title issues...

[JeepcoMJ]

I'm picking up an MJ from a guy, and just GIVING it to a local jeeper because of his hard times with his jeep...he doesn't have an acceptable or even safe DD right now.

 

anyways, the #@#%$#^(^&( who has the comanche, never registered it. the other day he calls me and said "I signed it, it's all ready to go"...at which point i started saying a couple profain things to him (i know him personally, so he'll take it in stride).

 

he signed a title of a vehicle he's never registered. the only way I see for it to be registered now, is if he goes back to the PO before him and gets a new title, or if he comes with to the DMV to explain it. he won't come to the DMV, and i'm sure he won't bother with the PO.

 

is there any paperwork anywhere for him to sign acknowledging the mistake? i mean, what can we really do except have him register it, then sell it so this other guy can register it?

 

thanks in advance.

[LEAD_NOT_FOLLOW]

I know in Indiana if you go to the BMV you can get a form for this exact issue. They will contact the owner (you may have to have the original owner present) to confirm it and they than transfer everything as normal.

 

I would assume that most BMV's in other states have a similar procedure that they follow for this issue. Give them a call and explain the situation and I'm sure they can tell you exactly what needs to be done.

[brigarpeon]

I know in Indiana if you go to the BMV you can get a form for this exact issue. They will contact the owner (you may have to have the original owner present) to confirm it and they than transfer everything as normal.

 

I would assume that most BMV's in other states have a similar procedure that they follow for this issue. Give them a call and explain the situation and I'm sure they can tell you exactly what needs to be done.

 

You could also have the PO apply for a lost Title. Our DVM also has a form for Title mistakes but again you will need to PO to appear in front of the notary for verification.

Now; if the PO signed it on the seller line, your buddy signed it as the buyer and the transaction is under $500, you could probably take it to the notary to get processed. The title will come back in his name and then you can take the Title. A bill of Sale would help out greatly at the notary because of the two signatures the PO WILL NOT need to be present. The bad part of the deal is now there's some guy who doesn't own the jeep legally trying to sign the title as the seller. That could get your names' on the G.T.A. hotline

Good Luck

[jtdesigns]

or you could contact your dmv and ask them whats the procedure for receiving a lost title..

[Eagle]

I don't understand the problem. Registration has nothing to do with it. He owned it, he signed the title. If you're just passing it along to someone else, your name doesn't even have to appear on any papers. The next owner just takes the signed title, fills in his name as the recipient, and goes to the DMV.

 

I've seen vehicles with a signed title pass through several sets of hands before someone finally took the paperwork to the DMV and became the new owner. So what if the "seller" never saw or even heard of the "buyer"?

 

Also, I don't know about WI but CT has a form called "Supplemental transfer of motor vehicle" that is used for such situations. It can be used as a simple bill-of-sale, and it can also be used if one person buys a vehicle, then sells it again without ever reistering it or getting a new title. The supplemental transfer form has the same spaces as the transfer block on the back of the title, so by using supplemental transfers a vehicle can legally pass through an infinite number of owners before anyone gets it registered and a new title issued. It's no big deal.

[CWLONGSHOT]

I don't understand the problem. Registration has nothing to do with it. He owned it, he signed the title. If you're just passing it along to someone else, your name doesn't even have to appear on any papers. The next owner just takes the signed title, fills in his name as the recipient, and goes to the DMV.

 

I've seen vehicles with a signed title pass through several sets of hands before someone finally took the paperwork to the DMV and became the new owner. So what if the "seller" never saw or even heard of the "buyer"?

 

Also, I don't know about WI but CT has a form called "Supplemental transfer of motor vehicle" that is used for such situations. It can be used as a simple bill-of-sale, and it can also be used if one person buys a vehicle, then sells it again without ever reistering it or getting a new title. The supplemental transfer form has the same spaces as the transfer block on the back of the title, so by using supplemental transfers a vehicle can legally pass through an infinite number of owners before anyone gets it registered and a new title issued. It's no big deal.

 

Thats how I remember it to. I have had to do it twice now.

 

NO BIG BEAL here, hope its not got you either!!

 

CW

[Twisty]

I don't understand the problem. Registration has nothing to do with it. He owned it, he signed the title. If you're just passing it along to someone else, your name doesn't even have to appear on any papers. The next owner just takes the signed title, fills in his name as the recipient, and goes to the DMV.

 

I've seen vehicles with a signed title pass through several sets of hands before someone finally took the paperwork to the DMV and became the new owner. So what if the "seller" never saw or even heard of the "buyer"?

 

Also, I don't know about WI but CT has a form called "Supplemental transfer of motor vehicle" that is used for such situations. It can be used as a simple bill-of-sale, and it can also be used if one person buys a vehicle, then sells it again without ever reistering it or getting a new title. The supplemental transfer form has the same spaces as the transfer block on the back of the title, so by using supplemental transfers a vehicle can legally pass through an infinite number of owners before anyone gets it registered and a new title issued. It's no big deal.

 

In Mass, there is only ONE spot for the owner to sign the vehicle over. The names on the front of the title, and on the back MUST match.

 

Then again...it is Mass we're talking about :popcorn:

[beaterjeep]

The way I'm reading it is that Pat is buying it from a guy that never registered it, therefore the title is NOT in his name, but still in the PO's name. Then when selling it to Pat, he signed the title with his name in the seller's spot. Now, being that the registered name on the title doesn't match up with the name on the signature, therein lies the problem; the names not matching up.

[Eagle]

In Mass, there is only ONE spot for the owner to sign the vehicle over. The names on the front of the title, and on the back MUST match.

 

Then again...it is Mass we're talking about :popcorn:

MA is MUCH easier than CT. A friend of my wife's (from CT) bought a used car from a small, independent dealer just over the line in Massachusetts. Went to register the car, and the DMV told her the papers weren't right so they wouldn't touch it. Dealer told her the papers were fine, so he refused to do anything.

 

I took the papers and went to a branch where I know one of the inspectors. He called the supervisor over, and we spent about a half hour figuring out what had happened. Seems the original owner was from Virginia, and had bought the car there. She then traded it in at a Toyota dealer in MA, and had her VA title signed over to the Toyota dealer. The Toyota dealer then auctioned the car, and it was bought by the independent.

 

Whatever document the Toyota dealer used to transfer title to the independent said CLEARLY on the face that it was not valid for transfer of title. But both the Toyota dealer and the independent swore on stacks of bibles that they use that form for transfers all the time.

 

In the end, I drove one 200 mile round trip to get the correct document from the Tpoyota dealer. Then the independent wasn't there that day, so I did another 200 mile round trip to get his signature on the correct form, all so the poor lady could register the car she had bought.

 

DON'T talk to me about Massachusetts!

[Eagle]

The way I'm reading it is that Pat is buying it from a guy that never registered it, therefore the title is NOT in his name, but still in the PO's name. Then when selling it to Pat, he signed the title with his name in the seller's spot. Now, being that the registered name on the title doesn't match up with the name on the signature, therein lies the problem; the names not matching up.

Gotcha.

 

Yeah, that could be a problem.

[NewToJeeps]

I don't know if this will help you or not. But here in Alabama its pretty simple. I run into this alot in my line of work. What i do is just hold onto the title so i have the numbers the last title holder has on the title and file for a lost title. It cost me 15 bucks each time. I get the new title and go look up the last owner. Normally they sign it for me with no problem and the deal is done. No problems. Just trash the old title when you get the new one signed and then get it registered in your name or whoever you want it in.

[JeepcoMJ]

The way I'm reading it is that Pat is buying it from a guy that never registered it, therefore the title is NOT in his name, but still in the PO's name. Then when selling it to Pat, he signed the title with his name in the seller's spot. Now, being that the registered name on the title doesn't match up with the name on the signature, therein lies the problem; the names not matching up.

Gotcha.

 

Yeah, that could be a problem.

 

nope.

 

this guy bought it from the original owner. he drove it, but never registered it (he's literally the dumbest person I'll ever meet). he signed the BUYER'S spot. so, the original owner signed the seller's spot, then he signed the buyer's spot.

 

I suppose they could both go to the DMV, and be co-owners then sign the paperwork a week or so later to remove this guy from the papers. just not too sure really.

 

I'm just not sure what to do. the kid's a moron, so I want him out of the deal. I'm giving it to scorpio_vette from scorpion automotive (wi4x4.com member) in milwaukee, because I don't need it, and he REALLY does need a shop vehicle right now.

[robfg67]

First of all, JeepcoMJ, your a good man for doing all this!

 

I have stood in many a line at the Registry of Motor Vehicles here in Massachusetts holding my breath while the clerck inspects the title like its an ancient sea scroll.

 

In my experience, your title-which is a legal document is ruined. You could try to explain your situation over the phone to your local RMV person-but in reality, you need to go down to the office with ALL of your documents and find out what your next step is.

 

Good luck, brother!

[Eagle]

nope.

 

this guy bought it from the original owner. he drove it, but never registered it (he's literally the dumbest person I'll ever meet). he signed the BUYER'S spot. so, the original owner signed the seller's spot, then he signed the buyer's spot.

 

I suppose they could both go to the DMV, and be co-owners then sign the paperwork a week or so later to remove this guy from the papers. just not too sure really.

 

I'm just not sure what to do. the kid's a moron, so I want him out of the deal. I'm giving it to scorpio_vette from scorpion automotive (wi4x4.com member) in milwaukee, because I don't need it, and he REALLY does need a shop vehicle right now.

Then there shouldn't be a problem. The DMV does not need to know he was driving it without a registration. By the paper trail, he is the legal owner. There's no law that says you must drive a vehicle when you buy it, right? So he bought it, and now he wants to sell it. Ask the DMV if they have a supplemental transfer form, like the one we have in CT, for such situations. This CAN'T be the first time somoen in WI has wanted to sell a vehicle without ever putting tags on it.

[JeepcoMJ]

nope.

 

this guy bought it from the original owner. he drove it, but never registered it (he's literally the dumbest person I'll ever meet). he signed the BUYER'S spot. so, the original owner signed the seller's spot, then he signed the buyer's spot.

 

I suppose they could both go to the DMV, and be co-owners then sign the paperwork a week or so later to remove this guy from the papers. just not too sure really.

 

I'm just not sure what to do. the kid's a moron, so I want him out of the deal. I'm giving it to scorpio_vette from scorpion automotive (wi4x4.com member) in milwaukee, because I don't need it, and he REALLY does need a shop vehicle right now.

Then there shouldn't be a problem. The DMV does not need to know he was driving it without a registration. By the paper trail, he is the legal owner. There's no law that says you must drive a vehicle when you buy it, right? So he bought it, and now he wants to sell it. Ask the DMV if they have a supplemental transfer form, like the one we have in CT, for such situations. This CAN'T be the first time somoen in WI has wanted to sell a vehicle without ever putting tags on it.

 

 

*sigh

 

this isn't as difficult as you're making it.

 

he SIGNED the buyer's location on the title, then NEVER REGISTERED IT or took it to the DMV.

 

this means that the title is no longer a valid form, unless this guy (the middle man who was dumb enough to sign the title in the buyer's location, but doesn't wish to finish the action by actually registering it in his name so he can legally sell it), were to actually finish the transfer, then sign in the SELLER'S location on the new title, so that he can sell it.

 

 

back down to the facts here;

 

PO sells jeep (signs seller location on the title)

Buyer of jeep drives it over a year, without ever swapping title into his name

Buyer wants to sell jeep

Buyer signs in Buyer's location on the title

now, the buyer from the buyer (technically me) doesn't have an option to re-register the car, because the original buyer is an idiot.

 

 

that should get us back to the facts.

[UNL1MTD]

This happened to me (near exactly) when I bought my first MJ. Luckily the guy I bought it from whom accidently signed the title was honest enough to retitle the vehicle in his name (thereby getting him on the title) and then giving me the new title. This mistake costs him about 60 bucks in DMV fees.

 

Short of it, guy had to retitle it for a fee in order to get a new title to sell it to me legally.

[Eagle]

he SIGNED the buyer's location on the title, then NEVER REGISTERED IT or took it to the DMV.

So what? He bought it. Who else should sign it?

 

this means that the title is no longer a valid form, unless this guy (the middle man who was dumb enough to sign the title in the buyer's location, but doesn't wish to finish the action by actually registering it in his name so he can legally sell it), were to actually finish the transfer, then sign in the SELLER'S location on the new title, so that he can sell it.

You are the one making it sound more difficult than it is.

 

Unless Wisconsin has laws very different from the other 49 states, the title and the registration are two different things. I dropped the registration on my '87 MJ about three years ago because I wasn't driving it and couldn't afford to insure it. But the title is still valid. I still own the vehicle. I have several other XJs and MJs here that I have never registered. But I own them.

 

So your pal bought an MJ and didn't register it. So what? He still has a title form the assigns the title to him. It is his vehicle. I seriously doubt that the law requires him to register it, and I seriously doubt that the law establishes any maximum time that can elapse before a purchaser of a motor vehicle decides to register or sell the vehicle.

 

Maybe WI is different, but I'm telling you that here we can pass a vehicle through ten different owners, using the "supplemental assignment of title" form, before anyone ever gets around to registering the vehicle and/or having a new title issued.

 

Call your DMV and ask them if they have such a form. Do NOT tell them your friend has been driving the vehicle without a registration. That's an operation matter. This is an ownership matter. The fact he didn't register it does not matter. As far as this question is concerned, the vehicle could have been stored in his garage since he bought it, or sitting out in the north pasture getting rained and snowed on. It doesn't matter.

 

What matters is the paper trail, and so far the paper trail has NOT been broken.

[JeepcoMJ]

but he SIGNED the title...how is that to be properly explained and/or worked around. the REGISTRAR of the vehicle is the one who signs the title...meaning that he would have to do so.

 

I'm not sure if you understand that this is a problem here; the title, gets signed by the person who takes it to register it (I use register loosely as it can also simply be a transfer of title). either way, that means that it's gonna be harder for us to get this done, and cost money for a frickin notary, or cost money to have the darn title put in his name first, then transferred to scorpio_vette's name

[CEThomas]

Have you called the DMV / county registrar yet and talked to them????

 

I had the same thing on a car and all they done in OH was charged the $15 fee for the title to put into the name of the guy I got it from charge a $5 fine for not doing the title in the first 30 days then they made up another title into my name for another $15. It was a wast of paper/ titles and cost me an extra $20 but it was not a problem. They also told me that they do it all the time.

 

How much is the cost for titles and notary in WI? In Oh most notary is $0-$2.

 

In fact I have the title from the XJ that I am parting out that is the same thing, the guy I got it off of never changed the title into his name prior to giving me the title.

[JeepcoMJ]

wisconsin doesn't require title transfer to be notarised, so i don't even know where to look on that one.

 

nope. haven't called as I'm not around til after hours :cry:

[Tracker]

Of all places, California actually has a good process for such snafu's. You take what you have to the DMV and tell the nice lady at the counter what's going on. She will scowl at you, ask a question or two, and say, "You'll have to fill this out. It's called a Statement of Facts". It's a form that essentially becomes a signed, written version of the story you told her. You may have to get a VIN# verification too. Then you pay the fees, go home, and wait to find out what the PO didn't tell you about. The reason the PO never put it in his name may surface during the ensuing title history search. If there's no problems you get your papers within 60 days.

Of course, you may be in for a surprise too.

[Eagle]

but he SIGNED the title...how is that to be properly explained and/or worked around. the REGISTRAR of the vehicle is the one who signs the title...meaning that he would have to do so.

 

I'm not sure if you understand that this is a problem here; the title, gets signed by the person who takes it to register it (I use register loosely as it can also simply be a transfer of title). either way, that means that it's gonna be harder for us to get this done, and cost money for a frickin notary, or cost money to have the darn title put in his name first, then transferred to scorpio_vette's name

Pat, the problem is that you are trying to bend this into a process that skips steps. Your friend bought an MJ. He should have had his name put on the title as buyer the day he bought the vehicle. That's what that space on the back of the title is for. He became the owner on that day. The fact is, if your pal had crashed the truck with no name on the title, he could have told the cops he borrowed it from the original owner, and that poor dolt would have had a hard time explaining that he hadn't owned the vehicle for 8 months.

 

You are trying to make it appear that your pal never owned the truck, that the original seller sold it directly to you. That isn't what happened, and filling out the paperwork to make it appear so is technically fraudulent. Yeah, I know it's done all the time ... that does NOT make it right or legal. You are trying to make your friend's ___ months of ownership disappear. Why do that? There's no legal reason why he could NOT own a vehicle for ___ months and then sell it to you.

 

I won't sell a vehicle without putting the buyer's name on the title when I hand it to them. I am NOT going to put my neck in a noose for what someone I've never seen before does with a motor vehicle I will no longer have any control over. My name comes off the title the day they drive it (or tow it) out of my yard.

 

You are confusing ownership with registration. Call the DMV, explain to them what the situation is, and ask them what form to use for a secondary transfer. Do not tell them your friend was driving it. That doesn't enter into the discussion. The important fact is, he bought it ___ months ago, he did not register it, now he wants to sell it. What piece of paper is needed to do that?

[dragonrider477]

that title is ruined now.if you live in an a@@hole state(most states are in regards to titles),you are screwed.this exact thing happened to me with a title for a 99 chev van i bought in NH on ebay.i was'nt too familiar with their titles,(i lived in ny at the time) and did'nt notice that the title was signed improperly.long story short.after trying to jump through all the bulls@@t hoops at dmv's in NY and NH.i gave up and hired a title service out of maine that somehow weaseled me a AZ title.took months and 650 dollars to get it done.moral of story.unless you are buying something for parts,MAKE SURE the title is PERFECT.ONCE THE SELLER HAS YOUR MONEY,HE WILL NEVER LIFT A FINGER TO HELP YOU WITH A TITLE PROBLEM.with most states,it's all about sales tax collected on casual used car sales between individuals.they want you to title a vehicle as soon as you buy it even if you don't put plates on it. they want that sales tax money from the sale.when cars transfer from person to person with out the PO titling it,they lose out on the tax.

[brigarpeon]

The MJ STILL BELONGS to the owner whose name appears on the Title at the last Registration. Two signatures on a title DO NOT make a legal owner out of the moron kid, all that says is that an agreement was struck but never followed through on. Let's say this truck would be left to set at a business or HOA policed area. They would take the vin numbers and run the system. Guess who they would call for the fine money? Hint: it won't be the moron kid.

Get the PO and moron together; pay the fine for no registration and get the title in the morons name. Then you can get it in the shop's name when you get the title back, another registration. Here you can't give a gift vehicle to anyone who isn't directly related to yourself.

The only other option is LOST Title but you will need the PO.

[NewToJeeps]

This sounds like a whole lot of work here. Just go to the DMV and tell them your friend messed up the title and you need the form to get it fixed. Your gonna have some paper work to fill out and probably a few weeks of waiting on the state to get up and stick it back in the mail box. It's not really a big deal it's just alot of time to get something fairly simple done. It's a pain in the a$$ but it can be done.

I have had to do it several times and each time its the same thing. Go show the DMV your title and they give you a form to fill out and have your friend sign (if he won't go to the DMV with you tell them he is disabled and can't take the ride, it works for me) and then get his name on it. Bring the form back to the DMV. They do a 15 dollar title search and if there are no liens or loans against it you now have your new title.