Internal slave to external slave parts list??

[johnj92131]

Looking for a good list of parts to convert the AX-15 from internal slave to external slave on my TDI Comanche conversion.  2 wheel drive 21 spline AX-15. 1990 4.0 clutch and flywheel. All fresh and in nice shape.

 

Any links?   Thanks

 

[MeanLemons]

I don’t think ax15’s ever came in 21 spline.     I see you said 2 wheel drive so the output shaft probably is 27 spline.  

[agamble]

 

11 hours ago, johnj92131 said:

Looking for a good list of parts to convert the AX-15 from internal slave to external slave on my TDI Comanche conversion.  2 wheel drive 21 spline AX-15. 1990 4.0 clutch and flywheel. All fresh and in nice shape.

The AX15 never came in 21 spline. Only came in 23-spline. In order to do the external slave you will need:

-a bellhohuseing from a 94' or later 4.0 motor. 

-External slave cylinder (https://www.quadratec.com/products/52010_05.htm)

-A way to connect the external clutch slave cylinder to the clutch master cylinder. You can do this one of two ways: 1) purchase the setup, as it comes in one single unit (https://www.quadratec.com/products/52007_0013.htm). My understanding is you may have to modify the upper mounting point on the fire wall to make it work. I have no first hand experience as I've never purchased a complete kit. 2) AdvancedAdapters sells hydraulic fittings that allows youth retain the year specific clutch master cylinder already on the truck while mating it up to the slave cylinder at the bell housing. You will need the early master cylinder fitting that is a 7/16 inverted flare style (P/N 716130F) this fitting will thread right into the clutch master cylinder, the stainless steel hose (716130-60, 60" length or 716130H, 42" length), the TJ Master Cylinder Fitting and Slave Cylinder Fitting (P/N 716130 TJ) and O-ring (P/N 716130OR).

-An external specific front bearing retainer plate (https://www.quadratec.com/products/52129_05.htm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0sGN6Lr62wIVVZ7ACh30yQ6EEAQYASABEgKnSvD_BwE)

- Clutch release pivot (https://www.quadratec.com/products/52021_01.htm)

-Clutch fork spring (https://www.quadratec.com/products/52012_03.htm)

-Clutch throw out lever fork (https://www.quadratec.com/products/916914_07.htm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9umztbz62wIVhLXACh3PzAghEAQYASABEgI5K_D_BwE)

-Clutch release bearing (https://www.quadratec.com/products/52004_102.htm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItduIlb362wIVS7nACh01Vg0nEAQYBCABEgIQr_D_BwE)

-New pilot bearing. Internal slave AX-15s  have a pilot bearing with an Inside Diameter (ID) of 0.5934 inches, Outside Diameter (OD) of 1.055 inches, and depth of 0.719 inches (OE part number 53009181).  The external slave AX-15 has a pilot bearing with an ID of 0.7518 inches, OD of 1.8161 inches, and depth of 0.719 inches (OE part number 33004041). The standard pilot bearing that comes usually will not fit into the crankcase as it will have to large an OD.  A 72 - 73’ CJ, 350 V8 pilot bearing is recommended when swapping in an external AX-15 in an older 4.0L. It has an ID of 0.751 inches, OD of 1.056 inches, and depth of 0.88 inches (National part number PB77HD or Dorman part number 14674). 

 

 

[omega_rugal]

12 hours ago, agamble said:

-New pilot bearing. Internal slave AX-15s  have a pilot bearing with an Inside Diameter (ID) of 0.5934 inches, Outside Diameter (OD) of 1.055 inches, and depth of 0.719 inches (OE part number 53009181).  The external slave AX-15 has a pilot bearing with an ID of 0.7518 inches, OD of 1.8161 inches, and depth of 0.719 inches (OE part number 33004041). The standard pilot bearing that comes usually will not fit into the crankcase as it will have to large an OD.  A 72 - 73’ CJ, 350 V8 pilot bearing is recommended when swapping in an external AX-15 in an older 4.0L. It has an ID of 0.751 inches, OD of 1.056 inches, and depth of 0.88 inches (National part number PB77HD or Dorman part number 14674). 

 

or swap the front bearing retainer AND input shaft?

[johnj92131]

On 6/29/2018 at 8:57 PM, agamble said:

 

The AX15 never came in 21 spline. Only came in 23-spline. In order to do the external slave you will need:

-a bellhohuseing from a 94' or later 4.0 motor. 

-External slave cylinder (https://www.quadratec.com/products/52010_05.htm)

-A way to connect the external clutch slave cylinder to the clutch master cylinder. You can do this one of two ways: 1) purchase the setup, as it comes in one single unit (https://www.quadratec.com/products/52007_0013.htm). My understanding is you may have to modify the upper mounting point on the fire wall to make it work. I have no first hand experience as I've never purchased a complete kit. 2) AdvancedAdapters sells hydraulic fittings that allows youth retain the year specific clutch master cylinder already on the truck while mating it up to the slave cylinder at the bell housing. You will need the early master cylinder fitting that is a 7/16 inverted flare style (P/N 716130F) this fitting will thread right into the clutch master cylinder, the stainless steel hose (716130-60, 60" length or 716130H, 42" length), the TJ Master Cylinder Fitting and Slave Cylinder Fitting (P/N 716130 TJ) and O-ring (P/N 716130OR).

-An external specific front bearing retainer plate (https://www.quadratec.com/products/52129_05.htm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI0sGN6Lr62wIVVZ7ACh30yQ6EEAQYASABEgKnSvD_BwE)

- Clutch release pivot (https://www.quadratec.com/products/52021_01.htm)

-Clutch fork spring (https://www.quadratec.com/products/52012_03.htm)

-Clutch throw out lever fork (https://www.quadratec.com/products/916914_07.htm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI9umztbz62wIVhLXACh3PzAghEAQYASABEgI5K_D_BwE)

-Clutch release bearing (https://www.quadratec.com/products/52004_102.htm?gclid=EAIaIQobChMItduIlb362wIVS7nACh01Vg0nEAQYBCABEgIQr_D_BwE)

-New pilot bearing. Internal slave AX-15s  have a pilot bearing with an Inside Diameter (ID) of 0.5934 inches, Outside Diameter (OD) of 1.055 inches, and depth of 0.719 inches (OE part number 53009181).  The external slave AX-15 has a pilot bearing with an ID of 0.7518 inches, OD of 1.8161 inches, and depth of 0.719 inches (OE part number 33004041). The standard pilot bearing that comes usually will not fit into the crankcase as it will have to large an OD.  A 72 - 73’ CJ, 350 V8 pilot bearing is recommended when swapping in an external AX-15 in an older 4.0L. It has an ID of 0.751 inches, OD of 1.056 inches, and depth of 0.88 inches (National part number PB77HD or Dorman part number 14674). 

 

 

 

Thank You for this list.  I have the bell housing and the clutch release pivot:

 

 

Have the Front Bearing retainer, clutch throwout lever fork,. Clutch throwout bearing needs to be replaced with new.

 

 

That leaves me to order:  1) New throwout bearing.  2)  Clutch fork spring.  3)  External Slave Cylinder.  4) New master Cylinder kit.  5)  Pilot bearing.  6) New rubber seal for front bearing retainer.

Are we missing anything else?

 

Thanks to all for the feedback.

[agamble]

5 hours ago, johnj92131 said:

 

Thank You for this list.  I have the bell housing and the clutch release pivot:

 

 

Have the Front Bearing retainer, clutch throwout lever fork,. Clutch throwout bearing needs to be replaced with new.

 

 

That leaves me to order:  1) New throwout bearing.  2)  Clutch fork spring.  3)  External Slave Cylinder.  4) New master Cylinder kit.  5)  Pilot bearing.  6) New rubber seal for front bearing retainer.

Are we missing anything else?

 

Thanks to all for the feedback.

 

It doesn’t appear that you’re missing anything.   

[johnj92131]

Looks like I will be able to reuse my master cylinder with just a different fitting on the end of the line. Also my pilot bearing should be good to go.  It was semi custom for the engine conversion.

 

Matt Whitbread is going to be in town to pick up another project truck, so we will do the slave swap when he gets here. I am going on a road trip east, so will follow him when he drives the project home.

[Wounded_Fighter]

Curious... Whats the benefits/disadvantages of internal vs external?

[amsuco]

For starters, if an internal ever goes bad you'll have to pull the bellhousing to replace it.  If a external should go bad, you can replace it from the outside of the bellhousing.  That's what my MJ is currently waiting on.  My internal needs replaced and I'm going to swap over to the external design so that I never have to go through this again (at least not to simply replace a slave cylinder).

[omega_rugal]

4 hours ago, Wounded_Fighter said:

Curious... Whats the benefits/disadvantages of internal vs external?

 

cool factor goes up a 200%...

[johnj92131]

6 hours ago, amsuco said:

For starters, if an internal ever goes bad you'll have to pull the bellhousing to replace it.  If a external should go bad, you can replace it from the outside of the bellhousing.  That's what my MJ is currently waiting on.  My internal needs replaced and I'm going to swap over to the external design so that I never have to go through this again (at least not to simply replace a slave cylinder).

Exactly why I am doing this conversion.

[Tex06]

Looks like I will be able to reuse my master cylinder with just a different fitting on the end of the line. Also my pilot bearing should be good to go.  It was semi custom for the engine conversion.
 
Matt Whitbread is going to be in town to pick up another project truck, so we will do the slave swap when he gets here. I am going on a road trip east, so will follow him when he drives the project home.

100% advise against it. I had hell getting mine to bleed/act right after the swap. After 2 weeks of fooling with it after work, I just bought the '94 slave/master pre-bled combo. Not that much more expensive and much easier to do.

Sent from my SM-G930T using Tapatalk

[johnj92131]

What year was your truck and any issue with connection of master to clutch pedal?

[Rockfrog]

My current clutch setup is 88 stock master cylinder, 88 stock line, Novak adapter fitting, 94 stock external Slave.
Works just fine.

Sent from my SM-G930W8 using Tapatalk

[johnj92131]

Picked up genuine Mopar clutch swivel, clutch fork spring and ordered new front bearing seal from local Jeep dealer. Mopar clutch throwout bearing is $148. Yeaks??  $36 from Crown, which is oem supplier

I will see what NAPA wants for clutch throwout and slave cylinder.

Spent $76 for  the 3 Mopar parts.

[HOrnbrod]

18 hours ago, johnj92131 said:

$36 from Crown, which is oem supplier

I will see what NAPA wants for clutch throwout and slave cylinder.

 

Crown Is all C.R.A.P.

[johnj92131]

5 hours ago, HOrnbrod said:

 

Crown Is all C.R.A.P.

 

Good to know, thanks. Ordered slave and throwout from NAPA this a.m. Picking it up this afternoon. Throwout was $90, external slave was about $64.  Hopefully, decent quality.

[johnj92131]

Swap is done.  Here are a few lessons learned.

Mopar has discontinued the external slave, so we are left with after market suppliers.

 

MOST IMPORTANT:  make sure you have a bleeder fitting for external slave cylinder. My slave did not come with one. Caused a huge last minute issue.

Only one slave on Rock Auto included bleeder. My NAPA slave didn't. Heck of a problem at 4:45 p.m.

Resorted to 35 minute trip to Jeep salvage yard in rush hour. Yardclosed at 5, but stuck around for us.

Finally, a quarter mile away from yard. Police and fire department have street closed because of a vehicle fire. Delayed while we take back roads.  

Yard owner hung around for us after 3 or 4 phone calls.  So big thank you to Hard Rock Jeep. 

 

Next, you need to buy 2 M8 x 25 mm bolts to mount external slave.

 

After we picked up the used external slave, Matt checked out New slave against used slave.

New slave had not had finish bore operation so fluid could bleed out from bleeder. Slave was made in Mexico. We drilled out the missing hole, installed used bleeder screw.

 

In very short order, all was well. Quick road test show's a properly acting clutch. And properly acting transmission. More testing remain to be done. But took 3+ hours chasing minor parts and 3 hours for the actual swap.

 

It was amazing to watch Whitbread work. He did the engine conversion, so if intimately familiar with what needs to be done. All I did was move the hydraulic jack as directed, hold some wrenches, chase wrenches, parts, etc.

 

More on my TDI conversion thread later. Purpose here is to fill out parts issues on internal to external slave.

 

This is the 3rd new slave put in the conversion. 2 internal slaves and the external slave. All have had problems. Just a fact to consider.