Welding help

[Deleted user]

I'm looking at purchaseing a welder since my buddy who normally does it for me is moving. I'm not looking to get anything real seriuos just some minor welding (new floor pans exhaust, steel bumpers and dog boxes). I'm looking at a mig welder so i can weld steel and aluminum ive seen a buch of different kinds with gas without gas etc. i know the gas is used for welding aluminum but i recently saw a flux core welder that says it doesnt need gas. will i still be able to weld aluminum with it or no? my next question is will i be able to weld SOA lift, new bumpers floor pans etc with a 110vlt welder? i know there are a lot of fabricators on here but please english only (like my boss says small words and if necessary crayons) :dunce:

[jpdocdave]

you need a tig welder for aluminum, and skill with it.

 

i wouldn't bother with a 110 welder, if you're gonna start doing soa parts. floor pans, and exhaust fine. flux core is about the nastiest weld out there, but it works ok. it can be done w/ a 110, but if you aren't all that skilled, buy a welder that is gonna make you look better.

 

spend the money and get a cheaper 220 mig welder. i wouldn't bother with flux core, just get the gas mig. last time i looked, there are some awesome deals on ebay on good welders. millermatic, and other millers are great welders.

[Deleted user]

tig instead of mig? i thought a mig would do both aluminum and steel? will tig do both as well? so i should get a 220vlt instead..what are the advantages (disadvantages) of a 220 vs a 110?

[CWLONGSHOT]

MiG will do aluminum, but its not easy. the wire doesn't feed well cause its so soft. (Its alum too)

 

You need some reading and research on brands. I bought a new one last year when my second hand Snap-on welder gave up the ghost. I chose a 115V Hobart and LOVE it. With .030 and .035 flux core wire I easily weld 1/4" steel. Solid core .030 (with gas) makes for some very nice welder, but lacks the penetration power of the flux core.

 

Sounds to my like a 115 would fit your needs. A 220V will do more and get you a better duty cycle, but at a higher initial cost and the need for special wiring. (Most garages done have a 30 amp 220V plug) It would also only really be better with the thicker steels, no advantage on the sheet-metal work.

 

IIRC, I got my Hobart 140Handler for $480 shipped to my door W/a cart.

 

CW

[Deleted user]

cw-- i saw a a post on here of your build and you are truly gifted in the art of welding. the roll bar you did was awesome. so if I'm using a flux core i don't need the gas? i thought you needed gas for aluminum, or do i just not need the gas for steel?

[DirtyComanche]

cw-- i saw a a post on here of your build and you are truly gifted in the art of welding. the roll bar you did was awesome. so if I'm using a flux core i don't need the gas? i thought you needed gas for aluminum, or do i just not need the gas for steel?

 

 

Flux core works on steel without gas. It's ugly, terrible stuff to weld with. Get gas, and use solid core wire, it is worth it. For mild steel, most guys use stargold (75% Argon, 25% CO2) as it burns a little hotter and is cheaper than pure argon. Some use pure CO2 as it burns the hottest, but it causes more splatter and a lot more cleanup. For aluminum, you need pure argon, which will also work with mild steel and will produce the cleanest results. However, it is more expensive to run on a regular basis and can be a little less available.

 

Aluminum can be a pain. A spool gun is preferred, as it is a lot more likely to kink or have other feed issues than steel wire. You also need more voltage for the same thickness of material, a lot more. And aluminum is more picky about the wire type you use (you want it to be compatible with the alloy you're welding), and requires more stringent prep. It also flows like mad, so doing anything but a flat position weld is really hard until you're good at it.

 

And I still figure a bigger welder is always better. You might not need it, but the duty cycle and capability is nice to have if it ever becomes a need. Also, resale is a lot higher on 220V welders than the 110V jobbies, I find. There's lots of people who bought a 110V and find they need to upgrade; I'd look for a used one rather than a new one.

 

Oh yeah, I've got a millermatic 180... I'd recommend it.

[Eagle]

I'm looking at purchaseing a welder since my buddy who normally does it for me is moving. I'm not looking to get anything real seriuos just some minor welding (new floor pans exhaust, steel bumpers and dog boxes). I'm looking at a mig welder so i can weld steel and aluminum ive seen a buch of different kinds with gas without gas etc. i know the gas is used for welding aluminum but i recently saw a flux core welder that says it doesnt need gas. will i still be able to weld aluminum with it or no?

As already noted, for aluminum you need TIG, not MIG. I have a 110-volt flux-core welder. It's suitable only for very light-duty work, and only if you don't really care what the welds look like. I wish I had bought one that takes gas. And if you have 240 volts available in your garage, don't even slow down when you walk past the 110-volt welders.

 

my next question is will i be able to weld SOA lift, new bumpers floor pans etc with a 110vlt welder?

With gas, floor pans -- yes. Bumpers -- maybe, depending on how they are detailed, but probably requiring pre-heating and multiple passes. SOA lift? Not if I'm on the same road with you.

[jpdocdave]

i just breezed through ebay very quickly, under a grand buys a gorgeous welder. i'd step up to a decent machine, like i already said. i wouldn't even try aluminum w/ mig, but thats cuz i do it with tig and love it.

 

800 bux may sound like a lot, you didn't really specify budget, but don't even think about harbor freight 110's, or even cheaper 110's under 400 bux. so you really need to spend 500 bux to get a new welder that isn't better used as a door stop. so steppin up to a little more money, makes a difference you'll never even know till yo do it.

 

the thing about mig welders, is, the right machine, set right, makes a monkey look like a welder.

[CWLONGSHOT]

cw-- i saw a a post on here of your build and you are truly gifted in the art of welding. the roll bar you did was awesome. so if I'm using a flux core i don't need the gas? i thought you needed gas for aluminum, or do i just not need the gas for steel?

 

Thank you, but I am FAR from an expert!!

 

Guys like Dirty have likely forgotten more than I know about welding. His advice is sound and comes from many years of experience.

I have gotten "proficient" with mine. I like what I get with flux core wire and near 1/4" steel I am welding. My welds look great, penetrate well and are strong. The few times I needed to grind thru them proved extremely difficult.

 

The biggest burden I see with a 220V welder is having the electric run from your panel to the garage. No doubt its a more sensible choice. I suggested the 115V simply based on the majority of your listed tasks. Leave the perches for a bigger machine and a good 115V will suit your requirements.

For the perches, you will need a bigger machine than a 115V MiG. I have welded one with my old Snap on but that was a bigger 115V. My little 140Handler has tacked one set well enough to drive the truck to a stick machine. Currently I have both a big 220V Lincoln stick as well as the Hobart 140Handler. So for me, a 115V MiG makes good sence.

 

CW

[Wildman]

you need a tig welder for aluminum, and skill with it.

 

 

 

 

Not really.........2 weeks ago, I welded up a aluminum gate lock box, 1/8" thick with oxy/acetylene, #2 tip and Aladdin 3-n-1, 1/16" rod with no problems.

 

Get a Good name brand mig welder, either 110 0r 220, with the gas set up and practice, after a few hours, you'll get the hang.

 

As far as brand........I know my next (real soon) mig will be a Clarke. And I'm up grading to 220 for the shop, and keeping the 110 for on the job.

[JeepcoMJ]

few things.

 

1.

 

none of you on this forum should be buying and using flux core welders. it's one strong @$$ weld, but it takes an EXPERT to use correctly. EVERY bead layed with flux core must then be chipped and brushed before making another pass, otherwise you will just build up a pile of crap metal that won't bond to anything, and end up breaking whatever you weld.

 

I'll get some of my brother's flux core pictures. he's a welder at Bucyrus, manufacturing large (110 ton and higher, no thinner than 5" steel but up to 2 feet thick), and they use flux core. flux core (when done right) is capable of holding 500lbs per inch of weld. But again, if you can't weld now, or have little to no experience, it's not the welder for you.

 

 

2.

 

Tig welders are necessary for welding aluminum....if you're an amature or a very anal professional.

But tig welders will give you the best looking welds, and are capable of welding extremely strong.

 

given the choice, I'd buy a Tig over a MIG any day....but I do more sheet metal welding than anything.

 

my brother is buying a miller 220 TIG for $2000, and that's a good price.

 

 

3.

 

Mig welders are handy. from quick repairs to heavy welding....a 220 MIG is capable of what you need. an extremely good welder can weld aluminum with a MIG, but a beginner shouldn't try (unless practicing on scraps).

 

This would probably be your best bet.

 

you can find these used or for decent prices for under or around $800

[jtdesigns]

We just got in about 20 Lincoln 350mp's at school and they ROCK! Mig, tig, and stick, but d@mn their pricey.. All's I can tell you is get you a good used unit then step up.. 110 with gas, argon/co2 and let her rip. After you get good enough and feel you need more then upgrade. Skip the flux core,, I really don't like'em.. Spoiled I guess.. For welding structural parts, like perches, you don't need to do it without experience or training.. I mean its not only your life, but those around you if its not right and fails.. Get you a good, used, entry level machine and leave the big stuff for a professional, or go take a few classes on how to weld, get AWS/ASME certified.

[DirtyComanche]

Tig welders are necessary for welding aluminum....if you're an amature or a very anal professional.

But tig welders will give you the best looking welds, and are capable of welding extremely strong.

 

given the choice, I'd buy a Tig over a MIG any day....but I do more sheet metal welding than anything.

 

 

I've seen some very nice MIG welds done on aluminum. But, that was in a production environment. The MIG satisfies the need for speed (MIG is what, 10X faster than TIG? Maybe more), and the guys have everything in their favour in that they're welding every day and have stands/jigs for the part so there's no messing around. Some alloys shouldn't be MIG welded, but some shouldn't be welded period. So I consider it a tossup. 5051 or 5052 both can be MIG welded properly, and they're probably what should be used in an automotive application.

 

For sheetmetal or exotic metals, I understand the desire to have a TIG welder. For anything else, nah. Takes too long. I'm not building parts with 5 digit price tags, so I have trouble justifying the time with the amount of work that I always get myself into. Although, it would be really nice for doing stainless exhaust...

 

And a MIG will do fine sheetmetal easily enough. Just a little more cleanup/grinding. Thin wire is better (I'm guilty of ignoring this, I weld 20ga with .030 wire and wonder why it's so damn hard). Of course, I'm a hacker when it comes to body work. Bang the big dents out, smooth the really rough edges down with the grinder, then put lots of runs in the paint so nobody knows how many corners you cut!

[Darren]

When it comes to welders and boobs, bigger is better.

[BPB]

If you treat a flux core bead like a stick bead you will do fine, Although fux core is much more difficult to weld thin steel. I know that I can make a very nice weld with flux core. I do have a bottle, but I need to track down the leak in my welder. We made darren's bumper 90% with flux core, the only thing that we did with a 220v was burning in the d-rings. If you have the money get a 220v mig, if not go with 110v, just don't do the soa with 110v. You can have that welded for a reasonable price AE under $100 at about any offroad shop. Tig is great if you are wealthy. look on Craigslist. I got my 110v mig for $50 and it works great! :thumbsup:

[CWLONGSHOT]

Pat,

Don't be so down on flux core wire. It can get a bad rap cause its what them cheap cheap 100-150$ junk MiG machines use. Just like all MiG, with little practice the novice can do some nice welds! Its now as quite as easy and no where near as clean as gas W/ solid core wire, but it produces nice welds. As pointed out, the slag left is part of the shielding process. Its like opening a present, you done see the purdy weld, untill you scrub it a bit with a wire brush. Yes it must be cleaned, but so does the slag from a ARC/stick. I know, you know these are not junk... I do agree with you though on the aluminum. Its best left to someone with proper equipment and experience.

 

Here is a couple close-ups of a couple welds from my shock mounts. This is 1/4" thick "C" Channel, welded to 1/8" box steel. In the first pic you see the front side. The discolored steel is my welds from the back burning thru to the front. Second pic, is the weld on the back. All of these welds where done with my Lil 115V Hobart, Flux core .030 wire, on my back, upside down in the driveway.

 

 

Like I said, I am no expert with a welder. But I think there are good, well penetrating welds.

 

 

CW

[jeep_freek88]

Get A miller 220v mig and also buy the alum gun for aluminum ......... just run flux core with no gas for steel it will work fine.... For alum you need to use a shield gas ..... 100% argon.......... Plus if your outside you will find that flux core is much more desirable :brows: imho :yes:

[Deleted user]

dang and i thought i was confused before i started this thread.. but you know what they say about opinions... :D but if I'm reading this right for light duty work, a mig with flux core will be sufficient but if i want to do some heavy stuff perches bumpers etc i need to upgrade to a 220? why is the flux core better for working outside? less splatter I'm assuming?

[jpdocdave]

the reason he's stating for the flux core outside is w/ gas metal arc welding, the gas is blown away w/ the breeze, and doesn't shield the metal, making a poor weld.

 

flux core makes nasty welds, but definately penetrates.

[jeep_freek88]

the reason he's stating for the flux core outside is w/ gas metal arc welding, the gas is blown away w/ the breeze, and doesn't shield the metal, making a poor weld.

 

flux core makes nasty welds, but definately penetrates.

 

Dude you don't know what your talking about! Flux core is super easy to weld with. just because you can't weld with flux don't discourage people.........I have had the best luck with flux core....Very pretty welds of of a miller 220v flux core, but You can def tell the quality of the welder by the welds. Don't Be cheap A welder is an investment that can make you $$$$$$ :brows: :brows: If you know how to use it proporly. You can penetrate just as deep with solid core wire if you adjust your welder right..........Infact I think flux core is far more forgiving than solid core plus gas is a pain in the @$$ when you run out in the middle of a project....... :yes:

 

[jpdocdave]

the reason he's stating for the flux core outside is w/ gas metal arc welding, the gas is blown away w/ the breeze, and doesn't shield the metal, making a poor weld.

 

flux core makes nasty welds, but definately penetrates.

 

Dude you don't know what your talking about! Flux core is super easy to weld with. just because you can't weld with flux don't discourage people.........I have had the best luck with flux core....Very pretty welds of of a miller 220v flux core, but You can def tell the quality of the welder by the welds. Don't Be cheap A welder is an investment that can make you $$$$$$ :brows: :brows: If you know how to use it proporly. You can penetrate just as deep with solid core wire if you adjust your welder right..........Infact I think flux core is far more forgiving than solid core plus gas is a pain in the @$$ when you run out in the middle of a project....... :yes:

 

 

ummm...skip the "dude you don't know what you're talking about" crap. i'm simply saying what i was taught in welding school. flux core is considered one of the "ugliest" welds, but is also considered one of the strongest. does that mean you can't make decent looking welds with it, absolutely not.

 

so you don't know what you're talking about trying to tell me i don't. :no: :nuts:

[jeep_freek88]

the reason he's stating for the flux core outside is w/ gas metal arc welding, the gas is blown away w/ the breeze, and doesn't shield the metal, making a poor weld.

 

flux core makes nasty welds, but definately penetrates.

 

Dude you don't know what your talking about! Flux core is super easy to weld with. just because you can't weld with flux don't discourage people.........I have had the best luck with flux core....Very pretty welds of of a miller 220v flux core, but You can def tell the quality of the welder by the welds. Don't Be cheap A welder is an investment that can make you $$$$$$ :brows: :brows: If you know how to use it proporly. You can penetrate just as deep with solid core wire if you adjust your welder right..........Infact I think flux core is far more forgiving than solid core plus gas is a pain in the @$$ when you run out in the middle of a project....... :yes:

 

 

 

 

 

 

ummm...skip the "dude you don't know what you're talking about" crap. i'm simply saying what i was taught in welding school. flux core is considered one of the "ugliest" welds, but is also considered one of the strongest. does that mean you can't make decent looking welds with it, absolutely not.

 

so you don't know what you're talking about trying to tell me i don't. :no: :nuts:

 

LMAO ok sorry bob I guess that was sorta uncalled for, but when I was working as a welder welding all day we used alot of flux core and the welds had to be perfect, and they: were :cheers

[CWLONGSHOT]

the reason he's stating for the flux core outside is w/ gas metal arc welding, the gas is blown away w/ the breeze, and doesn't shield the metal, making a poor weld.

 

flux core makes nasty welds, but definitely penetrates.

 

Dude you don't know what your talking about! Flux core is super easy to weld with. just because you can't weld with flux don't discourage people.........I have had the best luck with flux core....Very pretty welds of of a miller 220v flux core, but You can def tell the quality of the welder by the welds. Don't Be cheap A welder is an investment that can make you $$$$$$ :brows: :brows: If you know how to use it properly. You can penetrate just as deep with solid core wire if you adjust your welder right..........In fact I think flux core is far more forgiving than solid core plus gas is a pain in the @$$ when you run out in the middle of a project....... :yes:

 

 

In freek88's defence, you did dis flux-core pretty bad. Any novice reading your post would surmise, flux core was bad stuff and should stay away. Well, simply stated, its not bad or hard to use. It produces as good welds as any other method and actually is preferred in some instances. Its also not the first negative comment against flux core in this thread.

 

Rjustham,

As always, on line when a question is asked on a forum, you get lots of answers, some good answers from first hand experiences. . But all too ofter, you get miss-information and conjecture. You know someone posts posts about this or that, he has a brother, who works with a guy who once read this or that sux... :shake: :fs1: :no:

 

CW

[Deleted user]

ok so ive done some reading on the net. What ive found is this, with flux you can weld steel but not aluminum, you can weld aluminum with a mig but have to use solid wire and argon. i also found where you can use stick to weld steel and aluminum, I'm assuming you would still need the shielding gas for the stick to weld aluminum right? do you need gas to weld steel wit the stick as well? the stick welders I have found are priced less than alot of the 120vlt migs ive found.

 

And yes I'm gonna do it again what are yalls thoughts on the differences?

[CWLONGSHOT]

OK so ive done some reading on the net. What ive found is this, with flux you can weld steel but not aluminum, you can weld aluminum with a mig but have to use solid wire and argon. I also found where you can use stick to weld steel and aluminum, I'm assuming you would still need the shielding gas for the stick to weld aluminum right? Do you need gas to weld steel with the stick as well? the stick welders I have found are priced less than alot of the 120vlt migs ive found.

 

And yes I'm gonna do it again what are yalls thoughts on the differences?

 

A "stick" or rather ARC welder uses welding rods clad in a coating that when burned creates an "atmosphere" to promote better stronger welds. NO other gas is used with this process.

I suppose aluminum could be welded, altho I have not herd of welding it with a ARC welder.

 

A MiG welder can use EITHER flux core wire, which produces this same "atmosphere" from the flux-core. Solid core wire is just that SOLID WIRE and needs the external shielding gas supplied from the tank to create proper welds. Yes aluminum can be welded, but doing so is "problematic" at best. As has been repeatedly suggested to you, LEAVE IT TO THE EXPERTS.

 

Good luck,

CW

 

Just go buy the best 220V MiG you can afford and leave your worries behind...