redneck23ms Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 there is rubber around the pump at the mounts so its not touching metal anywhere. actually my oem one still works. but the tank was rusted out and leaking. which i was planning on relocating the tank to the bed anyways. with the fuel cell i have more room in the bed and it looks better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxRacing282 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 ahh. you know jb weld works wonders. we've patched gas tank with it before Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redneck23ms Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 i actually did patch the stock tank with jb-weld but the holes were in a bad spot right under the straps. plus it had some bad pitting all over the rear bottom of it that was also going to fail soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxRacing282 Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 sounds like its time for a DIY on fuel cell building. in NH its illegial to have a gas tank in the storage section of a bed unless its a factory gig. or its properly protected or something lame along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redneck23ms Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 this is mainly a trail rig. it will see some street time but very few miles. thankfully here in mississippi we can have the tank in the bed. they aren't too bad about inspections here. just gotta have all the lights and horn, seat belts, good windshield. everything else is pretty lax. i drove my old cherokee around for a year without doors and none of the cops ever said a word about it. again though it was also mainly just a trail rig. probably didn't put over 1500 miles on it in a years time if that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 the only thing out of spec with the way i did it is that its not covered in gas. but tell me how that is different then when the tank is nearly empty? It's no different ... and the XJ/MJ fuel pump is known for burning out if the tank is allowed to run too low. The pump needs the liquid around it for cooling. That's the way it was designed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pingpong Posted October 30, 2008 Share Posted October 30, 2008 I think what the guy did was made something work for his situation. Stop arguing over wether or not it will work, and let him tell us how it survives over the long haul. :smart: If it doesnt survive I recommend the MSD pump works good on my trail truggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redneck23ms Posted October 30, 2008 Author Share Posted October 30, 2008 thanks pingpong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redneck23ms Posted November 14, 2008 Author Share Posted November 14, 2008 just got the mj on the road this week. have made a couple of 30-45 minutes rides.so far the pump has worked flawlessly. i also installed a fuel filter between the tank and the pump. after the 30-45 minutes of constant running the pump isn't warm to the touch at all. going to take it on a shakedown trail ride sunday so that will be more of a test for it. since it will be several hours of mostly slow trail riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 just got the mj on the road this week. have made a couple of 30-45 minutes rides.so far the pump has worked flawlessly. i also installed a fuel filter between the tank and the pump. after the 30-45 minutes of constant running the pump isn't warm to the touch at all. going to take it on a shakedown trail ride sunday so that will be more of a test for it. since it will be several hours of mostly slow trail riding. it will work fine, until it fails, which it will. ingenious, and I give you props. but, it will fail unless you are extremely lucky. may not be for two years, or it may be in two days. who knows :dunno: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 When in Need of a inline pump I use a 1989 F150 Inline pump not the intank pump as there is two pumps on the F150... Not sure what it costs down your way but it is a realatively easy part to get no matter where you are if something happens... Good luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 When in Need of a inline pump I use a 1989 F150 Inline pump not the intank pump as there is two pumps on the F150... Not sure what it costs down your way but it is a realatively easy part to get no matter where you are if something happens... Good luck Does that pump produce suitable pressure/flow for EFI applications? I'd assume so, since I think even ford had figured out EFI by '89, but it is a ford... Oh, and on the debate if the pump will survive externally, somebody needs to shoot it with a lazer thermometer thinger while cold, then again while running. Then they need to submerge it in a gallon of gasoline at the same temperature as the 'cold' temp (which one could assume to be ambient), and place a regular (but calibrated) thermometer beside it in the fuel (ideally in contact with the pump) and allow the pump to run. Compare results. Honestly, I've never heard of a pump failing because a guy ran around with only a couple liters in the tank. I've heard of them failing from old age, however. Or because they were run dry while the guy ran the truck on propane (duh). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bpm4x4 Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 it will work fine, until it fails, which it will. ingenious, and I give you props. but, it will fail unless you are extremely lucky. may not be for two years, or it may be in two days. who knows :dunno: On a rig used mainly for wheeling, which he has already stated his is, I do not see why this is such a problem to you. Mine is in the tank and it will fail too, I think his idea is great because if that pump fails, you just go get another one and put it in (10 minute job). If you can change your OE style (that's in the tank) pump in 10-20 minutes, while your rig is sitting between a rock and a hard place (or muddy place), then you can critique his setup all you want. :thwak: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted November 15, 2008 Share Posted November 15, 2008 it will work fine, until it fails, which it will. ingenious, and I give you props. but, it will fail unless you are extremely lucky. may not be for two years, or it may be in two days. who knows :dunno: On a rig used mainly for wheeling, which he has already stated his is, I do not see why this is such a problem to you. Mine is in the tank and it will fail too, I think his idea is great because if that pump fails, you just go get another one and put it in (10 minute job). If you can change your OE style (that's in the tank) pump in 10-20 minutes, while your rig is sitting between a rock and a hard place (or muddy place), then you can critique his setup all you want. :thwak: safety and avoiding fire. use pumps as designed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redneck23ms Posted November 15, 2008 Author Share Posted November 15, 2008 again i'm sure it will fail at some point in time. all mechanical things will. but as cool as it ran on my test runs i don't see where its life span will be shortened very much. and again i don't see how you say its unsafe or a fire hazard. fuel pumps don't spontaneously combust. and if they did i would rather have one mounted on the frame rail when it did than in a tank full of fuel. when you come up with a realistic explanation for the unsafe fire hazard deal let me know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Actually, I'm pretty sure if the pump melts down in the tank it WON'T ignite the fuel, simply because there will not be enough oxygen. But I could be wrong... However, I doubt if it melted down externally it would really be any different. Why? It won't 'melt down'. It'll just stop. They're built in a manner that they basically have a fire shield between the pump motor and the vanes (where the fuel is). Maybe it'll get warmer being mounted externally, but by how much? If it is only 'warm to the touch' that tells us two possible things A) The pump isn't warm enough to be damaging itself - warm is fine since you're going to have trouble avoiding that regardless. Or B) The pump is insulated well enough that being submerged in fuel is unlikely to conduct enough heat away from it to be relevent. That said, I think if mounted externally one should take care to see that it is safe from all the usual suspects - mechanical damage, corrosion, shorting, etc. Or, a guy could buy this pump: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku Although, I'd have doubts about that pump. Since they don't mention anything about street/continous use. Ohwell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Ummmm, when I took apart my old fubar fuel pump to see what it looked like inside, the fuel was actually pumped *through* the motor, right by the armature. As long as there is fuel to be sucked in, the armature is completely immersed. That's not a bad thing, though. The contact points between the brushes and the armature create sparks. Not very bg ones, but a LOT of them. Multiple ones per revolution. But liquid gasoline does not burn. What burns are the gasoline vapors above the liquid. The other element needed is oxygen. Being immersed in liquid gasoline, you have no vapor and no oxygen available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Ummmm, when I took apart my old fubar fuel pump to see what it looked like inside, the fuel was actually pumped *through* the motor, right by the armature. As long as there is fuel to be sucked in, the armature is completely immersed. Hmm. I was explained that it was sealed... Although, if a guy looks at the design, it makes sense that it isn't. The inlet and outlet are on opposite sides. Well, my bad for believing a parts guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redneck23ms Posted November 17, 2008 Author Share Posted November 17, 2008 being that the fuel flows around the brushes and armature it doesn't matter if its mounted external or internal as long as there is fuel in the line/tank then there will be no vapor/oxygen in the pump. carry on with your flaming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 I've got to agree. The only thing I could see that would be an issue for pump life is if the fuel got too hot in general. Which could happen with either installation. Other than as stated, you should protect it from corrosion, mechanical damage, and shorting... You can get silicone covered connectors that will prevent any chance of shorting, and a little dielectic grease would keep the connectors from corroding. Not that I think your wiring on it is bad, as is. Paint the body if it isn't stainless or aluminum (I have no idea), and throw a simple guard over the entire thing (mae sure it covers the electrical connectors too) and I don't think you'd see any issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 being that the fuel flows around the brushes and armature it doesn't matter if its mounted external or internal as long as there is fuel in the line/tank then there will be no vapor/oxygen in the pump. carry on with your flaming. it's not flaming. I am going simply by what that specific pump is designed for. by putting it outside the pump, you are adding more variables to a pump which is not designed for that environment. it may well work just fine, but I am making an active attempt to have you be aware of the simple fact that the manufacture of the vehicle designed the vehicle in a way which put that pump IN the tank. they have their reasons for this, and while you may not be aware of any issues, the potential of you encountering them is much greater than those of us who run our pumps as per manufacturer's intent. I think your pump will burn out due to cooling issues. it likely will not start a fire, but with those contacts not being protected, and the fairly likely scenario of fuel vapors, you could have one hell of a bonfire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Does that pump produce suitable pressure/flow for EFI applications? I'd assume so, since I think even ford had figured out EFI by '89, but it is a ford... Yes the Ford is a 302 Fuel injected V8 for 1989 but it needs top be the inline pump and not one of the tank pumps and this is a good over the counter option... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarfoot Posted November 17, 2008 Share Posted November 17, 2008 Looks to me like all he needs is a can of liquid rubber insulation for sealing the electrical connections one or maybe two coats and a can of undercoat for the pump body. Gasoline has to have a pretty HOT flame to get it to ignite. A cigar will do it, but a cigarette will not. Flip a cigarette in a metal oil drain pan with say 1/2 inch of gas. The cigarette will go out. Back in the 60's I used to clean parts with gas and smoke at the same time. Gas or kerosene was all we had to clean with. That's why there is no ignition with the tiny sparks from the armature, Not hot enough. There is always some oxygen in the tank via the over flow. I don't think AMC was that meticulous. Besides it is running at an even lower voltage due to the resistor up on the DS fender. That voltage I do not recall but I am sure some one here does. I think that if AMC had received any reports of gas tank explosions due to running the pump dry then there defiantly would have been a recall. Never heard of one. I think the insurance companies would have been all over it too due to the risk involved, so would DOT. IMO, run it this way till you find a decent used gas tank. Paint it up for protection and return to the OEM design. Mainly due to the fact that the anchoring of the fuel cell is probabaly the weakest link. How do you check your gas level? Dip stick? Nothing wrong with that. I have to do that on my boat and it was designed that way by Chris Craft. I do give you credit for devising the set up. I'm more inclined to believe that someone has knocked a good size hole in their gas tank way out yonder and fabing up some type of replacement reservoir (5 gallon jerry can) just to get home and hooking up this way provides a way of getting the fuel to where it needs to go with a little extra wire and a few extra feet of fuel line. Might not even need the fuel line if you can get the jerry can to sit on the front bumper. If people don't try different ways and methods we would never move forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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