Size Matters

[Joe Dirt]

How much lift do i need to run a 35/12.5?  Also, I have a cherokee parts truck. Going to pull the lift springs n adjustable arms fine and dandy. I wanna do a soa conversion on my rear. Can i just cut the perches off n weld them to my rear? New to the jeep thing. 

[Airborne Janitor]

At least 6" and some fender trimming. More trimming if you want to do it with less lift. All the front XJ suspension + steering parts are interchangeable with your MJ. The rear is not, axle widths are the same but the perches are not the same width distance from XJ to MJ. You're better off buying new rear spring perches from a place like Barnes4WD than to try to cut and reuse the old ones. Actually keeping the old ones on there are a good way to clamp your new plates into place and get your angles right, that's what I did.

[Armyvet25]

23 minutes ago, Airborne Janitor said:

At least 6" and some fender trimming. More trimming if you want to do it with less lift. All the front XJ suspension + steering parts are interchangeable with your MJ. The rear is not, axle widths are the same but the perches are not the same width distance from XJ to MJ. You're better off buying new rear spring perches from a place like Barnes4WD than to try to cut and reuse the old ones. Actually keeping the old ones on there are a good way to clamp your new plates into place and get your angles right, that's what I did.

are there any axles out there 35/44/60/70 etc that have the same perches regardless if Jeep or not that match the MJ, I have low 3 something rear axle ratio and want to upgrade to 4:10/4:11 and easier to swap axles rather that rebuilding mine.

[Joe Dirt]

58 minutes ago, Airborne Janitor said:

At least 6" and some fender trimming. More trimming if you want to do it with less lift. All the front XJ suspension + steering parts are interchangeable with your MJ. The rear is not, axle widths are the same but the perches are not the same width distance from XJ to MJ. You're better off buying new rear spring perches from a place like Barnes4WD than to try to cut and reuse the old ones. Actually keeping the old ones on there are a good way to clamp your new plates into place and get your angles right, that's what I did.

I have the metric ton edition i heard they come with a better rear. But it looks like someone swapped it out already. It kinda looks like it has perches on top that were cut so they could put the u-bolts through. Idk, like i said new to jeep stuff. 

[Joe Dirt]

Thanks for the replies I'll be posting a ton more.

[Pete M]

4 hours ago, armyvet25 said:

are there any axles out there 35/44/60/70 etc that have the same perches regardless if Jeep or not that match the MJ, I have low 3 something rear axle ratio and want to upgrade to 4:10/4:11 and easier to swap axles rather that rebuilding mine.

 

welding on perches is about as easy as welding gets.  any repair or muffler shop or local shadetree mechanic can do it for ya.   

[DirtyComanche]

8 hours ago, armyvet25 said:

are there any axles out there 35/44/60/70 etc that have the same perches regardless if Jeep or not that match the MJ, I have low 3 something rear axle ratio and want to upgrade to 4:10/4:11 and easier to swap axles rather that rebuilding mine.

There is but, no, it's not how to do it; as other than MJ axles, everything that has the same perch width is the wrong overall width/bolt pattern/etc.

 

Get a suitable rear axle (XJ 8.25, XJ D44, Explorer 8.8, Libby 8.25, etc, whatever the cool kids swap in now because I don't know) and get somebody to weld new perches on.  It's a job that a welding/fab shop would probably charge you an hour of labour to do, which could be anywhere from $50-200 depending on locality, or you could look around for somebody that does that sort of work or the side, or ask around at a 4x4/Jeep club and see if somebody will help.  This is by far the right solution.  The Explorer axle is easily available in 4.10 and has disk brakes.

[Armyvet25]

9 hours ago, Pete M said:

 

welding on perches is about as easy as welding gets.  any repair or muffler shop or local shadetree mechanic can do it for ya.   

oh I can weld, wasn't worried about re-welding on spring perches, just for a possibly stronger axle than the D35 for in the future.

Otherwise, prob do an 8.8 or 9"

[Armyvet25]

I'm not worried about breaking the rear axle with the anemic 2.8 but if I wanted to lift a tad more I don't want to sink money in an axle to regear I'll end up replacing anyway, I can see a Healthy newer more hp V6 or V8 in it's future.

[The86manche]

15 hours ago, Joe Dirt said:

I have the metric ton edition i heard they come with a better rear. But it looks like someone swapped it out already. It kinda looks like it has perches on top that were cut so they could put the u-bolts through. Idk, like i said new to jeep stuff. 

If it's a metric ton then it should be a d44 rear. What did they swap it for?

[Joe Dirt]

The88manche i have no clue. I'm new to the jeep/mopar scene.  I'll go snap some pictures and maybe you guys can tell me what I'm dealing with. Like i said it looks like it had soa perches and someone cut em so the u-bolts would work. Kinda sucks cause I'm looking to go to a soa setup if this guy would respond with the 35/12.5-17s i wanna buy.

[Joe Dirt]

17 hours ago, armyvet25 said:

are there any axles out there 35/44/60/70 etc that have the same perches regardless if Jeep or not that match the MJ, I have low 3 something rear axle ratio and want to upgrade to 4:10/4:11 and easier to swap axles rather that rebuilding mine.

Yeah, it looks pretty ez. I own a welder I'm actually custom fabbing a rear bumper off my xj parts truck. Looking back it probably would've been easier to sell the xj 1 and buy 1 for my mj but its coming along.

[ghetdjc320]

I’ll throw this out there for the axle swap equation. I’ve mentioned this before but if you’re contemplating going with a Ford 8.8, consider keeping the D35 or going with a D44 with 33’s. You’ll have actually better clearance than you would with that 8.8 on 35’s. No fender cutting, less unsprung weight, less strain on your suspension, gears, transmission, clutch, steering etc. and just as much clearance as 35’s in an 8.8 (which is too narrow, has c clips and thinner tubes). I’ve been down this rabbit hole before. 35’s can be a challenge on an MJ. I’d suggest 33’s with 5-6” lift and soa or just go 37’s and bigger axles. The front dana 30 will be a weak spot as well going any bigger than 35’s. Even 35’s can be too much for it. If you have a pre 90’ d35, it is a bolt in style axle with no c clips. Same tube size as the D44 from the MJ as well. Run some quality 4340 axles in it and full case locker of your choice. They can be stout axles if properly setup. 

[Armyvet25]

21 minutes ago, ghetdjc320 said:

I’ll throw this out there for the axle swap equation. I’ve mentioned this before but if you’re contemplating going with a Ford 8.8, consider keeping the D35 or going with a D44 with 33’s. You’ll have actually better clearance than you would with that 8.8 on 35’s. No fender cutting, less unsprung weight, less strain on your suspension, gears, transmission, clutch, steering etc. and just as much clearance as 35’s in an 8.8 (which is too narrow, has c clips and thinner tubes). I’ve been down this rabbit hole before. 35’s can be a challenge on an MJ. I’d suggest 33’s with 5-6” lift and soa or just go 37’s and bigger axles. The front dana 30 will be a weak spot as well going any bigger than 35’s. Even 35’s can be too much for it. If you have a pre 90’ d35, it is a bolt in style axle with no c clips. Same tube size as the D44 from the MJ as well. Run some quality 4340 axles in it and full case locker of your choice. They can be stout axles if properly setup. 

soooooooo, might just keep my D35 and install 4:10's since I'm only going up to 33's

[DirtyComanche]

7 hours ago, ghetdjc320 said:

I’ll throw this out there for the axle swap equation. I’ve mentioned this before but if you’re contemplating going with a Ford 8.8, consider keeping the D35 or going with a D44 with 33’s. You’ll have actually better clearance than you would with that 8.8 on 35’s. No fender cutting, less unsprung weight, less strain on your suspension, gears, transmission, clutch, steering etc. and just as much clearance as 35’s in an 8.8 (which is too narrow, has c clips and thinner tubes). I’ve been down this rabbit hole before. 35’s can be a challenge on an MJ. I’d suggest 33’s with 5-6” lift and soa or just go 37’s and bigger axles. The front dana 30 will be a weak spot as well going any bigger than 35’s. Even 35’s can be too much for it. If you have a pre 90’ d35, it is a bolt in style axle with no c clips. Same tube size as the D44 from the MJ as well. Run some quality 4340 axles in it and full case locker of your choice. They can be stout axles if properly setup. 

I can not in any way endorse putting money into a D35.  If you're going to do that you might as well also get a chryo treated and micropolished gearset to ensure that you've wasted the maximum money possible when it fails.

 

The 8.8 width issue is a real depending on what wheels and tires you run.  There used to be a C-clip eliminator kit for them, and it made them wider.  I don't know what happened to that, maybe somebody is making them again.

[ghetdjc320]

19 minutes ago, DirtyComanche said:

I can not in any way endorse putting money into a D35.  If you're going to do that you might as well also get a chryo treated and micropolished gearset to ensure that you've wasted the maximum money possible when it fails.

 

The 8.8 width issue is a real depending on what wheels and tires you run.  There used to be a C-clip eliminator kit for them, and it made them wider.  I don't know what happened to that, maybe somebody is making them again.

No need to cryo treat gears or invest more than you would in any other axle especially once you figure the cost of most junkyard swaps which require: new brakes, new bearings, possibly regearing, new perches and shock tabs, plus the initial cost of the axle. 
 

There is a use case scenario for a D35 in an MJ if the lift and tires will be mild. An 8.8 doesn’t last long on tires above 35” so it’s hard to see where an 8.8 fits into the mix on an MJ. It’s a heavy axle and somewhat clumsy axle for an off-road vehicle. Smallish disk brakes, an excessively large pumpkin for the size of the axle, too narrow for an MJ (even the stock 35 and 44 could have been a bit wider), and .188 wall tubes (that need to be welded better to the pumpkin). The 8.8 has its uses as a swap axle but it’s better off in narrower Jeeps if you can get the axle cheap enough. Yes there is a 4.10 LSD option but because of the notoriety of the swap, those ratios are much harder to find for a decent price. 
 

Junkyard axle swaps are like engine swaps. They cost a lot more than just the initial purchase to do it right.

[Pete M]

03-07 Liberty 8.25   same wheel bolt pattern, disks, slightly wider, and super duper common in 'yards.   only big downfall is that 99% of them will have 3.73 gears, which is rare in XJ/MJs dana 30s, but common in TJ/ZJs.  don't forget to grab the ujoint flange and bolts while you're there. 

[GrandBoost98]

@ghetdjc320 The 8.8 is better than both the D35 and D44 in almost every way minus the c clips. which they do still make a c clip eliminator kit. It has larger diameter tubes, bigger ring gear, bigger pinion, can get thicker 31 spline shafts stock, comes with disk brakes. The ground clearance is only about 1/2" difference between the D44 and 8.8. The added weight is actually a bonus keeping your COG lower and wheels planted on the ground. Its marginally narrower which will actually help your turning radius but can be "fixed" with spacers or the eliminator kit. And if you do the eliminator kit, you end up running the same wheel bearings as a Dana 60. Warn actually tested and compared the strengths of these axles some years ago. The article said that their machine maxed out at 6500lb for the axle shaft test

Axle shaft Strength and output torque rating by Warn and 4 Wheeler

The axle shaft strength tested by Warn Ind:
F8.8= 6,500 (lb. ft.)
D44= 4,600-5,000 (lb. ft.)
D35C= 4,000-4,300 (lb. ft.)

COT: Continuous output torque rating
MOT: Maximum output torque rating

(Numbers from January edition of Fourwheeler, page 60.)
Dana 35 rear axle COT: 870 MOT: 3480
Dana 44 rear axle COT: 1100 MOT: 4460
Ford 8.8 28spline COT: 1250 MOT: 4600
Ford 8.8 31spline COT: 1360 MOT: 5100
Dana60 semifloat COT: 1500 MOT: 5500]

I ran a stock 8.8 in my YJ locked on 35s for years without issue. I know a guy running 39" stickies on his YJ with a built 8.8 in it too. When I blew my D35 on 33s with a 4cyl driving home from work, there was no way I was going to put a dime into that turd lol and I had a non c clip D35 too

[Armyvet25]

what about the less splines but beefy amc20? Supposed to be in actuality stronger than D44 even though most won't acknowledge it (adding 1 piece axles)

[Pete M]

also a great choice if it came from an MJ.  

[Armyvet25]

prob as rare as hens teeth

[zomeizter]

8.8 over the D35 all day long...

[ghetdjc320]

Same old stories on repeat . I’m getting too old for this . 
 

 

[GrandBoost98]

4 minutes ago, ghetdjc320 said:

Same old stories on repeat . I’m getting too old for this 
 

 

I got a couple D35s Ill trade you for a D44 or 8.8 then

[ghetdjc320]

I wheeled many years on D35’s 8.8’s and D44’s. Did a lot of axle building along the way also including several 8.8 builds. I also documented a lot of info on HD44’s. It took a while, but personally, I started to see where there was an advantage to less unsprung weight, keeping things at lower lift and running smaller tires. Taught me a lot more driving skill and taking my time to pick the right lines. I understand that’s not for everybody though 

I just wanted to share how one can run what they have and spend more time wheeling than wrenching. The D35 is often overlooked and the 8.8 is often over-stated. There are specific weakpoints on a D35 that can be simply and easily modified in just a few hours to run a respectable tire size and stand up to decent wheeling. It is a viable option and it does have its advantages. 
 

BTW, the HD44 as found in 98+ imports and JKs has the same ground clearance as the standard 44, no c clips, 8.9” ring gear, D60 pinion and fairly larger brakes. They are also wider, thicker wall tubes than the 8.8 and are actually decently plug welded by factory. Bolt pattern will be different but hey, if we’re going new tires, why not new wheels?? No matter what we swap under our trucks it’s going to cost. The KJ8.25 is a nice candidate also but will require plenty of sweat equity.