More Axle Questions

[TeKdo]

It's your favorite, uniformed Comanche owner back again to ask more questions about the mighty Dana 35.

 

In my last post I was asking about the differences between an XJ and Liberty 8.25 since I want to regear my Comanche.

 

A lot of people had suggested that since I only want to run 31s and I have the mighty 2.5, I should just stick with the Dana 35 since an 8.25 with 31s would be about the same ground clearance as the Dana 35 with 29's. So I tried to do more research on the Dana 35 but mainly came up with "Just run a Super 35 kit" or "Turdy5 is junk, get rid of it", with one outlier from this forum saying that the non C-Clip Dana 35s were stout little axles for what they were designed to do.

 

The Dana 35 in my Comanche is a NON C-Clip Dana 35. I unfortunately cannot run a Super 35 kit in this axle because Superior no longer offers an alloy axles shaft kit for NON C-CLIP Dana 35s. This is the main reason I would swap the axle. I am really really paranoid of breaking an axle shaft and having the truck be down while I search for a spare axle shaft and I fell victim to the forum legend of the AX5 fragility multiple times).

 

By my math, I would need to run a 4.88 final drive to bring my truck back to stock ratios with 31s (I have an AX15 swap that has different ratios from the AX5 for 5th and 1st). I would also like to swap out the factory Trak Lok limited slip to a Yukon Duragrip, Sparan Helical, or Eaton Truectrac LSD in the future once it's worn out.

 

So, would my Dana 35 disintegrate it's stock axle shafts with 4.88s and a Limited slip? I don't do a whole lot of offroading, mainly just hauling motorcycles and other junk with my truck. I have gotten close to the stock recommended payload before (right around 1000lbs plus me and my dad in the cab) but I also know that my truck is a little bit lighter than the stock specification as well (Right around 3100lbs with a half tank and me in the driver's seat).

 

The only hard thing that this axle sees besides me hauling junk to the dump are clutch kicking in the snow, losing grip and regaining grip while turning on patchy surfaces in the wet and towing my brother's Civic out of the snow whenever he gets stuck.

 

Sorry if I seem really dumb, I really don't know a whole lot about Jeeps once I mostly deal with import cars and motorcycles and finding information on what I can and can't do with this axle has been frustrating.

[89 MJ]

Losing and regaining grip or clutch dumps on dry surfaces and it not spinning the tires is going to be what will break axle shafts. That can be as simple as not dumping the clutch when it’s dry and if you’re in a situation where you lose grip, lift off the gas. Don’t stay in it because that’ll be extra shock when the tires hook up again. 
 

If you drive smart, the D35 will live. Between me and my parents, 5 out of our 6 D35s have survived abuse and clutch dumps. The 6th one was an AMC 15 (Dana later bought this design and called it the 35) and was behind an auto, but had 2 piece axle shafts and the spines where the two pieces meet stripped out. I have another D35 with a locker that was on a lifted XJ with 4:10s and survived, but I haven’t run it at all. 
 

If you’re worried about it, find a different component to be your weak link. In the case of our Jeeps, the tires were always the weak link. They’d break loose before the axle would break. Unless you’re dead set on 31x10.50R15s, it might be worth looking into 30x9.50R15 tires or even stick with 235/75R15s. The smaller contact patch will perform better in the snow and it will hopefully break loose on dry pavement before damage occurs. You don’t need huge tires or lockers to be able to play off road. I wish I learned that earlier because it can save a lot of time and money. That said, there’s nothing wrong with having big tires because they look cool. 
 

Or consider the tire compound. Maybe look at a tire that’s designed more for road use than for trail use. A more road friendly tire will most likely have a harder compound and spin easier than a more aggressive off road tire. 

[TeKdo]

1 hour ago, 89 MJ said:

If you drive smart, the D35 will live. Between me and my parents, 5 out of our 6 D35s have survived abuse and clutch dumps. The 6th one was an AMC 15 (Dana later bought this design and called it the 35) and was behind an auto, but had 2 piece axle shafts and the spines where the two pieces meet stripped out. I have another D35 with a locker that was on a lifted XJ with 4:10s and survived, but I haven’t run it at all. 

Good to know. I'm pretty ginger with the clutch in my truck because I'm afraid that I'll break something again and I really don't want to drop the transmission and transfer case to fix it again. I'll probably just look into re-gearing the 30 and 35 to save some time instead of doing a full axle swap for basically no reason.

 

1 hour ago, 89 MJ said:

If you’re worried about it, find a different component to be your weak link. In the case of our Jeeps, the tires were always the weak link. They’d break loose before the axle would break. Unless you’re dead set on 31x10.50R15s, it might be worth looking into 30x9.50R15 tires or even stick with 235/75R15s. The smaller contact patch will perform better in the snow and it will hopefully break loose on dry pavement before damage occurs. You don’t need huge tires or lockers to be able to play off road. I wish I learned that earlier because it can save a lot of time and money. That said, there’s nothing wrong with having big tires because they look cool. 

I mainly want to switch to 31s for tire availability. Most places that I've been its really easy to get your hands on 31/10.50/15s with 235/75/15s needing to be ordered at least a day or two ahead. I don't really mind doing that when I just need to replace a tire because it's wore out, but I do get nervous while road tripping this thing about getting the dreaded double flat and needing to replace a pair of tires. I've unfortunately had that bad luck on multiple road trips and its been a headache every time that it's happened because of the car's stupid tire size (not specifically for 235/75/15s, but for 205/50/15s and 195/50/15s on smaller cars). While I have thought that switching to a harder compound would probably lead to a higher chance of the axle surviving...I can't bring myself to put HTs on this truck. It's been on the same style Goodyear Wranglers for the better part of 40 years...its how my Grandpa bought the truck back in '86 and I don't really want to go and change the style that he had it in too much. I would definitely want to have the white lettering back though, the new Goodyears that I put on this thing to get it back on the road are all black and just don't quite look right. Either way the tires are coming at a way later date when these things are wore out, the re-gear is the most important thing that needs to happen to the truck next, the 2.5 feels way gutless with the AX15s gear ratios compared to the stock AX5.

 

Also if 235/75/15 is a common tire size and I just got unlucky when I went tire shopping over the summer please let me know, I'd probably keep running this tire size if that was the case.

[Billabob]

The dana 35 gets a bad rep but it can definitely handle more than people think. I used to do scrap metal runs in my truck and it wasn't uncommon to throw 2-3000lbs in the back. Add some NYC potholes into the mix and you've got a recipe for disaster but it never gave me any issues. The comanche is my first car as well so its seen a fair share of clutch dumps and donuts in the snow. It's even got a BA10 trans in it, smooth as butter still. 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, 89 MJ said:

The smaller contact patch will perform better in the snow and it will hopefully break loose on dry pavement before damage occurs. You don’t need huge tires or lockers to be able to play off road.

I strongly agree with this point. On lighter trucks, narrow tires will dig into the snow rather than float on it. Side bonus, better gas mileage. Going from 10.5 Grabbers to 9.5 Duratracs was a game changer.

[75sv1]

First, I think you'd need a 3.55 gear ratio with 31's and a manual trans. I have 3.73's and 31's with an auto on my 2000 XJ. Does good on flat lands. OK in the mountains. I hear the main issues with a C-clip D35 is it doesn't retain the axle shaft. Yours is non - C Clip and has Discs brakes. The dics help retain the axle vs drum brakes. 

        

[75sv1]

Also, I run a Metric tire on the 2000. It is about 9 to 9.5 width. I haven't had it much in the snow yet. Mine are also 3 Peaks. So, semi snow tire. 

[Eagle_SX4]

Dutchman axles out of Idaho makes some 1541h axles for the non clip 35. I have not dealt with them yet but am thinking about getting new axle shafts for my c clip 35 from them. Their axle selection is a little confusing but just look at the chart they have linked in the description. I think you will need the sr399 axle shafts.

 

https://dutchmanaxles.com/jeep-scout-ih-stock-replacement-rear-axle-pair.html

[89 MJ]

6 hours ago, TeKdo said:

Good to know. I'm pretty ginger with the clutch in my truck because I'm afraid that I'll break something again and I really don't want to drop the transmission and transfer case to fix it again. I'll probably just look into re-gearing the 30 and 35 to save some time instead of doing a full axle swap for basically no reason.

 

I mainly want to switch to 31s for tire availability. Most places that I've been its really easy to get your hands on 31/10.50/15s with 235/75/15s needing to be ordered at least a day or two ahead. I don't really mind doing that when I just need to replace a tire because it's wore out, but I do get nervous while road tripping this thing about getting the dreaded double flat and needing to replace a pair of tires. I've unfortunately had that bad luck on multiple road trips and its been a headache every time that it's happened because of the car's stupid tire size (not specifically for 235/75/15s, but for 205/50/15s and 195/50/15s on smaller cars). While I have thought that switching to a harder compound would probably lead to a higher chance of the axle surviving...I can't bring myself to put HTs on this truck. It's been on the same style Goodyear Wranglers for the better part of 40 years...its how my Grandpa bought the truck back in '86 and I don't really want to go and change the style that he had it in too much. I would definitely want to have the white lettering back though, the new Goodyears that I put on this thing to get it back on the road are all black and just don't quite look right. Either way the tires are coming at a way later date when these things are wore out, the re-gear is the most important thing that needs to happen to the truck next, the 2.5 feels way gutless with the AX15s gear ratios compared to the stock AX5.

 

Also if 235/75/15 is a common tire size and I just got unlucky when I went tire shopping over the summer please let me know, I'd probably keep running this tire size if that was the case.

I couldn’t give up an all terrain either. If you and I are thinking of the same Goodyear Wranglers, those would be perfect and not have too much bite. I just wanted to make sure you didn’t want to go with a mud terrain or very aggressive all terrain. 
 

I would say that 237/75s are a very common tire. Most 70s-90s 4x4s had them. I think that was just unlucky. 
 

15s are definitely getting harder to find though. Just like how 14s became obsolete when 15s came out, 15s are getting phased out now that everything is on 17s or bigger for the most part. 

[ghetdjc320]

A gear driven limited slip will be good for those axle shafts. Also, you can get 1541 axle shafts for your non c clip axle on rock auto. You must have found some pretty old info out there as superior axle has been out of the game for a long time. Revolution axle is the new superior after it was dissolved/reorganized. I remember having long discussions about the 35 on Jeep forum back when the 8.8 was the latest fad. In a nutshell, your plan is sound. Just grab some 1541 shafts and a trutrac or similar and have at it. A good stout diff cover never hurts either. At 4.88 gears, that should be pretty easy on that ax5 tranny. 

[TeKdo]

4 hours ago, Eagle_SX4 said:

Dutchman axles out of Idaho makes some 1541h axles for the non clip 35.

Interesting, I haven't come across those guys in my search for axles yet. The only one that I found for non C-Clip 35s was Alloy USA and their axles were also a little confusing.

 

3 hours ago, 89 MJ said:

If you and I are thinking of the same Goodyear Wranglers

I've got the Wrangler Trail runner ATs on the truck right now, nowhere has Duratracs in stock and I didn't have the money at the time and they matched the 20 year old Wranglers I took off the truck.

 

2 hours ago, ghetdjc320 said:

At 4.88 gears, that should be pretty easy on that ax5 tranny. 

I think 4.88s would make this thing way more drive able, I might even be able to climb hills in 4th gear! Also I ditched the AX5 for an AX15 with an Advance Adapters Swap Kit.

 

2 hours ago, ghetdjc320 said:

1541 axle shafts for your non c clip axle on rock auto

What application are you guys seeing Alloy Axles for the Non C-Clip 35 on Rock Auto for? Whenever I search for something like an 86 Comanche I only ever get alloy axles for a Dana 44 in the search.

[TeKdo]

6 hours ago, Billabob said:

The dana 35 gets a bad rep but it can definitely handle more than people think. I used to do scrap metal runs in my truck and it wasn't uncommon to throw 2-3000lbs in the back. Add some NYC potholes into the mix and you've got a recipe for disaster but it never gave me any issues. The comanche is my first car as well so its seen a fair share of clutch dumps and donuts in the snow. It's even got a BA10 trans in it, smooth as butter still. 

That's what my truck looks like whenever I take it out to grab building materials for stuff around the house! I always thought I was overloading it, almost considering adding airbags or another overload leaf to being the headlights back down when I'm hauling stuff just so I don't blindly people.

[gogmorgo]

I’ve got what is as best as I can tell still the original d35 in my 4.0 longbed at 550,000km, and I’ve done nothing to it. So I don’t have any doubts that the D35 can hold up to reasonable use. I even had 31’s on it last winter, and I haven’t exactly babied the truck. 
But I also spent a bunch of money on the D35 in my ZJ, only to have it bend an axle shaft within a year, grenade a wheel end bearing and have the glitter storm wipe out everything I did to it. So I’m cautious about advising putting money into one.

 

But if you’re looking for a good cover, I got the Dana “aftermarket” modular cast cover, and I’m pretty happy with it. Also available on RockAuto. My biggest reason for changing the cover was to get a drain plug so you don’t need to pull the whole cover to change the oil.
The Dana cover is a lot cheaper than some of the other options with drain plugs, and it’s the only one I’ve seen that is the same shape as the original stamped cover to maintain the proper oil flow pattern off the ring gear. IMO this is pretty important for avoiding aeration, a loss in proper flow isn’t usually made up for by larger capacity. 
 

If you’re pulling the axle to do the work to it you might want to consider putting new springs in at the same time. Or at minimum getting a local shop to re-arch yours, they’ll likely add another leaf to the pack too to make up for the steel weakening from use. The leafs have had weight sitting on them for almost 40 years now and they’re probably sagged quite a bit.

Air bags will screw with your brake proportioning if you still have the load-sensing valve in the system.

[ghetdjc320]

47 minutes ago, TeKdo said:

What application are you guys seeing Alloy Axles for the Non C-Clip 35 on Rock Auto for? Whenever I search for something like an 86 Comanche I only ever get alloy axles for a Dana 44 in the search.

USA21651 and USA21653 are the part numbers for 1541 bolt in shafts. Look for an 89 Cherokee. Also reach out to revolution axle. Pretty sure they have the shafts as well

[TeKdo]

11 hours ago, gogmorgo said:

But if you’re looking for a good cover, I got the Dana “aftermarket” modular cast cover, and I’m pretty happy with it.

Besides adding a drain plug, do those aftermarket covers actually do anything? I know about the aeration problem from the Banks Power testing videos but do they actually add strength to the housing to prevent bending or is it just a blind piece that is a little more rock resistant?

 

11 hours ago, gogmorgo said:

Or at minimum getting a local shop to re-arch yours

I did not know that you could get leasprings re-arched. Always thought that you just need to replace them. I'm not 100% sure I need to re arch them because they still have good arch in them and are about the correct ride height for a Comanche as long as it doesnt have a load in it. The springs start to sag once you have about 500lbs (or roughly 226kg) in the bed. I have thought about just getting Metric Ton spring or new standard springs if mine are just plain wore out though.

[TeKdo]

11 hours ago, gogmorgo said:

Air bags will screw with your brake proportioning if you still have the load-sensing valve in the system.

That's also why I haven't made any modifications to the rear suspension. My load sensing prop valve works amazingly and I really don't want to screw it up.

[gogmorgo]

It’s going to drop a little bit with weight in it, but it shouldn’t be bouncing off the bump stops with only 500lbs in the bed, or even noticeably low, given that’s not much more than a third of the payload rating. My longbed looked like it was sitting normal when it was empty but when I measured it was 4” lower than original ride height. It would squat pretty hard with much weight at all back there. 
 

I wouldn’t have a problem with running a stock stamped cover if that’s all you want. The biggest thing with the upgrades for most people is hitting it against stuff. There’s some argument to be made about strength in the housing, but distorting the pumpkin isn’t really much of a concern, and I don’t think an extra 1/4” of material is going to make any difference if you manage to hit it hard enough to bend that gigantic casting. It won’t do anything at all to reinforce where the axle tubes press into it, which is more of a strength concern. 
For me in the ZJ the drain plug was nice because there’s not a lot of clearance between the diff cover and gas tank, so pulling the cover with the Jeep on the ground was annoying, and anything hitting the cover would have already gone through the tank to get there anyhow. The cover on the MJ is a bit more exposed, but if you’re not doing any massive rock crawling with it I doubt you’ll ever have an issue. I’ve seen more diff covers rust out than I’ve ever seen hammered into things, that’s the sort of trouble you need to be looking for. 

[TeKdo]

7 hours ago, gogmorgo said:

It’s going to drop a little bit with weight in it, but it shouldn’t be bouncing off the bump stops with only 500lbs in the bed, or even noticeably low, given that’s not much more than a third of the payload rating.

Interesting, I should take a proper tape measure to it instead of guestimating what it should look like based off of what my Grandpa and Dad remember it looking like almost 40 years ago...the leaf springs at ride height still have an arch and aren't flattened out and the whole truck still has a visual rake that it would've had from the factory but yeah it was noticably lower once we loaded a motorcycle on it recently (roughly 500lbs).

 

7 hours ago, gogmorgo said:

The cover on the MJ is a bit more exposed, but if you’re not doing any massive rock crawling with it I doubt you’ll ever have an issue.

Yeah, I've got loads of space to get at the diff with the long bed. I rebuilt the Dana 35 over the summer on the ground with it in the truck there's so much space under there. And I'm way too nervous about getting stuck or destroying the bed to do any hardcore offroading.

 

7 hours ago, gogmorgo said:

I’ve seen more diff covers rust out than I’ve ever seen hammered into things, that’s the sort of trouble you need to be looking for. 

There's basically no rust outside of surface rust on my MJ thankfully. It's been sitting in the front yard of my grandparents house since the mid-90s in California...and it's been a northern California truck all it's life, it's the one and only new vehicle my grandpa ever bought.