Renix with '95 head and '99 intake...

[Kickin’Chicken]

So I noticed my water pump making a bunch of noise. I got one but figured I would remove and replace the stock radiator to upgrade to an open system. Well, if I am gonna take the radiator off, why not do the head/intake/exhaust swap while I'm at it?

 

have any of you done this swap and if so what did you do to mate the renix TPS to the '99 throttle body?

 

TIA

[Kickin’Chicken]

Forgot to add that the exhaust manifold seems to have a leak in it, so..... may as well try to upgrade all of it. 

[Kickin’Chicken]

Can't believe I stumped the band with this one.....

[87MJTIM]

Cruiser has a write up on putting an HO head on a Renix motor.  www.cruiser54.com.  I've never done, so I could not comment on the issues someone may encounter.

 

I have watch several youtube videos about the intake swap.  Don't recall the issues those individual encountered.

 

Perhaps you could perform the same searches on the internet and find your answers.

[DirtyComanche]

I'm not sure with the later intake as the throttle body might be different than the earlier HO one?

 

I have pictures of how I put the Renix stuff on my earlier HO intake, I'd just have to dig them up.  It's fairly simple, most of the sensors just swap over to their news holes, the throttle cable has to be changed out to a HO one, if you have an automagic transmission you need to modify things to allow the TV cable to actually work, or actually pull the transmission apart to install the HO TV cable, the TPS requires some spacers/screws and a little filing of parts to work (there is a writeup in the DIY section).  You have to delete your EGR, so either use the HO header, plug the Renix one, or just crimp the pipe on the Renix one, then toss the EGR solenoid and junk.

 

The P/S pump and bracket setup is different too, IIRC.  I had lots of stuff on hand when I did it so it wasn't a big deal, of course I wound up milling my bracket so I could use a WJ pump too, but that's another story.

[Kickin’Chicken]

7 hours ago, 87MJTIM said:

Cruiser has a write up on putting an HO head on a Renix motor.  www.cruiser54.com.  I've never done, so I could not comment on the issues someone may encounter.

 

I have watch several youtube videos about the intake swap.  Don't recall the issues those individual encountered.

 

Perhaps you could perform the same searches on the internet and find your answers.

Thanks for the response. 

[Kickin’Chicken]

3 hours ago, DirtyComanche said:

I'm not sure with the later intake as the throttle body might be different than the earlier HO one?

 

I have pictures of how I put the Renix stuff on my earlier HO intake, I'd just have to dig them up.  It's fairly simple, most of the sensors just swap over to their news holes, the throttle cable has to be changed out to a HO one, if you have an automagic transmission you need to modify things to allow the TV cable to actually work, or actually pull the transmission apart to install the HO TV cable, the TPS requires some spacers/screws and a little filing of parts to work (there is a writeup in the DIY section).  You have to delete your EGR, so either use the HO header, plug the Renix one, or just crimp the pipe on the Renix one, then toss the EGR solenoid and junk.

 

The P/S pump and bracket setup is different too, IIRC.  I had lots of stuff on hand when I did it so it wasn't a big deal, of course I wound up milling my bracket so I could use a WJ pump too, but that's another story.

Thanks! I figured that if there was only one guy here who had done this swap, he would be you. Hahahaha. 

I found an adapter for my throttle body to a '99+ intake. Also found a company that bores out the renix TB and installs new butterfly, pin, spring, etc... 

 

Ive got a spare parts 2002 Grand Cherokee that I'm robbing the intake and power steering pump bracket off of. Should I get the pump as well?

[75sv1]

The 2002 intake should work. I have the latter intake on a '98 XJ. I do have an '03 WJ 4.0l motor that I was fitting into my MJ. Long story. I am going to put a stroker in now. Anyways, They PS pump should work. I have one in my XJ. I think there are two different versions on the latter intakes. On one of mine the throttle cable bracket has 3 bolts, like the earlier ones. One has two. The WJ did have a 'Power Intake' or such. I think HESSCO has an adapter kit for the HO TB to Rennix wiring.

[Kickin’Chicken]

20 minutes ago, 75sv1 said:

The 2002 intake should work. I have the latter intake on a '98 XJ. I do have an '03 WJ 4.0l motor that I was fitting into my MJ. Long story. I am going to put a stroker in now. Anyways, They PS pump should work. I have one in my XJ. I think there are two different versions on the latter intakes. On one of mine the throttle cable bracket has 3 bolts, like the earlier ones. One has two. The WJ did have a 'Power Intake' or such. I think HESSCO has an adapter kit for the HO TB to Rennix wiring.

Thanks. HESCO has a lot of interesting products. I thought about the plunge (going full HO, harness and all) but decided I want to keep the renix computer since it's supposedly more forgiving to upgrades - not to mention for nostalgia.

 

Off topic......what are they referring to when they say "get the RE coils" for front coil spring lift? I've searched Amazon and Google but found nothing.  

[cruiser54]

My 2 cents:

 

Total waste of time and money for little to no gain.. . 

Ever see the dyno results for the intake swap?

Bore the Renix throttle body to 60mm. http://www.strokedjeep.com/renix t-body.html

Do the CPS advance mod. http://cruiser54.com/?p=127

Eliminate the "D" crush in the downpipe. 

Make sure your distributor is indexed. http://cruiser54.com/?p=68

Do the valve cover mod.  http://cruiser54.com/?p=131

 

A little insight on Renix versus HO:

HO myth buster

Renix in 90 made 182 HP. HO in 91 made 190 HP. That's 8 HP difference. 

HO only made more HP than Renix at higher RPMs and not a bit more torque. HO had a 58 mm throttle body versus a 52 mm throttle body on a Renix. That’s 20% more air available through the HO throttle body. The HO also had a better design header. See where I'm going with this? 

It’s only a 4% horsepower increase…..

The whole 8HP was not mostly from the head, but from the bigger TB and better exhaust manifold.

Put a 60mm TB from www.strokedjeep.com on your present manifold using the Renix head, eliminate the "crush" in your headpipe with proper re-routing, and go for it. 

HO stands for Highly Overrated.
__________________
 

 

 

 

 

[Kickin’Chicken]

12 minutes ago, cruiser54 said:

My 2 cents:

 

Total waste of time and money for little to no gain.. . 

Ever see the dyno results for the intake swap?

Bore the Renix throttle body to 60mm. http://www.strokedjeep.com/renix t-body.html

Do the CPS advance mod. http://cruiser54.com/?p=127

Eliminate the "D" crush in the downpipe. 

Make sure your distributor is indexed. http://cruiser54.com/?p=68

Do the valve cover mod.  http://cruiser54.com/?p=131

 

A little insight on Renix versus HO:

HO myth buster

Renix in 90 made 182 HP. HO in 91 made 190 HP. That's 8 HP difference. 

HO only made more HP than Renix at higher RPMs and not a bit more torque. HO had a 58 mm throttle body versus a 52 mm throttle body on a Renix. That’s 20% more air available through the HO throttle body. The HO also had a better design header. See where I'm going with this? 

It’s only a 4% horsepower increase…..

The whole 8HP was not mostly from the head, but from the bigger TB and better exhaust manifold.

Put a 60mm TB from www.strokedjeep.com on your present manifold using the Renix head, eliminate the "crush" in your headpipe with proper re-routing, and go for it. 

HO stands for Highly Overrated.
__________________
 

 

 

 

 

Ha! That sounds like a much better approach than buying al that other stuff for an 8 HP gain!  Is there a header that you'd suggest to improve exhaust in addition to eliminating the "crush" in my head pipe or was THAT what your suggestion (replace stock exhaust manifold) ?

[mjeff87]

1 hour ago, cruiser54 said:

 

HO stands for Highly Overrated.
__________________
 

Uh oh......now ya did it.  Activated the Hornbrod signal

 

 

 

 

[HOrnbrod]

2 hours ago, mjeff87 said:

Uh oh......now ya did it.  Activated the Hornbrod signal

 

I just ignore this crap now. It's just endless canned repetitions of the same tired BS over and over ad nauseaum. Like a broken record....

[DirtyComanche]

12 hours ago, Kickin’Chicken said:

Thanks! I figured that if there was only one guy here who had done this swap, he would be you. Hahahaha. 

I found an adapter for my throttle body to a '99+ intake. Also found a company that bores out the renix TB and installs new butterfly, pin, spring, etc... 

 

Ive got a spare parts 2002 Grand Cherokee that I'm robbing the intake and power steering pump bracket off of. Should I get the pump as well?

 

Lots of guys here have done the swap, just not everyone chimes in.

 

IMHO it makes more financial sense to use the HO intake and TB than having the Renix one bored out, assuming you have access to HO parts for cheap.  Since you've got a WJ to steal stuff off of, I'd use that intake and throttle body.  The only real hurdle of using the HO TB is adapting the Renix TPS to it, which is really just some fiddling around and finding the correct bolts.  Will it make much more power than the Renix one?  Probably not much, but the design is at least theoretically better.  There is some other complications with using that later intake, IIRC, as the fuel rail was quite different due to them going to a returnless setup in those years (fuel pressure regulator is in the pump).  You can also go to the MAP sensor that is on the throttle body with the later setup, which IMHO is a cleaner and more reliable install; there is a writeup or thread on this here somewhere (probably started by Hornbrod, I know he uses that setup).  The HO throttle body also uses a much more normal air intake, so if you want to build your own intake, switch to a different filter/box setup, or get an aftermarket intake it's much easier to find one that will fit.

 

Also, the Renix intake WILL interfere with some of the aftermarket headers, as the Renix intake is very low and upturns the runners before going into the head.  The whole reason I wound up going to the HO intake was that the header I had would never have come close to clearing the Renix intake.  The factory HO header will not interfere with the Renix intake like that, it just might need some grinding on the flange like I mentioned earlier.

 

I don't know if that power steering pump is worth using, or any different than the Renix one.  Most likely it's more or less exactly the same, except it might have holes in the pulley to make accessing the bolts easier.  In which case either use it or throw it on the shelf as a spare.  I should have specified I used the V8 WJ pump as it was factory ported for use with the hydraulic cooling fan setup they had, so it's a great pump if you've got hydro assist steering; however the pulley offset is different between it and the typical XJ 4L stuff so you either have to swap the pulleys or mill the bracket down.

[75sv1]

As for the +'00 intake, I've followed various threads on it, since the earlier 2000s. Some lost power. One that was dynoed reported +5hp.  There is a write up of I think 30 HP gain. There were other changes and injectors changed etc. No believable to me.  I think earlier makes Pre 95 you need to space out the PS Pump.

    As for headers, I did have a Pacesetter on my MJ. It was the Ceramic coated. It did OK. The coating was still good after two years. I do have a Clifford on my MJ. I haven't run it. Black Ceramic coating. I'll probably replace it with a Doug Thorley.I have a ceramic coated one on my XJ. I think only the Pace Setter and Borla are CARB certified. Clifford has the bung for the EGR. That is another issue with swapping the intake if in an emission State. I did think of welding in the EGR boss from the RENIX intake to a latter one. Not in an emission state so moved on from that.

         I think doing the exhaust and boring the TB would help more. The RENIX might not have the HP, but it has near the same torque. My Comanche with 5spd seemed peppier than either of my '98 XJs with Auto. I think it got better mpg too.  Also, most of your changes on the intake side won't see a bit difference, till you improve the exhaust. Walker makes a down pipe, without the dent, I think. Also Adi-Mix.

[Kickin’Chicken]

On 1/12/2018 at 6:50 AM, 75sv1 said:

your changes on the intake side won't see a bit difference, till you improve the exhaust. Walker makes a down pipe, without the dent, I think. Also Adi-Mix.

Thanks for answering that!

[Kickin’Chicken]

On 1/11/2018 at 6:11 PM, DirtyComanche said:

 The factory HO header will not interfere with the Renix intake like that, it just might need some grinding on the flange like I mentioned earlier.

Trying to understand ^^this^^.

Are you saying a factory HO header will work in a renix head and intake as long as some grinding is performed on the renix intake? If so that seems like the easiest route. 

[cruiser54]

On 1/11/2018 at 6:28 AM, Kickin’Chicken said:

Ha! That sounds like a much better approach than buying al that other stuff for an 8 HP gain!  Is there a header that you'd suggest to improve exhaust in addition to eliminating the "crush" in my head pipe or was THAT what your suggestion (replace stock exhaust manifold) ?

I've used those ebay ones with the bellows on them.

If your exh man isn't cracked, leave it and have a new downpipe made.

 

If the exh man is bad, get one for a 92. Have an O2 sensor bung welded into it. Then have a muffler shop make the downpipe for you to match the header to the exhaust. 

[Kickin’Chicken]

50 minutes ago, cruiser54 said:

 

 

If the exh man is bad, get one for a 92. Have an O2 sensor bung welded into it. Then have a muffler shop make the downpipe for you to match the header to the exhaust. 

Is '92 the only year or will '92-'95 all work?

 

 

edit: just noticed you said get one FOR a '92 (as in a new one), not "from" a '92...

[DirtyComanche]

On 1/14/2018 at 2:08 PM, Kickin’Chicken said:

Trying to understand ^^this^^.

Are you saying a factory HO header will work in a renix head and intake as long as some grinding is performed on the renix intake? If so that seems like the easiest route. 

 

If it doesn't clear, grind the flange on the header.  It's just a bit wider on the HO than the Renix, IIRC, and there is probably some variations in construction of them over the years and OEM vs aftermarket.

 

Walker makes a downpipe for the HO.  It isn't very inexpensive ($40ish US), but I can't say if it is of decent quality or not but it looks like it doesn't have the clearance dent.  With that downpipe you should be able to just throw the O2 sensor in it, but I would confirm that with somebody who has done it as the wires might not be long enough.  If you have one made without the dent be damn certain the yoke on the front axle won't eat it if the suspension is on the bumpstops; I could show you what the one in my MJ looks like from just that happening when the PO swapped a real front axle in...

 

Walker downpipe: http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=135706&cc=1180112&jsn=2160

[cruiser54]

17 hours ago, Kickin’Chicken said:

Is '92 the only year or will '92-'95 all work?

 

 

edit: just noticed you said get one FOR a '92 (as in a new one), not "from" a '92...

No. They're the same 91 to 96. Here's where you many need to grind. No big deal.

 

 

[cruiser54]

On 1/11/2018 at 8:35 AM, HOrnbrod said:

 

I just ignore this crap now. It's just endless canned repetitions of the same tired BS over and over ad nauseaum. Like a broken record....

Actually, it is not BS. It's been proven time and time again. 

And each time someone asks, they need answers. They might not have seen this info before. 

[HOrnbrod]

Quote

cruiser54

My 2 cents:

Total waste of time and money for little to no gain.. . 

Ever see the dyno results for the intake swap?

 

Yep. Right round 12HP on an HO. Just dug up my old dyno results.  I guess you mean total waste of time and money for a Renix. 

 

Quote

cruiser54

Eliminate the "D" crush in the downpipe. 

 

Eliminating that little dimple might hurt performance.  Seeing this video makes me wonder how much good my headers are.  

 

 

[gogmorgo]

On January 15, 2018 at 12:22 AM, DirtyComanche said:

 

Walker makes a downpipe for the HO.  It isn't very inexpensive ($40ish US), but I can't say if it is of decent quality or not but it looks like it doesn't have the clearance dent.  With that downpipe you should be able to just throw the O2 sensor in it, but I would confirm that with somebody who has done it as the wires might not be long enough.  If you have one made without the dent be damn certain the yoke on the front axle won't eat it if the suspension is on the bumpstops; I could show you what the one in my MJ looks like from just that happening when the PO swapped a real front axle in...

 

Walker downpipe: http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=135706&cc=1180112&jsn=2160

I've got a Walker downpipe on my MJ. Quality is similar to all the other walker pre-bent pipes. The lack of clearance dent hasn't really caused any interference that I've noticed, despite my somewhat saggy 530,000km original springs and loading the truck down on rough roads.

I got the pipe for a '93 XJ not the one linked. It looked to me that it would be exactly the same as the -'92 except for having just a 2-1/4 straight pipe outlet instead of the cat flange, which made things easier for me at the time. And I don't know if this is related to the '93-ness or not and maybe won't apply to the earlier version, but the brace that attaches the pipe to the trans xmember isn't the u-shape channel that my MJ's original downpipe had, but is just a piece of flat bar, which doesn't sit as well in its rubber block, meaning the exhaust does move around a bit more than it should, sometimes bouncing off the crossmember and floorboards, generally only during startup. I've had passengers say they've felt it banging against the floor with their feet. The next time I'm in there I'm going to try to address it.