Quite The Conundrum

[ftpiercecracker1]

Okay fellas here's the low down. I have been wanting to build a stroker for my comanche ever since i bought it. I saved and researched and saved some more, finally i had the necessary parts and money to accomplish my goal. Found the shop i wanted to use and pulled the trigger, however it has been a little over 8 months and nothing has been done on said motor. I knew as soon as i decided to use this shop i was in for a long wait, but due to their outstanding reputation for producing the best engines around i was willing to wait my turn, and i still am. As of this moment i have $2100 into the motor and that is my final budget figure. The stroker, if i continue with that path will consume all of said $2100, leaving me with nothing to fix my current issues like DW, squealing a/c, and a multitude of other items that need to be bought, like E- brake cables, condensor, a/c dryer, and window seals to name a few.

 

 

If you managed to read all of that, here is the final question. If you had $2100 and a bone stock comanche what would you rather but your money towards? I would appreciate non sarcastic answers, as this is something i have had great difficulty dealing with.

 

If i do not use the 2100 to build the stroker my plan is to use it to build the lift kit on the DIY section of this site, buy the tires i want https://www.treadwri...wler-m-t-p.aspx , do an axle swap, fix all my issues previously mentioned and if there is money left over and i can afford it, a rear gear to 4.10s

 

 

thanks for all your help fellas.

[gogmorgo]

If the truck runs, and you need/want to drive it, I'd put money into fixing driveability issues. It might mean you'll have to wait another 8+ months once you've saved up again for the stroker, but a great engine doesn't do any good in a truck you can't drive.

Either way, you'll likely end up doing both in the end, so minus the amount of time lost going to the back of the queue at the shop, does it really matter what order you do it in?

[87Warrior]

Personally, I would build/fix the truck first and enjoy it for awhile. While building them is fun, DRIVING them is even more fun.

[jpdriver1]

Personally, I would build/fix the truck first and enjoy it for awhile. While building them is fun, DRIVING them is even more fun.

x2 --- went this route with both of mine --- as long as it runs, drive it, get to know it and then beef the engine/trans

[ftpiercecracker1]

And there in lies (lays?) the problem, its not running. I gutted the truck, powertrain wise, because there was a mix up on whether the donor engine i bought was the same as mine. So instead of having a perfectly operational comanche while the engine was being built, i tore mine down to brass tacks and there it sits.

 

I have been thinking exactly what you guys are more and more. My plan for tomorrow is to go and talk with my machinist and have him give me a itemized list of what everything is going to cost me. From the moment he lays his hands on it to the moment its at home sitting on an engine stand. If he says he won't be able to give me such a list for another week or two, OR the money left over from the build is to little to cover the other expenses i will need to take care of i will be calling it quits on the stroker, at least for now.

 

It feels like an eternity since i last got to drive my MJ.

[SW86]

tough call. at this point though, id probably just stick with getting it stroked over. i mean whats the point of throwing more money into another donor motor, trans, all that, when in the end youll still want the stroker.

 

HOWEVER, if the motor job costs more then your willing/wanting to spend, don't. spend it on fxing current probelms and getting that donor powertrain. again though your always going to come back around to the stroker in the end..... plus your in TN, pull a parts are cheap as hell to get parts from

[ftpiercecracker1]

pull a parts are cheap as hell to get parts from

 

LIES!! (soap box time) :soap box:

 

In my particular area, there are a bunch of salvage yards, 8+. But they should be prosecuted for highway robbery, $50 for a broken mirror, $75 for a rusty gas tank, $250 for a dented, scratched, paint faded bed. I absolutely HATE the salvage yards around here, bunch of non english speaking crooks, the whole lot of em. There isnt an emoticon that can effectively convey my feelings towards them.

 

On a brighter note however, I have, after many years, finally found the one rose among the thorns. Express Pull and Save, its a bit of a hop, skip and a jump from me but well worth it. 100% customer oriented, extremely well run, and prices so low i nearly blacked out when i first called them.

 

 

 

 

Mean while back on the farm,

 

I still have the transmission and t-case all together, acctually still mated they are just sitting in the barn. Its just the engine bay that has been gutted (still have all that too) and motor tore completely down. If things go south with the stroker i was hoping to find a 4.0 for cheap, say 500? that i could just drop in and go.

 

If the stroker doesnt work out. . .

 

$500 for a used 4.0

$700 for lift

$600 for tires

= 2100 - 1800

 

= $300 left over

 

 

 

I dropped off my "new" crankshaft and some alternative connecting rods just a few hours ago. Wensday will be the soonest that we can sit down and really figure this out, itemized expense list start to finish, which connecting rods do i want to use, and so on and so forth.

[mpace6a]

1. Buy Totaled ZJ

2. Remove 318 from ZJ

3. Put said 318 in Comanche

4. ????

5. Drive MJ everywhere.

 

Personally, Thats what i would do. Granted my MJ is an 86 so ther 4.0 doesnt quite fit right, but with the 318 you gain power, lose weight. Plus you can then part out/scrap remaining ZJ parts, and use the money to go towards a lift, tires, etc. And, as a bonus, several ZJ steering components will go on the MJ and beef it up a bit.

[relyt120]

On a brighter note however, I have, after many years, finally found the one rose among the thorns. Express Pull and Save, its a bit of a hop, skip and a jump from me but well worth it. 100% customer oriented, extremely well run, and prices so low i nearly blacked out when i first called them.

 

:agree: I live like 2 mins from them, go there practically every weekend

[ftpiercecracker1]

1. Buy Totaled ZJ

2. Remove 318 from ZJ

3. Put said 318 in Comanche

4. ????

5. Drive MJ everywhere.

 

 

thats not a bad idea, find one mated to an AX-15, snag the harness, accessories, and what not. The only thing, i think, that would have to be modded would be the engine mounts. And a bigger rad, not sure about fire wall clearance though.

 

But did you choose a ZJ 318 specifically because it would bolt to the existing transmission? Cause there are a lot of other powerplants out there, i even did a little research on doing an LS1 swap. Just for sh*ts and giggles.

[terrawombat]

The 318 won't bolt to any of the transmissions used in the MJ.

 

The 318 swap into the MJ is a pretty massive undertaking. I'm doing a 360 swap into one of my MJs (same block, just bigger bore and longer stroke).

[ftpiercecracker1]

ZJs never ran the AX-15?

[terrawombat]

Only in 93 behind the 4.0 liter six cylinder and those are RARE.

[ftpiercecracker1]

Only in 93 behind the 4.0 liter six cylinder and those are RARE.

 

don't you know it. Either way, if was to go with a v8 i'm pretty sure i could find something better.

 

One of you is probably already thinking, why did you not do a V8 in the first place. How many times have you heard about people swapping a v8 into their jeep? I know i can't count that high. I like the uniqueness of the stroker and the fact when/if its done it will be A. a total sleeper and B. be as easy to drop in as a stock 4.0

[terrawombat]

Manual transmission options for the Chrysler 318/360 V8's are best found in the Dodge Ram & Dakota pickup trucks.

 

There are plenty of Chevy V8 swaps in Jeeps, but there are surprisingly few Chrysler V8 swaps.

[mvusse]

And a lot of the V8 swaps into Comanches and Cherokees have cooling problems.

[ftpiercecracker1]

And a lot of the V8 swaps into Comanches and Cherokees have cooling problems.

 

 

indeed ;) ,

 

actually, the stroker is giving me the same concerns as well. I would say that if you had a decient HD 2 row radiator, ZJ HD clutch fan and effective hood vents, cooling would probably be a non issue even for a V8

[mpace6a]

I think with hood vents, electric fans, and what not, cooling issues could be well combated, especially with a good rad. But doesnt Novak make a bellhousing adapter to mate the AX15 to a 318/360, and possibly a 350 as well?

[TheJeepNut]

This could give you some food for thought:

 

http://www.jeeps-offroad.com/showthread.php?t=4740

[ftpiercecracker1]

I know there has got to be some useful information in that link, but i am not knowledgeable enough to interpret all of that technical data. :help:

 

Doesnt Novak make a bellhousing adapter to mate the AX15 to a 318/360, and possibly a 350 as well?

 

 

Yes, novak makes an adapter to go from the AX-15 to a SBC and just about every other engine/transmission combination on earth as well.

[gogmorgo]

Basically, from my quick scan of the posts, it looks like they say there are three major obstacles to bolting engines to transmissions.

A. Bellhousing to transmission bolt pattern

B. Bellhousing to engine bolt pattern

C. Input shaft/bellhousing length.

 

Parts 1 and 2 deal with A and B at the same time. 1 is a list of transmission that share bell-tranny bolt pattern, and then a list of all the OEM bells that will bolt up and the engines they'll bolt to. 2 goes aftermarket for more unique combinations.

Part 3 starts by bringing up obstacle C and list ways of making things work if it's going to be an issue. Then there's a list of gear ratios each transmission from 1 has, which may be useful if you're swapping trannies.

 

The rest of the posts from Greg in that thread deal with individual and possibly odd issues you might encounter if you go for a somewhat eccentric combination, and there's stuff about mating transfer cases too. Might be useful to scan through it, but there's information about just about everything in there. Makes my head hurt just thinking about what could be in the other 10 pages...

 

I'd just stick with the info in part 1 to find something that works with your transmission with minimal modification if you're still planning on swapping in the stroker at some point. If it's only temporary, does it matter what it is?

[ftpiercecracker1]

:cry: sad face, pretty sure its not going to work, there goes 8 months of waiting.

 

 

 

Block work:

 

Bore & hone - $130

Recondition crankshaft - $125

Recondition rods - $75

wash tank - $35

R&R pistons - $40

Block Deck - $100

Line hone - $110

 

 

 

Head work:

 

Valve grind - $175

Mill the head - $80

Valve guides - $85

Port & polish - $150

 

 

 

Engine Parts:

 

pistons

rings

rod bearings

main bearings

gasket set

oil pump

timing set

camshaft

cam bearings

+ push rods

______________________

 

$600 (approxiately)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Other, yet still required:

 

Dyno tune - $450

Assembly balance - $185

 

All totaled it comes to $2,338 and this is a conservative estimate. $2,500 is a much more appropirate budget. I will be talking with him again tomorrow and probably be asking for a refund. I guess its all in the :fine print:

[mountainman]

And you havent factored in management and tuning either. Stock ECU won't run the bigger engine properly.

I mean, with so many other wheeling machines out there having less HP than our 4.0s have, i don't know why people spend so much money building strokers for these. :dunno:

200 HP and 225 torque is no joke.

These toyotatards wheel with 90 hp and 130 tq. and they put tons and 40s on with that much HP. lol

 

Its your rig and your money, but id say clean it up and maybe put a slightly bigger cam in it and put it back together and drive it.

As has been said.. more enjoyable to drive than sitting there.

[ftpiercecracker1]

And you havent factored in management and tuning either. Stock ECU won't run the bigger engine properly.

I mean, with so many other wheeling machines out there having less HP than our 4.0s have, i don't know why people spend so much money building strokers for these. :dunno:

200 HP and 225 torque is no joke.

These toyotatards wheel with 90 hp and 130 tq. and they put tons and 40s on with that much HP. lol

 

Its your rig and your money, but id say clean it up and maybe put a slightly bigger cam in it and put it back together and drive it.

As has been said.. more enjoyable to drive than sitting there.

 

 

 

 

Fortunately the stock ECU will manage a stroker perfectly fine, after a few miles the computer will relearn how to manage the newly found displacement. Forced induction is where you run into problems, Stock ECU Renix or OBD doesnt know how to interpret boost pressure.

 

and those toytards you speak of, are running planetery gears low enough to make a tractor look like a dragster, double transfercases, and probably have a max speed of 5mph. Aint no fun in that, in my humble opinion. Its is true you can spend you life savings building a stroker. A guy i was going to buy an AW4 from a few months ago built probably over a dozen strokers in the past couple years, his spent 18,000 on his latest one. Its a turbocharged 4.7 liter that puts out a little over 500HP and something like 623 ft/lbs. According to him its the second most powerful jeep 4.0 stroker to be built, second only to 505 performance's stroker. He says it will melt the tires at 60mph, and the best part is that its in a comanche. :brows:

 

he sent me some pictures but i have long since deleted them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I will build a stroker eventually, don't know when. But you can bet your sweet @$$ i will, count on it. :chillin:

[ftpiercecracker1]

Now that i know the stroker motor has been temporarily set aside, I have to determine my next best plan of action, since i still have a engineless comanche sitting in my yard. Should I find used 4.0 a plop it in? If so, should i trust a junkyard? This would be the very cheapest route, I can get the entire drivetrain for less than $250 Or is there another powerplant alternative that is fairly inexpensive? To be honest i can't think of one. I think my best option is to find a 4.0 off of craigslist, realitivly low miles that somebody pulled to do a SBC swap.

 

$500 is my top dollar for an engine of any kind, and it has to be 100% issue free.