Receiver hitch

[JACKED88]

So is this to say the ball is back in my court now? If so, your going to have to send me everything you have. Be it a program a water jet can read or sample pcs that can be duplicated. Ideally both.

 

Let me know what you wanna do.

 

Robert

[JACKED88]

BUMP ...... Still have access to water jet. Waiting on a reply from TrerraWombat. (Need proven to fit samples and program for water jet)

 

 

Robert

 

 

TerraWombat ..... we aughta talk. How bout sending me a p/m with your phone number?

[terrawombat]

E-mail would work best. I just moved to Maryland and the cell phone service at my new place of residence is non-existent - might have to finally say goodbye to AT&T and hello to Verizon (yuck).

 

Anyway I can most likely send you the design, but it's on my computer that is attached to my CNC plasma machine back at my shop in NJ so you can see the logistical issues I have with that right now. I'll be heading back to NJ this weekend so I should be able to grab it then.

 

I'll send you a PM with my contact information.

[Jeep Driver]

The highest stresses occur around the bolt hole furthest towards the rear of the truck. The above screenshot shows deflection and I turned the "deformation" factor up WAY high because it looked goofy. The actual total maximum deformation is less than a tenth of an inch. I just did a static load of 1200 lb. on the tongue, which is the maximum recommended tongue weight for a Class IV hitch (this is designed to mimic a Class III hitch). Even with that loading, the maximum stresses were well under the yield stress for A36 steel. I'll run some more simulations when I get home and I'm actually near a computer with a 23" monitor, rather than on this 10" netbook riding in a car!

 

 

 

Wow! you guys are blowing this way out of proportion...........

 

Class three is rated at 500lbs tongue and 5000lbs gross. Class three is over rated for the MJ in a practical sense.

 

1200lbs will never be applied........if loaded correctly 400lbs will not be applied in most cases........typical 12' UT or 20' boat etc...

 

 

I used to install for U-haul many years ago and the Drawtite design you guys are working here will is more than adequate.

 

I'll be fabing my own over the winter.

 

 

Also consider the frame you are attaching it to.

 

Scott

[terrawombat]

If you want to call basic engineering principals blowing it out of proportion, then yes, I was. I don't like to just copy designs and automatically assume that because it worked, so will the copy. I was also intending to sell these at one point, so if I didn't do my homework and design it properly, I would have slandered my name and reputation.

 

Both the Draw-tite and U-haul hitches have inherent design flaws that could easily be fixed to make a much more robust and reliable product. That was my intent when I was "blowing it out of proportion."

[Jeep Driver]

Others can decide for themselves........I'm not here to argue with an engineer.

 

But then.........

 

Start with the inherent flaws of the frame it's attached to then.

 

The premise of the test you performed is flawed because it does not look at the whole picture and over engineering one portion of a complex equation does not a problem solve.

 

Also look at gearing, horse power, weight distribution, weight of vehicle to weight of cargo/trailer, braking, trailer braking, transmission etc....

 

Whether it be Reese or DrawTite or any other manufacturer would have considered all these factors.

 

Also a ClassIV is a completely different animal........not anything like the ClassIII you are testing. ClassIV is chassis mounted in the bed much like a fifth-wheel but uses a 3" ball.

 

 

There is more here that some kind of Cad test program of one portion of the whole.

[terrawombat]

Others can decide for themselves........I'm not here to argue with an engineer.

 

Well, then you probably shoulda just stopped there...

 

But then.........

 

Start with the inherent flaws of the frame it's attached to then.

 

The premise of the test you performed is flawed because it does not look at the whole picture and over engineering one portion of a complex equation does not a problem solve.

 

I will agree that the MJ frame is not designed to withstand Class IV loads. Heck, it's probably barely capable of doing Class II loads. I, however, was designing a set of sideplates for a receiver hitch and that's what I was concerned with. In engineering, you have to make assumptions to narrow down the problem and reduce its complexity, which is what I did for this problem. The model that I showed was in no way the final end-all-be-all, but just some preliminary findings to show my potential client base that I was doing a little more than just copying someone else's design.

 

Also look at gearing, horse power, weight distribution, weight of vehicle to weight of cargo/trailer, braking, trailer braking, transmission etc....

 

Whether it be Reese or DrawTite or any other manufacturer would have considered all these factors.

 

Also a ClassIV is a completely different animal........not anything like the ClassIII you are testing. ClassIV is chassis mounted in the bed much like a fifth-wheel but uses a 3" ball.

 

I had no intention of classifying my hitch sideplates as ClassIII, IV, or anything else for that matter. In fact, we had discussed somewhere in this thread that a disclaimer would be issued with each set to let the customer know that these plates are not rated for anything. The cost to get a receiver hitch rated is very, very expensive and depending on where you live and how strict your vehicle inspections or local law enforcement is, it could be an issue - hence the disclaimer. The reason I even threw around the Class III and IV stuff was because I used the Class IV load ratings as a guideline for my boundary conditions for the FEA model.

 

There is more here that some kind of Cad test program of one portion of the whole.

 

I agree, but it needs to be broken down into smaller chunks. My chunk was determining the strength of the sideplates.

[Jeep Driver]

Re: U-Haul Store Hitch Information Request

Hide Details

 

FROM:

 

Trent Bazan

 

TO:

 

jeepmurphy@yahoo.com

 

Message flagged

Tuesday, September 13, 2011 4:36 PM

Message body

"store@uhaul.com" writes:

Retail customer hitch availability request.

 

A hitch search for vehicle: 1988 Jeep Comanche RWD found no hitches for this vehicle.

 

Please contact this customer with hitch availability options and pricing:

 

Name: Scott Murphy

City/state: Parrottsville , TN

Phone: xxxxxxxxxxxx

Email: jeepmurphy@yahoo.com

 

Additional information or comments from the customer:

 

Thank you

 

 

 

Unfortunately we do not have anything available for your vehicle. We can custom build a hitch for you for 450.00 up front. Could take anywhere from 2 weeks - 2 months to build. We also are doing this special if you drive your car to Tempe, AZ and leave your car with us for 2 - 3 days we will build it for free. For any other questions please contact us.

 

Thank You,

Trent Bazan -Hitch Central

[^^^^^^^^^^^]

l U-Haul l'l\__

I_. . ._____l_l __l

'' (0) `````***(0) ''

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If one of you is in AZ you should take them up on the free hitch.

[MJCARENA]

Re: U-Haul Store Hitch Information Request

Hide Details

 

FROM:

 

Trent Bazan

 

TO:

 

jeepmurphy@yahoo.com

 

Message flagged

Tuesday, September 13, 2011 4:36 PM

Message body

"store@uhaul.com" writes:

Retail customer hitch availability request.

 

A hitch search for vehicle: 1988 Jeep Comanche RWD found no hitches for this vehicle.

 

Please contact this customer with hitch availability options and pricing:

 

Name: Scott Murphy

City/state: Parrottsville , TN

Phone: xxxxxxxxxxxx

Email: jeepmurphy@yahoo.com

 

Additional information or comments from the customer:

 

Thank you

 

 

 

Unfortunately we do not have anything available for your vehicle. We can custom build a hitch for you for 450.00 up front. Could take anywhere from 2 weeks - 2 months to build. We also are doing this special if you drive your car to Tempe, AZ and leave your car with us for 2 - 3 days we will build it for free. For any other questions please contact us.

 

Thank You,

Trent Bazan -Hitch Central

[^^^^^^^^^^^]

l U-Haul l'l\__

I_. . ._____l_l __l

'' (0) `````***(0) ''

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If one of you is in AZ you should take them up on the free hitch.

 

Do you have any contact info for Trent Brazan. Would like to look into this deal.

[JACKED88]

E-mail would work best. I just moved to Maryland and the cell phone service at my new place of residence is non-existent - might have to finally say goodbye to AT&T and hello to Verizon (yuck).

 

Anyway I can most likely send you the design, but it's on my computer that is attached to my CNC plasma machine back at my shop in NJ so you can see the logistical issues I have with that right now. I'll be heading back to NJ this weekend so I should be able to grab it then.

 

I'll send you a PM with my contact information.

E-mail sent. (but forgot to include contact info) See additional e-mail.

[Jeep Driver]

Re: U-Haul Store Hitch Information Request

Hide Details

 

FROM:

 

Trent Bazan

 

TO:

 

jeepmurphy@yahoo.com

 

Message flagged

Tuesday, September 13, 2011 4:36 PM

Message body

"store@uhaul.com" writes:

Retail customer hitch availability request.

 

A hitch search for vehicle: 1988 Jeep Comanche RWD found no hitches for this vehicle.

 

Please contact this customer with hitch availability options and pricing:

 

Name: Scott Murphy

City/state: Parrottsville , TN

Phone: xxxxxxxxxxxx

Email: jeepmurphy@yahoo.com

 

Additional information or comments from the customer:

 

Thank you

 

 

 

Unfortunately we do not have anything available for your vehicle. We can custom build a hitch for you for 450.00 up front. Could take anywhere from 2 weeks - 2 months to build. We also are doing this special if you drive your car to Tempe, AZ and leave your car with us for 2 - 3 days we will build it for free. For any other questions please contact us.

 

Thank You,

Trent Bazan -Hitch Central

[^^^^^^^^^^^]

l U-Haul l'l\__

I_. . ._____l_l __l

'' (0) `````***(0) ''

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If one of you is in AZ you should take them up on the free hitch.

 

Do you have any contact info for Trent Brazan. Would like to look into this deal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Trent Bazan ;

[MJCARENA]

Re: U-Haul Store Hitch Information Request

Hide Details

 

FROM:

 

Trent Bazan

 

TO:

 

jeepmurphy@yahoo.com

 

Message flagged

Tuesday, September 13, 2011 4:36 PM

Message body

"store@uhaul.com" writes:

Retail customer hitch availability request.

 

A hitch search for vehicle: 1988 Jeep Comanche RWD found no hitches for this vehicle.

 

Please contact this customer with hitch availability options and pricing:

 

Name: Scott Murphy

City/state: Parrottsville , TN

Phone: xxxxxxxxxxxx

Email: jeepmurphy@yahoo.com

 

Additional information or comments from the customer:

 

Thank you

 

 

 

Unfortunately we do not have anything available for your vehicle. We can custom build a hitch for you for 450.00 up front. Could take anywhere from 2 weeks - 2 months to build. We also are doing this special if you drive your car to Tempe, AZ and leave your car with us for 2 - 3 days we will build it for free. For any other questions please contact us.

 

Thank You,

Trent Bazan -Hitch Central

[^^^^^^^^^^^]

l U-Haul l'l\__

I_. . ._____l_l __l

'' (0) `````***(0) ''

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If one of you is in AZ you should take them up on the free hitch.

 

Do you have any contact info for Trent Brazan. Would like to look into this deal.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Trent Bazan ;

 

 

Thanks

[jpnjim]

Weird that they would build it for free.

Can only assume this is so they can get a pattern to build more.

 

Why wouldn't they just dig out their own engineering plans on the old ones?

[jpdriver1]

if it is uhaul offering, they most likely do not have the engineering drawings -- mine had the uhaul sticker on it and is marked drawtite (embossed in the steel) --- I contacted drawtite about obtaining a set of drawings for the group, but they declined :ack: . They did send me a install sheet for their #75021 comanche hitch -- this was in response to my question to them about long/short bed fitment --- hitch was the same :wrench: waiting to measure and have converted to a cad drawing, before mounting it

[Jeep Driver]

Uhaul was huge back in the 80s. The one I worked at in Largo FL had a custom hitch builder on site, if we did not have it in stock he built it. RVs were a big deal at the time and we stayed busy. I only installed the pre-built hitches while he installed his custom ones. It is not as complicated or engineered as you guys make it out to be. May also be a generational thing too, you guys in your 20s and 30s don't' use your imagination, if it's not 'engineered' on a computer then it must not be so.

[Jeep Driver]

To answer the question why would Uhaul build one for free? I'm sure it's a long standing policy that if they don't stock it or have a particular one available that their R&D will design one. It's rarely taken advantage of so it stands as policy.

[terrawombat]

Uhaul was huge back in the 80s. The one I worked at in Largo FL had a custom hitch builder on site, if we did not have it in stock he built it. RVs were a big deal at the time and we stayed busy. I only installed the pre-built hitches while he installed his custom ones. It is not as complicated or engineered as you guys make it out to be. May also be a generational thing too, you guys in your 20s and 30s don't' use your imagination, if it's not 'engineered' on a computer then it must not be so.

 

I'm having a hard time understanding why you are so opposed to me putting in a little bit more effort than the next guy in determining a safe and effective design for a trailer hitch. I'm not charging anyone for my time - I just wanted to use my IMAGINATION and not do a straight copy of an existing design. Plus, I wanted to have the peace of mind in knowing that it would perform as it was intended. Again, it was my name and reputation on the line and I want to protect that even if, by your standards, it means making it out to be more "complicated or engineered" than it actually is. Seesh. Sorry.

 

I'm sure any Joe Blow that is good with a torch and a welder can come up with a perfectly acceptable trailer hitch design that fits on our trucks and works just fine. That's fantastic. Through my over complication and engineering, I was also looking for ways to reduce material costs, that I could pass down to the consumer. When it comes to sheet steel, weight = money.

 

And finally, your generalization is somewhat insulting. Since I'm 26 and fall directly into your blanket statement of unimaginative engineers, I take offense. Computers, CAD, FEA, CFD etc. are all tools that aid engineers and are, by no means, a replacement for imagination. It was no different for the engineer's of days past that used a pencil and paper to come up with designs and perform calculations. The ideas have to come from somewhere and that's usually up in your noggin'.

[jpdriver1]

you fellows that have installed the drawtite hitch, how many of the small steel spacer blocks were there (2 or 4)?

[terrawombat]

you fellows that have installed the drawtite hitch, how many of the small steel spacer blocks were there (2 or 4)?

 

I believe I had two welded on either sideplate (one on each side) and then there were four loose ones.

[jpdriver1]

thank you TW --- picked up the hitch w/2 spacer blocks

[Jeep Driver]

Uhaul was huge back in the 80s. The one I worked at in Largo FL had a custom hitch builder on site, if we did not have it in stock he built it. RVs were a big deal at the time and we stayed busy. I only installed the pre-built hitches while he installed his custom ones. It is not as complicated or engineered as you guys make it out to be. May also be a generational thing too, you guys in your 20s and 30s don't' use your imagination, if it's not 'engineered' on a computer then it must not be so.

 

I'm having a hard time understanding why you are so opposed to me putting in a little bit more effort than the next guy in determining a safe and effective design for a trailer hitch. I'm not charging anyone for my time - I just wanted to use my IMAGINATION and not do a straight copy of an existing design. Plus, I wanted to have the peace of mind in knowing that it would perform as it was intended. Again, it was my name and reputation on the line and I want to protect that even if, by your standards, it means making it out to be more "complicated or engineered" than it actually is. Seesh. Sorry.

 

I'm sure any Joe Blow that is good with a torch and a welder can come up with a perfectly acceptable trailer hitch design that fits on our trucks and works just fine. That's fantastic. Through my over complication and engineering, I was also looking for ways to reduce material costs, that I could pass down to the consumer. When it comes to sheet steel, weight = money.

 

And finally, your generalization is somewhat insulting. Since I'm 26 and fall directly into your blanket statement of unimaginative engineers, I take offense. Computers, CAD, FEA, CFD etc. are all tools that aid engineers and are, by no means, a replacement for imagination. It was no different for the engineer's of days past that used a pencil and paper to come up with designs and perform calculations. The ideas have to come from somewhere and that's usually up in your noggin'.

 

 

You bring up a couple of good points.

At 45 I had the blessing of working with and learning from what may be the last generation of craftsmen. Oh sure, for some a craft has been handed down to them but for the most part.......craftsmanship is lost.

 

To the point of being offended- it wasn't personal just an accurate observation of a generation at large.

I've had numerous hobbies over the years and my Comanche is the latest and that what brings me here. I will not have a lift on my truck because I work out of it, the only folks here in E TN that drive lifted trucks are the toothless hillbillies that come down off the mountains and I cannot have that kind of appearance when I pull up to someone's home. Having read quite a bit here I get the impression that if your Comanche isn't lifted you aint $#!&.......shall I be offended? No I'm past that nonsense.

 

I used to build Ak47s and I used to handcraft stocks for them, gripsnstocks.com now defunct. The trick is to move directly from your imagination to your hands.......that's where craftsmanship lies.

 

The last project was-

This Cub does not exist (only one that I know of), standard tranny with full hydraulics (less rear hitch). It's what you don't see that matters. Built from a compilation of the best that Cub Cadet had to offer, complete build from lose parts and my custom hydraulic system.

 

 

No I did not grow up in the computer age. We have only had a computer in the house for the last 5 years. I bet you don't remember a time before cell phones and computers and only 4 channels on the one TV in the house?

[HOrnbrod]

:popcorn: :smart:

[terrawombat]

You bring up a couple of good points.

At 45 I had the blessing of working with and learning from what may be the last generation of craftsmen. Oh sure, for some a craft has been handed down to them but for the most part.......craftsmanship is lost.

 

We can go around in circles arguing that engineers over think and over complicate design scenarios while fabricators and craftsman don't think about it enough. It's an annoying argument and one I grow very tired of. In my opinion, the best solution is to have the two work together to come up with something that benefits everyone.

 

To the point of being offended- it wasn't personal just an accurate observation of a generation at large.

I've had numerous hobbies over the years and my Comanche is the latest and that what brings me here. I will not have a lift on my truck because I work out of it, the only folks here in E TN that drive lifted trucks are the toothless hillbillies that come down off the mountains and I cannot have that kind of appearance when I pull up to someone's home. Having read quite a bit here I get the impression that if your Comanche isn't lifted you aint $#!&.......shall I be offended? No I'm past that nonsense.

 

I don't really see how this is in any way connected to the statement that you made before that all engineer's in their 20's and 30's are unimaginative because of their reliance on a computer program to do the work for them. All you've done is create another stereotypical scenario that I don't agree with considering 2 of my 3 Comanche's are non-lifted and ARE the $#!&.

 

The last project was-

This Cub does not exist (only one that I know of), standard tranny with full hydraulics (less rear hitch). It's what you don't see that matters. Built from a compilation of the best that Cub Cadet had to offer, complete build from lose parts and my custom hydraulic system.

 

Well, if we're going to do a show and tell of our imaginative projects, then here is the most current picture of my 1988 Jeep Comanche that is getting the best that Jeep had to offer - a 5.9L V8 Magnum engine, the 97+XJ interior and front clip and Rubicon Moab wheels. The engine bay harness from the '98ZJ donor will be spliced together with the '97XJ donor interior harness which will be spliced together to the '88MJ rear lighting harness. I can only name a handful of other people that have done this sort of project.

 

 

 

No I did not grow up in the computer age. We have only had a computer in the house for the last 5 years. I bet you don't remember a time before cell phones and computers and only 4 channels on the one TV in the house?

 

I remember the first computer my parents bought (a Tandy) and their first cell phone (the gray Motorola brick). I also remember when we had to adjust the rabbit ear antenna on top of our only TV to get channels 3, 6, 10, 17, and 29.

[Jeep Driver]

You bring up a couple of good points.

At 45 I had the blessing of working with and learning from what may be the last generation of craftsmen. Oh sure, for some a craft has been handed down to them but for the most part.......craftsmanship is lost.

 

We can go around in circles arguing that engineers over think and over complicate design scenarios while fabricators and craftsman don't think about it enough. It's an annoying argument and one I grow very tired of. In my opinion, the best solution is to have the two work together to come up with something that benefits everyone.

 

To the point of being offended- it wasn't personal just an accurate observation of a generation at large.

I've had numerous hobbies over the years and my Comanche is the latest and that what brings me here. I will not have a lift on my truck because I work out of it, the only folks here in E TN that drive lifted trucks are the toothless hillbillies that come down off the mountains and I cannot have that kind of appearance when I pull up to someone's home. Having read quite a bit here I get the impression that if your Comanche isn't lifted you aint $#!&.......shall I be offended? No I'm past that nonsense.

 

I don't really see how this is in any way connected to the statement that you made before that all engineer's in their 20's and 30's are unimaginative because of their reliance on a computer program to do the work for them. All you've done is create another stereotypical scenario that I don't agree with considering 2 of my 3 Comanche's are non-lifted and ARE the $#!&.

 

The last project was-

This Cub does not exist (only one that I know of), standard tranny with full hydraulics (less rear hitch). It's what you don't see that matters. Built from a compilation of the best that Cub Cadet had to offer, complete build from lose parts and my custom hydraulic system.

 

Well, if we're going to do a show and tell of our imaginative projects, then here is the most current picture of my 1988 Jeep Comanche that is getting the best that Jeep had to offer - a 5.9L V8 Magnum engine, the 97+XJ interior and front clip and Rubicon Moab wheels. The engine bay harness from the '98ZJ donor will be spliced together with the '97XJ donor interior harness which will be spliced together to the '88MJ rear lighting harness. I can only name a handful of other people that have done this sort of project.

 

 

 

No I did not grow up in the computer age. We have only had a computer in the house for the last 5 years. I bet you don't remember a time before cell phones and computers and only 4 channels on the one TV in the house?

 

I remember the first computer my parents bought (a Tandy) and their first cell phone (the gray Motorola brick). I also remember when we had to adjust the rabbit ear antenna on top of our only TV to get channels 3, 6, 10, 17, and 29.

 

Yeah I can appreciate your Comanche build and I'd like to do something along that line but it's a matter of cash thin. And I chose the 2.5 route for the fuel economy.......I love this 24mpg around town. My wife's 4.0 Cherokee gets about 14 if we coast and pray a lot.

[A-man930]

 

Uploaded with ImageShack.us