Auto transmission shifting with different motor

[krustyballer16]

I just picked up a 1990 eliminator with the 2wd auto trans. I will be putting another 3.3L cummins in this truck and was wondering what all would have to be done to get the tranny to shift behind the cummins?

My last swap I used the ax15 so didn't have to worry about anything.

The 3.3 is all mechanical.

Do I use the mj stock TCM and something else or is it even possible?

This is all new to me.

 

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[HOrnbrod]

To control the AW4 automatically via the three solenoids the TCU/TCM needs + and - inputs from the speed sensor, + and - from the TPS, the brake pedal switch, and constant / ignition switched 12V.  Plus you'll need to figure out the the Neutral Safety Switch wiring. But it's all doable.

Or you could use one of the several aftermarket shift controllers available to manually send signals to the solenoids to control the shifting. To me these things are useless and I'd rather have a manual transmission.

[krustyballer16]

To control the AW4 automatically via the three solenoids the TCU/TCM needs + and - inputs from the speed sensor, + and - from the TPS, the brake pedal switch, and constant / ignition switched 12V. Plus you'll need to figure out the the Neutral Safety Switch wiring. But it's all doable.

 

Or you could use one of the several aftermarket shift controllers available to manually send signals to the solenoids to control the shifting. To me these things are useless and I'd rather have a manual transmission.

Sounds ALOT easier to just run the ax15 again. Lol.

There's nothing wrong with doing that. Just wanted to try something different.

Do you know if there's any write ups on here about doing all that? I tried to search but came up with nothing.

 

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[krustyballer16]

What about putting an auto out of something older that doesn't have a tcm...

They shift off vacuum don't they?

With this cummins I use a vacuum pump on the alternator. Would that work to shift the tranny or is that totally different?

 

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[ScottJeep]

Just have to continue to research/decide.  

 

Are you planning to go 4WD in future?  

 

4l80e seems to be the one that I have read the most about.  

 

My thought would be for simplicity TH400 which was behind the 6.5 in the M1008/9 CUCV.

Not torque monsters but a proven transmission with tons of options/parts/support. 

 

Clarification...no expert here but my other project is my 81' CJ5  currently 360 V8 3spd.  My old knees are not sure they can take the 3spd so have picked up a TF999 and am now planning what JEEP never offered. Have also had to jump into a full rebuild of the 360 and well since jumping in so deep have researched much more than necessary. Meaning 4BT, LS..much more than necessary.

 

Research/Dreaming one in the same sometimes.  

[Jeep Driver]

I just got a quote yesterday from Monster Transmission for a 700r4, $2600 plus the Novak TC adapter (they install output shaft) puts the total just above $3100. 

 

We play, we pay. 

 

I also suggest no-controller trans. 

 

After I get my truck finished, I'm getting away from the AMC/Chrysler mess, done with it. Going old-school.

[Jeep Driver]

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/47RH.html

 

 

FWIW, I scanned a diesel swap forum, this one seems to the go-to trans.

[krustyballer16]

Just have to continue to research/decide.

 

Are you planning to go 4WD in future?

 

4l80e seems to be the one that I have read the most about.

 

My thought would be for simplicity TH400 which was behind the 6.5 in the M1008/9 CUCV.

Not torque monsters but a proven transmission with tons of options/parts/support.

 

Clarification...no expert here but my other project is my 81' CJ5 currently 360 V8 3spd. My old knees are not sure they can take the 3spd so have picked up a TF999 and am now planning what JEEP never offered. Have also had to jump into a full rebuild of the 360 and well since jumping in so deep have researched much more than necessary. Meaning 4BT, LS..much more than necessary.

 

Research/Dreaming one in the same sometimes.

Keeping it 2wd. This is going to be the "fast" truck of these two cummins. Lol.

I love the ax15 currently behind the one I have done but wanted to do something different.

Don't do a 4bt. So overrated! Lol

 

And I'm sure everybody can tell by my questions, all this transmission talk is foreign language to me. So I have no idea what any of these transmissions or products are.

 

 

http://www.allpar.com/mopar/transmissions/47RH.html

 

 

FWIW, I scanned a diesel swap forum, this one seems to the go-to trans.

Expensive and overkill for this. Lol.

Was wanting something around the cost of an ax15 or aw4 ($400~)

 

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[Eagle]

Way WAY back, pre-NAXJA, there was a guy on the old XJ forum by the name of Frank Swygert who ran an AW4 in an AMC Hornet (or Concord -- same animal). He controlled it with a single, 6-position rotary switch.

[HOrnbrod]

http://www.radesignsproducts.com/

[krustyballer16]

Way WAY back, pre-NAXJA, there was a guy on the old XJ forum by the name of Frank Swygert who ran an AW4 in an AMC Hornet (or Concord -- same animal). He controlled it with a single, 6-position rotary switch.

I found where he's talking about it. Does he do a write up on it?

 

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[HOrnbrod]

 

Way WAY back, pre-NAXJA, there was a guy on the old XJ forum by the name of Frank Swygert who ran an AW4 in an AMC Hornet (or Concord -- same animal). He controlled it with a single, 6-position rotary switch.

I found where he's talking about it. Does he do a write up on it?

 

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By the time you wire in an AW4 manual shifter you could wire in the TCU. Doesn't make sense to me since the TCU's are so reliable. I guess a manual controller might be useful on a crawler but not so much on a street rig...

[DirtyComanche]

http://www.radesignsproducts.com/

 

If you want manual control, he's the guy to go to.

 

 

I still have a BrettM controller somewhere...  BUT, they had issues.

 

 

I don't know enough about how the TCM works to know how to make it happen in a factory like install.  There is a guy on Pirate that has been making adapters for the AW4 to some odd options, so there might be some decent info on Pirate if you're willing to wade through the crap...

[krustyballer16]

 

 

Way WAY back, pre-NAXJA, there was a guy on the old XJ forum by the name of Frank Swygert who ran an AW4 in an AMC Hornet (or Concord -- same animal). He controlled it with a single, 6-position rotary switch.

I found where he's talking about it. Does he do a write up on it?

 

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By the time you wire in an AW4 manual shifter you could wire in the TCU. Doesn't make sense to me since the TCU's are so reliable. I guess a manual controller might be useful on a crawler but not so much on a street rig...

So what all do I need from RADesigns?

I'm lost and confused. Is there a kit or do I need to buy a couple different things? And is it "plug and play"?

 

Edit: so from what I've gathered on their website (I had to slow down to read and understand it) you keep your factory shifter, put it in drive, then shift with the new shift lever? So you've got 2 shifters in there still?

 

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[HOrnbrod]

Install instructions are on the website above for all the different shifter kits available. They all require hard wiring and are not PnP. I'd call or send an email to them for details.

[Eagle]

 

Way WAY back, pre-NAXJA, there was a guy on the old XJ forum by the name of Frank Swygert who ran an AW4 in an AMC Hornet (or Concord -- same animal). He controlled it with a single, 6-position rotary switch.

I found where he's talking about it. Does he do a write up on it?

 

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Not that I can recall, but I think he's still alive and out there on the Internet with a blog. You might be able to contact him. If not, it should be easy enough to dope out the switch sequence. My guess would be that the last position is 4th with torque converter lockup. I imagine you would still need a shifter handle of some sort to go from park to reverse to neutral to drive, and the rotary switch just handles the transitions in drive.

[krustyballer16]

So talked to Rory from RADesigns.

He suggested the Baja shifter and answered some of my questions.

 

I don't think anyone on here has answered my question, unless I over looked it, about what the tcm uses to shift off of. What makes it know when to shift?

Why can't I, when I get the cummins in, just shift the aw4 manually?

 

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[HOrnbrod]

You can shift it manually. When manually shifting the AW4 you will have the 1-2-3-D positions. W/o the TCU inputs you will get 1st gear in both the 1 and 2 positions (no 2nd gear), 3rd gear only in 3 position, and O/D in the D position. That would be maximum suckage in stop-and-go traffic. And the shift linkage be it a floor of column shifter isn't built for all that constant movement.

 

The TCU with all the inputs I mentioned previously does all this automatically, up shifting and down shifting whether accelerating or slowing down.

[omega_rugal]

 

W/o the TCU inputs you will get 1st gear in both the 1 and 2 positions (no 2nd gear)

 

i though the 2-1 position was just 1 notch...

 

i wonder if theres some manual valve "mod" to have the full OD-D-2-1 gear set using only the shift lever...

[gogmorgo]

http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f11/aw4-tcu-wiring-diagram-2331057/

 

It looks to me like the major hurdles of reusing the existing TCU are adapting the throttle position sensor somewhere and mounting the throttle valve cable. I don't know what your Cummins setup uses for accelerator control, but likely not a throttle valve. Other than the throttle valve (controlling kickdown) and the TPS (also sorta controlling kickdown I would imagine, my MJ shifted like I had my foot to the floor when the TPS went bad) the only external input to the TCU is the output speed sensor, (which isn't actually external, it's a reed switch inside the trans) and everything coming from the NSS, all of which would be retained. I expected to see a tach input or something there but there's not. It's been a while since I read the "everything you want to know about the AW4 thread.

 

Although now that I've been thinking about this a bit, you probably don't want the same shift points on an engine with likely a very different redline and rev range from the 4.0?

[krustyballer16]

Ya,...I'm not using the tcu. With the RADesigns Baja shifter I don't need it. My other cummins has the ax15 so I'm used to shifting it.

I asked a bunch more questions and Rory with RADesigns answered them all clearly. Shifting with the Baja shifter won't really be any harder than the 5 speed. Only difference will be using the new torque converter lockout switch. But 1-4 will be simple.

With the Baja shifter, you put the factory shifter in Drive and then shift manually 1-4. You can start out in any gear 1-4 but it will handle like its in too high of a gear if it is, just like a manual.

When you put the factory shifter in the bottom position, 1/2, you'll only have 1 and 2 no matter what the Baja is in.

And you can go to reverse while the Baja is in any gear, you'll actually just be in reverse. Can be 1-4 then go to reverse (even though you should be in 1st by the time you're ready to hit reverse)

It all seems kinda simple now that he explained it.I'll just have to read up on the wiring.

I'm happy with their tech support so far and I'm not even a customer yet!

 

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[krustyballer16]

And yes, the red line and rev range is completely different with the cummins.

I shift at around 1900-2100 rpms now. Max rpms is 2690.

 

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