neohic Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Interesting concept here. Why not put electric motors as an assist on a trailer? https://newatlas.com/automotive/thor-dethleffs-electric-camping-trailer/ I like new ideas like this to keep consumers interested in an old idea. This brings up addition thoughts on my head though: With electric pickup trucks coming down the line and battery life severely cut down with heavier loads, how about supplemental battery banks under the trailer to feed the tow vehicle? Giant trailers aren’t going away but the need to move things should be considered when mixing the idea with an electric vehicle. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 On the EV truck thing, adding additional battery modules to a trailer is great and all that, but the cost/benefit analysis for them would be poor for most people. Most people don't actually take their trailers that far on a regular basis, they make a few long trips with it sitting most of the time, or they make more frequent short trips. So, lots of cost for minimal use. Now, that said, it could be a great option for the right person. One would need a suitable electrical interface for the tow vehicle though, and there would be some challenges making such an interface robust, idiot-proof, and safe. Plus it would need to work with the tow vehicle, which could lead to some interesting BMS stuff, but that's easy enough to solve if there is a unified standard. Tesla would probably use some weird plug nobody else does, and you'd have to pay them a monthly fee for it to work. Don't worry though, that Elon guy is a genius and going to save humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 Yes! i've been wanting to do this for years! think of the help on trails! solid state batteries are coming. that should double current capacity. more in the trailer could double that again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89 MJ Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I am curious as to how it would respond to throttle and braking of the vehicle. I'm sure they would have some sort of braking system wired in, much like modern trailers (maybe regenerative braking??? That would be handy), but I would be curious as to how it would sense the throttle. Obviously the trailer would have to be "pushing" at the same speed, so maybe there would need to be another plug added and it would tell the vehicle speed. What about someone putting larger tires on the truck and that throwing the speedometer off? I assume that would just have to be recalibrated for the larger tires, much like how we have to change speedometer gears. I also cannot help but wonder how this would affect load capacity. As we know with pickups, the more the truck weighs, the less it can haul (if we are talking apples to apples trucks, model wise). I would assume that they same things applies for trailers. This seems like more people may need to be getting their CDL if they consistently haul near the max, but the weight of the trailer would put them over (though I would assume that most would already have their CDL in that case). All in all, I do think it could work though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parei_doll_ia Posted January 18, 2022 Share Posted January 18, 2022 I'm guessing there's a load cell in the tongue of the trailer that keeps the force on the tow vehicle 0, applying accel or regen as needed. The BMS in an EV won't let you charge the battery while it's being discharged, so there would have to be some tricky connections to hook everything up in parallel. It would probably have to be designed in by the manufacturer, that's way to deep into the propulsion system for the aftermarket to handle. I think hydrogen is better for towing and commercial trucks with current tech. With a BEV, bigger isn't always better. Double the battery takes double the time to charge, and you have to lug around the extra weight. (until solid state becomes a thing, but that's probably still a decade out) I've been considering the Mini EV for a while because of this. As long as I can slow charge it every night, 110 miles is plenty for a daily, and it fast charges in 30 minutes on 50kW, which are more available than 150kW stations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmorgo Posted January 19, 2022 Share Posted January 19, 2022 Tractor trailers have been making ABS systems communicate between truck and trailer since the ‘90’s with the existing lighting connections. Interfacing the power control systems between truck and an electrified assist trailer can’t be much more complex than that. Most trailers with a 7-pin connector don’t use the centre auxiliary connection anyhow, and all you’d need is to multiplex signals down that circuit. Essentially the same way heavy trucks do. And as far as electrical connections between the two units would go if the trailer is just a recharge bank, I’m pretty sure TFL was able to charge an electric vehicle on a trailer behind a Ford truck, either a hybrid or full electric, I don’t quite remember, so we can definitely make that work the opposite direction, too. Even if it’s just something as simple as a forklift battery connection or two. Obviously you’d need good fault protection in the connections and cables, but it’s definitely feasible. Honestly I would love to see this implemented even without an EV tow vehicle. Too many times I’ve been stuck behind a trailer crawling up a hill behind some smaller crossover that maybe was rated for the weight but didn’t really have the power for the driver to push it comfortably. It would also be pretty awesome to have regen brakes for going down hills, so you don’t cook your friction brakes or over-rev your engine gearing down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parei_doll_ia Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 17 hours ago, gogmorgo said: Honestly I would love to see this implemented even without an EV tow vehicle. That actually would be really good behind a normal truck, it could charge itself from being pulled, and you wouldn't need a noisy generator at the campsite. I've thought about building an electric race bike before, and having a trailer with solar panels on it to charge a battery bank for charging the bike's batteries. This could add on to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 I want this. right now. lemme save on gas and then charge the trailer back up using solar and/or the free juice at campsites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89 MJ Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 I wonder how it would behave in ice and snow.... it seems like it would be very easy for the tow rig to go around if it hit ice while cornering (that already is easy enough). I think this definitely could work though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parei_doll_ia Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 25 minutes ago, 89 MJ said: I wonder how it would behave in ice and snow.... it seems like it would be very easy for the tow rig to go around if it hit ice while cornering (that already is easy enough). I think this definitely could work though. It would likely have to be wired into the tow vehicle's ESC/TCS to prevent this. It could establish CAN communication through the 7 pin connector probably, maybe needing an extra plug for dedicated CAN high and low wires to not create interference. Those signals already exist in any vehicle with CAN, so in that situation it would just default to regen. This isn't something you'd want to hook up to a truck as old as ours. I just looked at THOR's website and they even have an airstream concept that can park itself without the tow vehicle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 yeah, I imagine there's a technological cutoff where the trailers would only work with newer rigs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmorgo Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 I see no reason it couldn't be set up as a sort of cruise control to prevent that. If it detects it's pushing the truck it disengages, only goes to regen on prolonged decel or if you're going down a hill or something. Heavy trailers with ABS and even stability control also know when an older truck isn't set up to communicate with them and just do their own thing in that case. Maybe get a control box in the front of the truck that communicates with the trailer wirelessly or something so you can tell it how much assist you want or switch it off if weather is getting inclement, same as your cruise control. If manufacturers come up with a standard to integrate it into the vehicle's control system, excellent, but there's lots of vehicles out that will predate the standard and not everyone will want to replace their truck just to have a fancy assist trailer, so if the trailer manufacturer wants to sell their product to those people, they'll need to figure out how to work with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m2bandit Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 It would be interesting to see how they're detecting how much to assist. It not only cannot push but it needs to maintain drag. Without drag you lose control of the trailer. I do like the battery regen idea. My 600W solar barely can keep our fridge running during travels. I know most people leave their propane on but I've also seen some fireballs on the side of the freeway. 2 hours ago, keeponjeepinon said: I just looked at THOR's website and they even have an airstream concept that can park itself without the tow vehicle That sounds terrible, what will I do on rest days after a long hike if not watch people pull into their spot 20 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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