just to clarify-

 

Only handguns are banned from possession in a USPS building. 

Long guns are perfectly legal, I've shipped more than 40 rifles to FFLs over the counter at POs. 

 

Handguns are regularly shipped overnight from FFL to FFL through the USPS.

[Eagle]

2 hours ago, dvitha said:

Postals, can not ban guns in your car. A supreme court ruled on that.

 

 

Please provide the case citation, because I think you're wrong.

 

The usual law cited for firearms in federal facilities is 18 U.S. Code § 930 - Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities. But the Postal Service falls under a different law, 39 CFR 232.1. This says:

 

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§ 232.1 Conduct on postal property.

(a)Applicability. This section applies to all real property under the charge and control of the Postal Service, to all tenant agencies, and to all persons entering in or on such property. This section shall be posted and kept posted at a conspicuous place on all such property. This section shall not apply to -

(i) Any portions of real property, owned or leased by the Postal Service, that are leased or subleased by the Postal Service to private tenants for their exclusive use;

(ii) With respect to sections 232.1(h)(1) and 232.1(o), sidewalks along the street frontage of postal property falling within the property lines of the Postal Service that are not physically distinguishable from adjacent municipal or other public sidewalks, and any paved areas adjacent to such sidewalks that are not physically distinguishable from such sidewalks.

(b)Inspection, recording presence.

(1) Purses, briefcases, and other containers brought into, while on, or being removed from the property are subject to inspection. However, items brought directly to a postal facility's customer mailing acceptance area and deposited in the mail are not subject to inspection, except as provided by section 274 of the Administrative Support Manual. A person arrested for violation of this section may be searched incident to that arrest.

(2) Vehicles and their contents brought into, while on, or being removed from restricted nonpublic areas are subject to inspection. A prominently displayed sign shall advise in advance that vehicles and their contents are subject to inspection when entering the restricted nonpublic area, while in the confines of the area, or when leaving the area. Persons entering these areas who object and refuse to consent to the inspection of the vehicle, its contents, or both, may be denied entry; after entering the area without objection, consent shall be implied. A full search of a person and any vehicle driven or occupied by the person may accompany an arrest.

...

(l)Weapons and explosives. Notwithstanding the provisions of any other law, rule or regulation, no person while on postal property may carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for official purposes.

 

It's the "official purposes" clause that allows postal patrons to bring an unloaded firearm into a post office for mailing. As noted, under other laws only an FFL can mail a handgun. It's illegal for anyone, even with a carry permit, to carry anywhere on USPS property or to leave a firearm in a vehicle if the vehicle is parked on USPS property. That's what the law says. If the Supreme Court has ruled that this is unconstitutional and can't be enforced -- give us the citation. I know a bunch of firearms attorneys, and none has ever mentioned that this law has been ruled unenforceable.

[coolwind57]

So, where's everybody mounting their gun safes in their MJs?

haha.  I guess I concede the thread for the purpose of a more engaging topic.  But for others out there:  don't forget your ol' pal Coolwind57 if you have pics or good location/fabrication experience.

[Pete M]

lol.   

I would still bolt it to the back wall behind the pass seat.  our trucks are tiny and there's no space beneath the seats, no room in the glove boxes (unless you get a steel locking wrangler glove box), and I'd prefer not to have to get out of the truck to put it away.  still might be a pain if I have to pop the seat forward to access it though.  right behind the center console would be good for access, but it might be too visible.  

[dvitha]

I looked it up and they over turned it in 2015, that was big surprise to me since in 2013 they ruled you can leave in your car. It been that long since I looked in to that and I am wrong now. Guess I will park on the public street now when I go in to the post office here.

[Eagle]

8 hours ago, coolwind57 said:

So, where's everybody mounting their gun safes in their MJs?

haha.  I guess I concede the thread for the purpose of a more engaging topic.  But for others out there:  don't forget your ol' pal Coolwind57 if you have pics or good location/fabrication experience.

 

Sorry for my contribution to thread drift, but I felt I had to correct misinformation. The problem with bolting to the rear of the cab is that you're punching holes in a vertical wall, and that invites water in. If I were going to bolt in a safe (which would be a small handgun box, for me), I'd bolt it to the floor, set some silicone sealant around the bolts as you install the safe, and then seal the crap out of it from underneath after it's in place.