jdog Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 What thermostat is in it? The computer will keep it rich to get it to operating temperature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87MJTIM Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 If you have an injector stuck open that may account for a rich condition. Try unplugging each injector, one at a time, and see how the engine responds. As each one is unplugged the engine should start to run rough. If it doesn't change much, that injector may be the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilisDiller Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 39 minutes ago, jdog said: What thermostat is in it? The computer will keep it rich to get it to operating temperature Couldn’t tell you, as this truck is still new to me. I’m guessing I’ll have to take off the thermostat housing in order to see? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdog Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 minute ago, PhilisDiller said: Couldn’t tell you, as this truck is still new to me. I’m guessing I’ll have to take off the thermostat housing in order to see? Yeah, I'm guessing it has a 180 it should have a 195 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilisDiller Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 39 minutes ago, 87MJTIM said: If you have an injector stuck open that may account for a rich condition. Try unplugging each injector, one at a time, and see how the engine responds. As each one is unplugged the engine should start to run rough. If it doesn't change much, that injector may be the problem. It started running rough every time I pulled an injector. These are 0280155700 injectors Installed by previous owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilisDiller Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 6 minutes ago, jdog said: Yeah, I'm guessing it has a 180 it should have a 195 I’ll swap it to a 195 maybe today if I have the time. Would it really be dumping that much excess fuel at 180 vs 195? I know my O2 sensor starts off reading 0.5v idling when I first fire it up and it creeps up to 1.2v once at operating temp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87MJTIM Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Ok. That eliminates stuck open injectors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdog Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 It burns richer to speed up the warming up process Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse J Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 minute ago, jdog said: It burns richer to speed up the warming up process do they all do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdog Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Yeah, all cars do it. Early days it was the use of a plate to reduce the air. Now it's computer controlled that sends more gas at first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse J Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 huh weird that makes sense I'm always suprised when I start up my truck and it's really rich for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ωhm Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 2 hours ago, PhilisDiller said: ST - 128 OL / drops to 0 in CL. I know it’s getting too much fuel, and i don’t think the ECU knows it’s sending too much fuel. STFT dropping to 0 when going to CL shows ECU knows "too much fuel". What are LTFT numbers? TPS@idle? MAT@idle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilisDiller Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 20 minutes ago, Ωhm said: STFT dropping to 0 when going to CL shows ECU knows "too much fuel". What are LTFT numbers? TPS@idle? MAT@idle? I know it recognizes too much fuel when it goes into closed loop. What I meant was that I think when it’s In open loop, it is sending more fuel than it should. I really thought my fuel pressure regulator would fix it. LTFT has been 128 but just changed to 126 the other day. TPS - 14 MAT - 64 f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ωhm Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 Here are my REM stats idling O2 - 1.1V OL/ 0.5v CL INJECTOR PULS WIDTH - 8.1mS OL/ 4.5mS CL GALLONS PER HOUR - 1.1 OL / 0.8CL MAP - 15.9 OL / 12.0 CL VAC - 14.5 OL / didn’t grab closed loop Water temp - 187 f ST - 128 OL / drops to 0 in CL 24 minutes ago, PhilisDiller said: I really thought my fuel pressure regulator would fix it. Yeah, it should have. INJ PW@8.1mS for CL is possible with ECT_187° and MAT_64°, if those are your ambient temperatures. TPS@14, I don't know, shouldn't it be at 17. Maybe need to take a voltage reading. @cruiser54 tips. 02S@0.5vdc during CL should be swinging between 0.0&5.0vdc (rich/lean). Have you check the 02S heater circuit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilisDiller Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 22 minutes ago, Ωhm said: INJ PW@8.1mS for CL is possible with ECT_187° and MAT_64°, if those are your ambient temperatures. TPS@14, I don't know, shouldn't it be aMaybe need to take a voltage reading. @cruiser54 tips. 02S@0.5vdc during CL should be swinging between 0.0&5.0vdc (rich/lean). Have you check the 02S heater circuit? According to nick in times guide with the REM it says TPS should be between 14-18. I have 13.4v for the heater circuit I’ve attached a video of me going through some of the readings while it’s idling. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ωhm Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 1 hour ago, PhilisDiller said: I’ve attached a video of me going through some of the readings while it’s idling. That 02S voltage will just not leave the RICH zone. 1 hour ago, PhilisDiller said: I have 13.4v for the heater circuit I'm going to take a long shot here. With ENGINE at idle can you brightly light a 12vdc testlamp on pin D2_9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 None of those sensors work worth a $#!& if their ground path isn't good. Tips 1 through 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilisDiller Posted December 31, 2020 Author Share Posted December 31, 2020 40 minutes ago, Ωhm said: That 02S voltage will just not leave the RICH zone. I'm going to take a long shot here. With ENGINE at idle can you brightly light a 12vdc testlamp on pin D2_9. I don’t have a test light yet, but my multimeter is showing 54mA on D2 -9 and I’m getting like 13.4V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ωhm Posted December 31, 2020 Share Posted December 31, 2020 16 minutes ago, PhilisDiller said: I don’t have a test light yet, DVOM are high impedance meters. That is they can read voltage but can't tell you if current will flow. Testlights tax the circuit with current flow (bulb). Like I said "long shot". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilisDiller Posted January 1, 2021 Author Share Posted January 1, 2021 19 hours ago, cruiser54 said: None of those sensors work worth a $#!& if their ground path isn't good. Tips 1 through 5. 1 - I refreshed my dip stick connection when I first got it. It looks like the previous owner ran the battery ground to the dipstick connection too. The firewall ground is only grounded to a bolt on the intake manifold with a 12ga cable. Is this also supposed to be grounded to the head or is this sufficient? Refreshed the tail light ground as well. Anything else I’m missing there? 2 - I’ve decided to tackle eliminating the c101 today. Wish me luck, doesn’t look too bad. I’ve cleaned it out once already, but love peace of mind. 3 - I’ve cleaned out most accessible connectors and relays , but I’ll do a more thorough inspection while doing the c101 today 4 - is this necessary right now? I’m not having any starting issues. I was aiming to tackle ones that I thought would be causing my issues. 5 - I checked my ground resistance against my MAP, TPS and O2 sensor. All them were 0.7 to 0.9 ohms. Any more I should be checking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 1-Intake manifold for the ground is just fine 2- Excellent idea. 3-Great 4-Is what necessary? The idea behind the Tips is to fix things before they can fail. 5- That's fine. Do the values change if you wiggle the associated wire harnesses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilisDiller Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 @cruiser54 I couldn’t wiggle the c101 and that harness are when testing the o2, due to my position but I was able to wiggle it with the tps and map and didn’t have any changes. I’m new to distributors, but would a poorly indexed dizzy cause any of the rich symptoms I have? or what about bad egr? I’ve never seen my REM say EGR on. It’s always off. I don’t know much about EGRs yet. I live in NC and they do inspections. I’m guessing EGR delete is off the table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 The dizzy should be indexed at some point, but not now. The MAP sensor has the biggest effect on richening the mixture, followed by the coolant temp sensor. The CTS can be monitored by the REM. EGR, if it isn't partially opened causing a vacuum leak, leave it alone. Sure the line from the throttle body to MAP even flows air? If it's plugged or kinked/collapsed, the MAP thinks there's low vacuum and asks the ECU to richen the mixture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilisDiller Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 @cruiser54 I’ve noticed that my IAT does read about 20f lower than ambient temperature. Only when it’s warmed up does it read just a bit higher than ambient. I know IAT is the lesser component for open loop fuel regulation, but maybe this might be causing it to run a bit rich. I can’t see it being this rich tho. I wasn’t able to pick up my thermostat until tonight so I’ll swap it tomorrow to a 195 and hope that helps. I don’t think the EGR it’s causing a vacuum leak but I’ll do your tests for it. I’m getting 14.5 vac which seems to be within range. The map tube looks new but I’ll verify it flows air when I’m in there. Rubber vacuum connectors look to be good too. It seems like there’s a good seal at the MAP to TB connection, but would you recommend putting a little bit of sealant on that connection to confirm it’s airtight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruiser54 Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Here's what I recommend. but, a small amount of sealant would be good. CRUISER'S MOSTLY RENIX TIPS THROTTLE BODY TO MAP SENSOR HOSE FIX JANUARY 23, 2016 CRUISER54 43 COMMENTS The Renix throttle bodies have a strange and failure prone connector on the side where the MAP supply originates and then runs up to the MAP sensor located on the firewall. This hose/pipe assembly is no longer available for purchase. The real kicker here is how critical this line is in supplying the correct vacuum signal to the MAP, the most relied upon sensor for the ECU to read regarding air/fuel ratio. Any cracks, melted spots, or loose rubber connectors can cause major starting and driveability issues. There’s a simple fix though. All that’s required is a 1/8” NPT tap, a new throttle body gasket ( Napa FPG 60742 ), a vacuum fitting (Napa 05703-B102), two vacuum elbows (Napa CRB2670), and a length of new plastic piping (Napa CRB2672). Remove the throttle body and take it to the workbench. Using an oiled tap along with a driver, carefully thread the lower of the 2 holes of the throttle body where the old fitting was plugged in. Don’t go too deep. These are pipe threads. Flush the hole with carb cleaner and inspect for any left over cuttings. This is an excellent time to do a complete throttle body and IAC cleaning. See Tip 11. Take the vacuum fitting (05703-B102 ) and apply a LITTLE bit of thread sealer on the threads only. I prefer Permatex #2 but almost anything is fine. . Carefully screw the fitting in until snug. Install one of the vacuum elbows on the MAP sensor so it points toward the throttle body, and the other vacuum elbow on your new throttle body fitting so it points up to the MAP sensor. Cut a length of the new plastic tubing (approximately 13 inches) to fit between the vacuum elbows and install it making sure there is enough slack for some engine movement. Route it according to the photo. We don’t want any rubbing or chafing with engine movement. Not a bad idea to use some contact cement or Gasga-Cinch sparingly on the tubing to elbow connectors. Revised 2-06-2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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