robfg67 Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Just a little bit of history. I’ve had a small oil leak for the past 12 months-usually only for a few minutes after the engine is turned off. Knowing that this repair is more involved, I changed the valve cover gasket & the 3 O-ring set in the oil filter assembly first but the leak continued. So I researched all of the posts I could find on this repair, completed the repair on Thursday afternoon, and started her up on Sunday afternoon. Well, more oil than ever is leaking from the area between the rear main seal and transmission bell housing. Oil is actually leaking from the seam on the bottom of the bell housing. Is there a gasket in the bell housing that could be causing this leak? I really don’t know what could have gone wrong with my repair. Oh, and Pete, nice job on the new look! :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 No gasket on the bellhousing as there should not be any fluid in there. If there's oili coming from that, it's either trickling down from the valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket, head gasket, or the rear main is shot. Your front bearing retainer on your tranny could also be leaking. I know the AX-5 and AX-15 have them, I can't remember if a BA 10/5 does. If that's leaking it would pour out the bottom of the bellhousing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Took me 4 or 5 tries to get the RMS of my 88 to stop leaking. Things like a nick on the new seal, not enough silicone added in the corners of the pan, or not waiting overnight to let the silicone cure made it a real nightmare. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 Another possibility is your internal slave could be leaking. Any clutch problems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robfg67 Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 I completed the repair on Thursday at about 4PM using the Permatex Black RTV. Pete, it cured for aproximately 2+ days. Geonovast, no clutch problems at all. All signs point to the RMS failing again, but I don't know how it could have happened. Like I said, I followed directions, took my time, and had no regrets or concerns when done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robfg67 Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 Pete, why did your '88 have to be done 4 times? Was it 4 different issues? Did you reuse the same oil pan gasket each time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 The original gasket was trashed when I removed it, so there was no reusing it. I used silicone to "glue" a new cork gasket to the pan and then reused it each time. If I had to do it again, I think I'd go with the late model XJ one-piece rubber gasket. I did the RMS back in 03 or 04 and it's been too long to remember all the details of what went wrong each time. A couple of those times could have been the same issue that maybe I didn't pick up on the first try. But I certainly remember having to drop the pan over and over. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robfg67 Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 Yeah, I used the 1-piece Fel-Pro blue gasket, so I might be able to reuse. The kick in the pants is that I don't know what the problem is so how will I know how to look for/correct the problem next time? This must be my lack of experience with this particular repair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted October 27, 2008 Share Posted October 27, 2008 I made educated guesses based on where it was leaking and what I saw upon tear-down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robfg67 Posted October 27, 2008 Author Share Posted October 27, 2008 After further relection on the repair, I may not have torqued the 2 RMS bolts to the full 80 pounds. I had an old Craftsman torque wrench with the needle and I may have gone a little shy of 80-although they were at least 70. My next step will be to tighten these bolts to the full 80. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I would never re-use a cork gasket. Get the one-piece rubber one, it's usually the same price, and you can re-use that one. When I bought the gasket set for my 88 4.0 it came with a rubber one, and it was a Fel-Pro set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I completed the repair on Thursday at about 4PM using the Permatex Black RTV. Pete, it cured for aproximately 2+ days. Geonovast, no clutch problems at all. All signs point to the RMS failing again, but I don't know how it could have happened. Like I said, I followed directions, took my time, and had no regrets or concerns when done. that alone would probably do it. use Ultrablack rtv because basic black RTV isn't rated for oil exposure, and eventually wears down if not immediately. as for why it is leaking... did you put the top half of the seal in the right way? it can go in two ways, and only one of them is correct. if you put it in the wrong way, there is a small gap on either side right where the two halves meet, and it will leak like a siv. (if you did this, buy a new seal do not attempt to re-use the one that is in it currently) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 Was there any groove in the crankshaft where the seal touches it? If so you might need the double lipped one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robfg67 Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 Corey, I used the 1-piece blue rubber Fel-Pro gasket and there was no oil leaking from any of the 24 bolts that hold the pan in place. ...and the oil was pouring out while I took it for a tet drive. There is a concentrated oil drip line all the way out the driveway & onto the street. JeepMJ, I was careful to place the new RMS in the correct direction. I read on several write-ups to be aware of the direction. I plan on buying a new RMS at the dealer today and will take your advice on the UltraBlack RTV and knowing now that Black is not rated for oil exposure gives me hope. Pete, I didn't notice any marks or grooves in the crankshaft, but I will pay closer attention next time. Does the dealer sell double-lipped seals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I don't know. It's just something I've heard about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddzz1 Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 I'm not sure but I don't think the dealer has the doubl lipped one. You can get it at NAPA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robfg67 Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 So, I took a closer look at the leak tonight and noticed that oil is leaking from a slot in the starter. The oil level is not over capacity-as a matter of fact it’s about a quart low. This ebay auction has a close-up picture of the slot. I did change the oil to 5W-30 after the RMS repair. I normally use 10W-40 but with cold weather coming I figured this might be better choice. Could a difference in oil weight cause it to leak out of the starter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted October 28, 2008 Share Posted October 28, 2008 If oil is leaking out of the starter, you have to find out how that oil is getting INTO the starter, as there isn't supposed to be any. Could it be leaking onto the starter from the oil filter bracket? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robfg67 Posted October 28, 2008 Author Share Posted October 28, 2008 I replaced the 3 O-ring set from the oil filter assembly a while back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PIKE Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 While your at it don't forget the distributor gasket. :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robfg67 Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 Thanks Dave-that has been changed too. I picked-up a new double lipped RMS from NAPA and I'll do it over on this Saturday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjeff87 Posted October 29, 2008 Share Posted October 29, 2008 funny you mention that location Rob.....I noticed on my 4.0 block when I took my starter out last week to drop the tranny that there is a machined hole on the "ear" of the block casting, directly above the starter. I never noticed it when I was rebuilding the engine, but saw it when I was underneath. It's about 3/4" in diameter, and I stuck my finger in it and it seemed to be open to the bottom end of the engine, but couldn't say for sure. If you drop a new seal in and pull your starter, do me a favor and check to see if you have the same hole as mine......I'm dying to know what it's for. Doesn't seem to make much sense to have an opening like that directly to the engine. Maybe oil is coming from there, if you have the same hole (???) Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robfg67 Posted October 29, 2008 Author Share Posted October 29, 2008 I'll take a picture and post it this weekend. I don't suspect that there is a problem with the starter. I RTV'd the heck out of the area and now the oil is leaking through the starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxRacing282 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 So, I took a closer look at the leak tonight and noticed that oil is leaking from a slot in the starter. The oil level is not over capacity-as a matter of fact it’s about a quart low. This ebay auction has a close-up picture of the slot. I did change the oil to 5W-30 after the RMS repair. I normally use 10W-40 but with cold weather coming I figured this might be better choice. Could a difference in oil weight cause it to leak out of the starter? my truck does the same thing :banana: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 that is not a rear main leak. in that location, it's either valve cover, distributor, or oil filter adapter. just because you replaced those too doesn't mean they don't leak. it's very easy to tear O-rings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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