Looking at buying a Car!!!???

[500 MJ]

Hey Guys,

 

Yes its true. I'm looking at going out and getting myself a car. No need to worry though, since both of the MJs are bought and paid for, they will be staying put. ;)

 

I've been looking into the Volkswagon Jetta TDI market since I took a ride in my buddy's TDI this summer. Very well put together car and I like the thought of having the TDI for looking farther down the line for where we all know the petroleum market will someday end up... Also looking at the Volkswagon Golf.

 

My parents have a Subaru Forester and a Honda Accord, both are also cars that I've come to respect and enjoy driving when I am home. They both have their place and preferred type of weather to drive in, but I could also see myself in one of them someday...

 

Then there is the...Liberty. Yah I said it, I would only opt for the TDI (edit - CRD) though if I were to cross over to the world of Jeep IFS. Also, I do believe that the Grand Cherokee was offered with a TDI (edit - CRD) at one point as well? Not really too interested in the Jeep Grand Cherokees or a Cherokee because I really wouldn't be gaining what I am out to accomplish by getting one of them, and I KNOW that I would not be able to just leave it as it is, I would modify is somehow sooner or later...I've got enough projects with the MJs so far, don't need another one.

 

I haven't really looked into the domestic market much for cars. From what I've seen of them in the last 5-10 years, I'm not really impressed. I think that they do leave much to be desired when compared to the "foreign" counterparts. Quality of craftsmanship is what I'm after most and too many of the domestic offerings seem to have WAY too many afterthoughts for me to be satisfied with their designs... :dunno:

 

So far this is about all I've looked into. I've never owned a car, always been a pickup or the one Cherokee that I had. Like most of you guys out there, I would like to maintain my own vehicle, so something that is easy to work with/on is desired. I really want something that is going to be good on gas too, or what I consider good on gas, somewhere at or above 30 MPG. I'm about 6'3" tall and 200 lbs, so something that can handle a good sized frame would be a must. I'll be buying this for a highway cruiser and something that I can haul a good amount of stuff in. Right now I'm not married (going to happen soon though) and have no kids to tote around. So its just me and the girlfriend and all our stuff. She has a Border Collie and I really hope to get a Beagle soon. For this reason I'm thinking a hatchback would really work out well...?

 

I guess this is just a whole new world to me, never looked at buying a car before. Any guidance is appreciated.

 

Thanks,

 

- Brent

[JeepcoMJ]

with the VW's, just stay away from the VR6 series motor. they're quick, and they run great...until the timing tensioners blow.

[Carl'sMJ]

Have you thought about a PT Cruiser at all? My Dad has had one for about a year and it has worked out well so far. It would work well for hauling some stuff, however, while it will get better mileage than the XJ or MJ, I don't think it gets 30 MPG. It is a little bit different look and I have talked to alot of people who don't like the way they look, but to each their own.

 

As far as quality of craftsmanship... IMHO good luck finding it with anything out there foreign or domestic manufactured.

[Automan2164]

Brent, while I always endorse VW products, I will say to take another look at Ford... Working there for 4 years really opened my eyes to the quality stuff they put out. I am really fond of the Escape, and the focus... They also have that edge crossover that is sharp.

 

My mom has been looking for a new ride, and I have been suggesting a VW for sometime now. They had an updated version of the Rabbit for sale awhile ago, which I was trying to get her into. I would say if your could get a TDI golf or Jetta, that would be the cats pajamas. VW is one of the ONLY car makers still cranking out some manual transmissions in volume too... Another plus for my mom, as she can't drive automatic, and hates them. (She's an off the boat german.) She was in tears once at the chevy dealer when she was given an automatic loaner because she couldn't get it out of park. (Didn't know she had to press the brake to release the interlock.)

 

Also, as I tell everyone I know when "Newer" car shopping, program cars are where its at. They are sales demos, company cars, sometimes rentals, let loose at 10-20K miles, with the remainder of the factory warranty, dealer inspected, and a VERY good deal over buying new, and loosing 10-20% of value as soon as you drive off the lot.

 

Rob

[mnkyboy]

VW TDIs eat cams/lifters and the Bosch fuel distribution pumps on them are expensive and have alot of problems.

 

 

For a small car i would look into a Focus,Ive had 3 of them. All have been super reliable and quality is right there with the imports. you can also buy a loaded one for less then a base model VW

[500 MJ]

Thanks for everything so far guys. Ford was one of the brands I was looking into at one time, just never really followed through with it.

 

All these little tips about VW timing belts and fuel pumps are good things to know. Keep 'em coming please!

[mvusse]

I used to be a VW guy, and my parents have had a bunch of them (Jettas and Passats) over the years back in Europe. BUT

 

VW isn't what it used to be. Their cars are lots of fun to drive, until something breaks. And sometimes it's a stupid little part that nobody has and needs to be shipped from Europe (a friend of mine bought an old S10 beater to drive while his Passat currently is and has been parked for 3 months waiting on a part). Another friend of mine bought a new Jetta that the automatic transmission went out after 6 months. They also have mechanical problems with engines.

 

I will endorse both Honda and Toyota if you can live with the car still going strong long after the body has rotted away. Some GMs are also good, but Cobalts -as fun as they are- have front suspension problems. Malibus may have the same.

[500 MJ]

Some GMs are also good, but Cobalts -as fun as they are- have front suspension problems.

 

Tell me about it. I drive one every day, my company car. It gets around good but it needs some work, I inherited it that way. Also I'm not very impressed with the interior. Paint is chipping off of the plastic on the inside door handles and the little shroud around the button for the sunroof broke off when I pushed the button one day. :ack:

 

Not too fond of the traction control either. I can turn it off by putting the auto trans in First, but there is no way to turn off the traction control if I wanted to in Reverse. I've had issues with this already trying to park on the snow covered grass of the railroad right of ways and then get back out... :rant:

 

All in all, the Cobalt does get me around everyday quite well, but I don't think I'll ever buy one for myself.

[Automan2164]

Brent, the secret way to turn off the traction control on the cobalt is to pull up the e-brake one click...

 

(Dealer-known cool guy trick) ;)

Rob L.

[dasbulliwagen]

Being a chrysler dealer tech, I see all the used cars that come through the lot. The so called PROGRAM cars you need to be careful with. In my estimation, 90-95% of them are returned rentals. There can be problems with these, as the rental companies don't like to maintain their vehicles very well.... Ive also worked at Hertz so Ive seen that too. At the time I worked there, Ford owned them, all the Ford rentals got thier oil changed at 4000 miles, and everything else was at 7000 miles. The worst cars we get at the dealer now are Enterprise rentals.... I don't think they change the oil in them at all.... been too many of them in with engine problems that seem oil related.... but for some reason they all had their oil changed right beofre they came in for repairs!!! Seems fishy to me! don't count Hyundai out. They have come a long way in the last 10 years, and receive some very high quality marks from places like consumer reports. The first one I bought was a used 97 model in 2001 with 36000 miles on it...... manual trans, and its still running strong at 155000 miles and getting 38mpg. That car being so good made us look at the Hyundai Tuscon. Also a consumer reports high rater. It is an 05 model we bought in spring of 06. The price was right, it looks good, and can get upto about 28mpg.... 4cyl, manual trans. 10/100 warranty. We'll be ready to buy again in another year and are considering another Tuscon... the restyled one! Very nice, and start at $18000. Good luch with your purchase!

[Oizarod115]

you're going to HATE working on a VW. they are about the least fun thing you can wrench on.

 

Although buying new a TDI wouldn't give you any trouble for a longgg time but it will eventually need something EXPENSIVE.

 

i would suggest the v6 honda accord... very high quality piece, easy to work on and don't tear up much.

also, take a look at the toyota camry/corolla, also a high quality piece (even though they're gettin some REALLY bad press right now)

[Oizarod115]

\don't count Hyundai out. They have come a long way in the last 10 years, and receive some very high quality marks from places like consumer reports. The first one I bought was a used 97 model in 2001 with 36000 miles on it...... manual trans, and its still running strong at 155000 miles and getting 38mpg. That car being so good made us look at the Hyundai Tuscon. Also a consumer reports high rater. It is an 05 model we bought in spring of 06. The price was right, it looks good, and can get upto about 28mpg.... 4cyl, manual trans. 10/100 warranty. We'll be ready to buy again in another year and are considering another Tuscon... the restyled one! Very nice, and start at $18000. Good luch with your purchase!

i also agree with this greatly, hyundai and kia have come a LONG way. both good cars.

[Automan2164]

Forgot... Look at the Toyota matrix/Pontiac Vibe... Same car, good quality.

 

Rob L.

[gambit4000s]

VW TDIs eat cams/lifters and the Bosch fuel distribution pumps on them are expensive and have alot of problems.

If I may chime in here, The cam/lifter problem seems to be confined to engines with cam actuated injectors, the Pumpe Duse motors (04-06/07 Golf, Jetta, New Beetle, Passat) And is similar to Ford and CAT injection systems http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unit_Injector, Most of the failures seem to be related to infrequent/improper oil changes, Like Ford and CAT, VW speced a specific oil, with added chemicals to address the greater stresses on cam/lifter surfaces due to very aggressive ramp angle/cam profile needed for injector application.

 

As far as the older style mechanical injection pumps being failure prone, I believe this to be untrue, The Bosch VE pump and it's later computer controlled revisions have been the workhorse of the diesel market for over 30 years. Used by every major manufacturer of diesel engines(VW Mercedes, Detroit, Cat, Navistar, etc) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Injection_pump Like any component longevity is determined by conditions like fuel quality, maintenance, etc.

 

VW TDI engines are well supported in the aftermarket, easily tunable, and with regular timing belts and maintenance are extremely reliable, the premium/resale on TDI cars still far exceeds that of Toyota hybrids, My 96 Passat is still "worth" what I paid for it 5 years ago.

 

The downside of VW cars can be the body systems and electronics, but with any car if you replace the engine a few times and push 300,400,500K I don't think any manufacturer's products will be in better condition. VW transverse automatics are trash BTW, The new DSG(electronic clutch manuals) show promise but are relatively new, and I haven't seen one with more than 120k yet, but time will tell. As a general rule stay away from a VW with a torque converter.

 

If you are looking for an A4 chassis car(98-05 Golf/Jetta) I would recommend looking for an ALH code engine with a manual transmission, and as with anything, look for maintenance, and be prepared to pay a premium for a quality car. I would suggest buying from an enthusiast.

If you are looking for more information I suggest:

http://www.tdiclub.com Lots of good information here

http://www.vwdiesel.net Mostly older IDI tuner/modification but a lot of good TDI too

http://www.vwvortex.comLots of good VW/Audi info here, but alot of douchebaggery, Especially in the MK4 forums.

 

I, until recent medical issues, worked as a VW/Audi tech at an independent VW/Audi only shop here in Knoxville, TN, depending on your location I would be more than happy to inspect a car for you.

[mnkyboy]

I have replaced several sets of cam/lifters under warranty in late model TDI engines(non cam actuated)

 

and yes the mechanical pump is bullet proof,the newer electronic controlled pump is not,some guys actually put the older setup on the TDI engines as an upgrade or for engine transplants

[gambit4000s]

How late, which motors? Being in an independent we usually didn't get much still under warranty, other than maintenance

[mnkyboy]

IIRC it was the 1.9L BEW, i still have a few turbos laying around from some

 

EDIT> it was the ALH engine not BEW

[gambit4000s]

IIRC it was the 1.9L BEW, i still have a few turbos laying around from some

BEW is still a cam injector engine, but no matter sent you a pm.

[kro10000]

Just my 2 cents, but from my experience in the parts buisiness, parts for Hyundais and Kias are typically more expensive and more difficult to obtain then Jap, Euro, and domestic makes

[knever3]

I don't know your budget but Subaru is high on my list. They have the best AWD system and they are roomy. The gas mileage might not be as good as others but you get AWD and that's a plus in my book. I would look for one with the H6 instead of the 4 banger unless it's a turbo like a WRX wagon, that would haul the misses along nicely.

[87Warrior]

At one point I was looking for a car to be my DD, to take the burden off of my TJ. I wanted something fun, unique, and easy to maintain. Wound up with a 1997 Mazda Miata :nuts: That car was a pure joy to drive even at 6'3" 180lbs. It got around 28mpg with hard driving. However, I got bored quickly and was driving my TJ more and more after 3 months. Then I bought the MJ and sold the Miata, less than 7 months after buying it. It went to a guy who was planned on autocross'ing it. Moral of the story: It will be impossible to find something more enjoyable than a Jeep to drive.

 

I was surprised how well the Mazda was built. Even impressed with my younger sisters '06 Mazda3. It is very comfortable to sit in and take for long drives. You can shove a lot of crap in the trunk too. It gets 28-32mpg with a ski rack on top.

 

My girlfriend has a '00 Camry and loves everything about it, until it snows/ices. The 4cyl model gets 35+mpg with a load and still has power to go up and over mountain passes. She has 110K miles on it and has had no mechanical failures. My biggest complaint is the seats. They are so damned uncomfortable!

 

If buying new I would probably consider Jeep/Ford/Mazda/Chevy. I would love to get a 5spd Patriot for my DD and cross country trips. If buying used I would consider Toyota/Mazda/Honda.

[CRF136N]

I was in your very situation back in 2007, having owned my share of trucks/SUV's, the gas prices had me looking at something a little more realistic for an economical dd...gulp, I began my "car" search.

-I preferred something NEW, cause I don't trust anyone else whe it comes to break-in maintenance on a vehicle I plan to rely on every day for a couple hundred thousand miles.

-I NEEDED AWD cause I live in snow country

-I wanted a known tried, tested and proven drivetrain and a good reputation, no new model experimentation

-It HAD to not only be low maintenance, but be easy and cheap to fix should something go wrong

-Finally, I wasn't gonna spend more than $20,000

 

Search upon search, I wound up with a new 2008 Subaru Impreza 2.5i. For the new price tag of like $18,000 -I think it was-, I'll say I do really like the car. The AWD is GREAT. I average between 25-31mpg consistantly. I have racked up over 80,000 miles on it so far without anything more than changing the oil every 3,000. I hated it at first, I learned it was too "delicate" and low to the ground for me...I kept crushing in the rocker panels and causing damage to the front bumper by running over things...but I got used to it. For your dog, I personally don't care much for the '08+ hatch, but the '07- wagon isn't so bad. If I did it over again though, I'd prob look cloers at the new forester.

 

:brows: Rescently I decided to modify it a little for my needs, because I can't leave a vehicle stock either. It occured to me thats these are born and bred rally cars, so why not rally it out? So, I trimmed for a little more ground clearance...fabbed up a custom lift kit and put bigger tires on it :shake: :nuts: Now I REALLY like it Its a blast to go tear up some fireroads, play in the rocks or just hit the jeep trails...something about doing it in a car and getting reaction from the Jeepers, or just being able to play around with the low center of gravity is just fun as hell. Some people think I have lost my mind, but mostly I get positive feedback :D Do I dare post pics.?. :roll: I'm still awaiting the tube front bumper to be made...

(BTW, those are General Grabber A/T2's I'm running on my SUBARU IMPREZA :rotf: )

Anyway, .02 cents...the AWD is nice to have :D :cheers:

-James

 

***I changed these pics to thumbnails, dunno how they got big after an edit? Sorry, I'm trying to figure it out***

[dasbulliwagen]

What the previous poster said about VW automatics, goes the same for Hyundai automatics.... stick to a manual trans. It is proven that a manual car has way fewer issues with reliability than an auto. If you have access to alldata, when you seem dialed into a car you want, get on alldata and look up the factory TSB's for it and previous models. Thats a good indicator as to what you might expect when you get your car.

[jteckmann]

If buying new I would probably consider Jeep/Ford/Mazda/Chevy. I would love to get a 5spd Patriot for my DD and cross country trips. If buying used I would consider Toyota/Mazda/Honda.

 

The wife and I just spent a week in the Vegas/Death Valley area and had a Patriot as our rental - and I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised. It was a plain, stripped model (no power locks/windows, cruise, etc) but it had the 2.4, auto, and the AWD system (Freedom Drive I(?) - not the one with the low range or extra ground clearance)

 

Anyways - it handled very nice, had plenty of power on the highway. Drove very car-like (in a good way) responsive steering, didn't feel top heavy in corners, etc. Had about 40K of rental car abuse miles on it, but the quality seemed good - no bad squeaks or rattles even when I was flying down gravel roads in the National Park. Comfortable, lots of room up front and I liked the driving position. Great visibility. With the rear seats folded down it had tons of space in the back (just as much if not more than my wife's full-size Magnum) and it was very easy to drive around town and zip into small parking spaces or tight corners.

 

Did some quick math on the back of my gas receipts, and figured I got between 28-30mpg in mixed driving the week I had it. Can't say I'm a fan of the CVT auto though - maybe if I owned one and got used to how it responded (or using the auto-stick feature to cycle through the gears) I'd like it better, but it definitely takes some getting used to.

 

But my wife and I agreed that if she ever gets rid of her Magnum, that a Patriot would be high on our list of replacements. I'd probably get a 5sp with the basic AWD system - that seems good enough for bad weather and low traction conditions. I wouldn't spend the $$ for the "trail rated" version, because that's what the MJ's for.

[freakjeep93]

I was in your very situation back in 2007, having owned my share of trucks/SUV's, the gas prices had me looking at something a little more realistic for an economical dd...gulp, I began my "car" search.

-I preferred something NEW, cause I don't trust anyone else whe it comes to break-in maintenance on a vehicle I plan to rely on every day for a couple hundred thousand miles.

-I NEEDED AWD cause I live in snow country

-I wanted a known tried, tested and proven drivetrain and a good reputation, no new model experimentation

-It HAD to not only be low maintenance, but be easy and cheap to fix should something go wrong

-Finally, I wasn't gonna spend more than $20,000

 

Search upon search, I wound up with a new 2008 Subaru Impreza 2.5i. For the new price tag of like $18,000 -I think it was-, I'll say I do really like the car. The AWD is GREAT. I average between 25-31mpg consistantly. I have racked up over 80,000 miles on it so far without anything more than changing the oil every 3,000. I hated it at first, I learned it was too "delicate" and low to the ground for me...I kept crushing in the rocker panels and causing damage to the front bumper by running over things...but I got used to it. For your dog, I personally don't care much for the '08+ hatch, but the '07- wagon isn't so bad. If I did it over again though, I'd prob look cloers at the new forester.

 

:brows: Rescently I decided to modify it a little for my needs, because I can't leave a vehicle stock either. It occured to me thats these are born and bred rally cars, so why not rally it out? So, I trimmed for a little more ground clearance...fabbed up a custom lift kit and put bigger tires on it :shake: :nuts: Now I REALLY like it Its a blast to go tear up some fireroads, play in the rocks or just hit the jeep trails...something about doing it in a car and getting reaction from the Jeepers, or just being able to play around with the low center of gravity is just fun as hell. Some people think I have lost my mind, but mostly I get positive feedback :D Do I dare post pics.?. :roll: I'm still awaiting the tube front bumper to be made...

(BTW, those are General Grabber A/T2's I'm running on my SUBARU IMPREZA :rotf: )

Anyway, .02 cents...the AWD is nice to have :D :cheers:

-James

 

***I changed these pics to thumbnails, dunno how they got big after an edit? Sorry, I'm trying to figure it out***

 

wow either you stole my idea or i was gunna steal yours. i REALLY want to do that to a car someday..