How to drive on ice and snow?

[1989 comanche mj]

I tow my TJ up north to North Carolina every winter and rent a cabin and cruise around.  (I don't take my MJ because the turning radius is no good on the tight dead end trails)  And the TJ has a full cage and more interior room.

 

I drive all over in the snow and didn't have problems in the past, the roads were empty.  But last year they were packed, snow and ice came in heavy around rush hour.

 

I was sliding all over and went off the road several times.  The Jeep has a powertrax in the front, true trac in the back 456 gears and 33 mud tires.  5 speed 4 liter.  I am pretty sure the locker in the front was causing it to slide all over.  I tried lowering air pressure in the tires with uncertian results.  I only used 2 wheel drive.  In the past with just a posi in the rear it seemed to do ok or better than now.

 

Will lower air pressure help?  How about tire siping, and does anyone do it anymore? 

[gogmorgo]

Have fun with those rock-hard mud tires.

If you want any kind of traction at all on snow or ice, you NEED proper winter tires. If you're wanting something a little more aggressive, a lot of modern all-terrains are winter-rated (look for the snowpeak symbol for an actual tested rating, M+S only means they look kinda like they might work), and I've been running a set on both my daily drivers for the last few years. AT's won't get you around on snow and ice quite as well as a purpose-designed winter tire will, but they're more than good enough to keep me out of trouble in our winters... at least so long as I'm not driving like an idiot.

 

If you don't want to spring for another set of tires, well, there's not much more you'll be able to do, except slow waaaaay down. If you can't keep the back end under you in 2wd you may be better off in 4x4, but beware of the understeer, and remember that if you're going too fast to maintain traction under steering and braking, 4x4 won't help you out much if at all. As for steering and braking and staying on the road, if you've got your wheels locked up you won't stop, and if they're turned too hard you won't turn. Gentle inputs are the best, and if they don't work it means you've gone too far and you need to back off. Really though as far as actual driving is concerned, we can pitch advise at you from behind our keyboards all we want, but only practise will teach you. You may need to unlearn some bad habits too. Watch a few videos online about controlling understeer, oversteer, and traction losses.

[desbennett004]

^^^ What he said. Definitely look for the Snow Peak Rating on tires. I run General Grabber AT2 on my XJ all year round. Not as good as a true winter tire, but I don't have to swap them. They can be studded to.

 

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[Incommando]

Unless your M/Ts are heavily siped they are your main problem.

[Pete M]

plus tire traction reduces with age (aka: they get harder with time). 

[WyoCherokee]

Mud Tires and Snow do not mix. Your rear tru-trac shouldnt be that much of a nousance, however if you only ran it in 2wd with the lim slip, on a slick surface it will act almost like a sled. If both tires cannot get proper traction(ice and mud tires), then the whole rear end will slide until 1 tire gains traction enough to transfer tourque to that wheel. and if you say you were in 2wd, your front autolocker will not have made any impact. Tire pressure also plays a huge roll in snow/ice traction. Some shops do still sipe tires. But i would invest in a set of good chains if you intend to keep the tires. I have had great luck with the Cooper STT MAXX in snow/ice conditions without comprising mud/sand/rock performance.

[1989 comanche mj]

OK what pressure should I run? 

 

And what does siping or studding cost?   My tires are studable.

 

Keep in mind I am in Florida, can't get siping or studding here.  I usually encounter 3 days of snow when I am up there, not worth it to change tires.  And I need the mud tires for the trails.

[desbennett004]

Most tire shops won't stud used tires, just because you get little rocks stuck in the stud holes, and apparently it wrecks their stud gun.

 

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[Eagle]

Snow is the opposite of sand -- you DON'T want soft tires to try to "float" over the surface, you want the tires to dig down through the snow to something solid. Higher pressures (street pressures) are good. Narrow tires are better in snow than narrow tires, but ... you've got what you've got.

[gogmorgo]

Last time I checked, the tire chains were usually charging around $20/tire for studding, and I want to say that siping was about the same but I wasn't all that interested in it.. But I'll echo what was said above, good luck finding a shop that will put studs in a tire that's seen any pavement at all. It's the first I've heard about damaging the stud gun — what I was told was that the micro-grit between the stud and the rubber will slowly chafe away at the rubber and eventually push the stud though the tire. Also unless you drive almost exclusively on ice (i.e. winter roads), I wouldn't recommend studs anyway, as they will actually reduce traction on any surface they don't bite into, like dry or wet pavement. Not only that, they tear the $#!& out of the roads and are usually illegal for part of the year unless you live somewhere that rarely sees snow, like Florida where they are always illegal.

As far as tire pressure goes, you want normal street pressure, keeping the contact patch flat so the tread can grab the road... or at least as well as those mud tires can.

 

^^^ What he said. Definitely look for the Snow Peak Rating on tires. I run General Grabber AT2 on my XJ all year round. Not as good as a true winter tire, but I don't have to swap them. They can be studded to.

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Heh. Both my drivers have Grabber AT2's on them, although on my Niva it was because it was literally the only AT tire my preferred tire shop could find in a small enough size to fit. Only times I've ever been stuck was in snow so deep the body was sitting on top with the wheels paddling uselessly at nothing. That or I found myself with only two options, pushing over a bunch of 16" diameter spruce trees, or reversing back up what was essentially a small neaer-veritcal cliff... oops. On ice they're not as good as a proper winter tire, no, but they're good enough I can usually keep pointed where I want to be pointed, which isn't to say I don't ever find myself sideways... Eventually you stop caring about being a little bit sideways and realize there's no point wasting energy fighting the sideways and just embrace the sideways. Staying on the throttle (within reason) and some opposite lock to gently bring it back straight works a hell of a lot better than coming right off the throttle and snapping the other direction.

[WyoCherokee]

Invest in a set of Tire chains. that would be your cheapest option. Since you do not live in  a snowy climate, the installation of studs will do more harm than good. That way if you carry a set of chains, you can keep them forever, through multiple sets of tires.

OK what pressure should I run? 

 

And what does siping or studding cost?   My tires are studable.

 

Keep in mind I am in Florida, can't get siping or studding here.  I usually encounter 3 days of snow when I am up there, not worth it to change tires.  And I need the mud tires for the trails.

[Pete M]

tire chains are not street-legal in every state. 

[HOrnbrod]

tire chains are not street-legal in every state. 

 

Looked it up and one of those states is FL. The others are Hawaii, Missouri, New Hampshire, Vermont, and Washington, D.C. Weird...........

[desbennett004]

Tire cables?

 

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[johnj92131]

When we get snow in the local mountain roads, the Calif. Highway Patrol will close all roads to all traffic without chains on the tires.  Nothing else is acceptable. 

 

4 or 5 years ago when traveling at Christmas from Albequerque to Flagstaff on I-40 after the road was just reopend to all traffic, I was amazed to see how many cars and SUV's were in the ditches by the side of the road.  Simply because people seemed to think 4 wheel drive was the answer to snow and icy roads.  It is not.  Sudden or even normal movements will send you off in a different direction with no control what so ever.  Anti Lock Brake systemts can help a little, but you have to understand that you have almost no traction or control on ice.

[yxmj]

With all do respect you don't need studs or chains or cables or a ball of grandma's special traction yarn.....

 

The conditions you say you are encountering are a MILDER version of what I drive 6 months of the year.

 

The first post you say you keep sliding off the road.......sliding with your foot on the brake probably..... 

 

When I sent my wife and daughters out in the snow for the first time my speech was this...."Jeep and I have given you the best 4x4 in the world.....but it all goes away and everybody is equal as soon as your foot touches that brake pedal"

 

Here from your brief description are the top tips I would give

 

1) Don't drive in 4x4 unless you actually have to....it gives you an exaggerated sense of control....sometimes you need to feel the road in order to drive it correctly.

 

2) If your front end is locked it could be part of the problem.....my YJ front has a locker....my simple instructions/warning for those who are lucky enough to get a chance to drive it is the same I will give to you " Be careful were you point the grill....cuz it will go there....quickly"

 

3) Learn to drive your brakes first......in 2wd take a test run.....slam on the brakes.....feather the brakes......slowly push the brakes in......see how the vehicle reacts and feels.....in the end YOU are the driver....the jeep the tires the brakes....there just along for the ride you take them on... :thumbsup:

 

. :MJ 1: .  :Canadaflag: