Dana 30 and 35 to dana 44 help

[Jackrabbit41]

So I have 1987 jeep Comanche long bed with the 4.0l i6 Dana 30 upfront 35 in the rear, 31inch bfg AT, winch, bumper, lift, led bar, and I want bigger axles. I know Dana 30s are good and 35s suck so I want to upgrade to 44s all around. I'm handy with tools and stuff so I want to do this myself. I just need to know what size to buy and what else I need to know. I saw something about WMS. What size do I want for mine? Driveshaft? I just need to know all the things I need for a swap like this. thanks

[Eagle]

What "size" WMS you need for yours?

 

Do you even know what "WMS" means? Because if you don't even understand the terms you're asking about, you aren't nearly ready to undertake a job such as you're contemplating. It's not a simple, bolt-in "swap." The rear might be -- IF you get lucky and find a Dana 44 from a Comanche. A Dana 44 front was never offered in the Comanche, so changing to a D44 there means a whole bunch of custom fabrication.

[WiscoXJ]

the 30 and 35 are not really either good axles, but this topic has come up a million and a half times.

 

try this

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=comanche+club

 

and enter your search.

 

easiest way but not necessarily the cheapest is to but like an artic industries truss with all the mounts on it. odds are you'll have to find a full width d44 and have it shortened

[Zebvance]

What "size" WMS you need for yours?

 

Do you even know what "WMS" means? Because if you don't even understand the terms you're asking about, you aren't nearly ready to undertake a job such as you're contemplating. It's not a simple, bolt-in "swap." The rear might be -- IF you get lucky and find a Dana 44 from a Comanche. A Dana 44 front was never offered in the Comanche, so changing to a D44 there means a whole bunch of custom fabrication.

 

 

Agreed. Unless you find a TJ rubicon d44. that should bolt up. But you will be dropping at least a grand on it.

 

 

Other than that you could do wagoneer dana 44s if you want front and rear. But you have to get the years that have the driver drop front. They are getting harder to find also. And you will have to do a lot of fab work as far as welding on spring perches, coil buckets, shock mounts, control arm mounts, ect.

[Incommando]

 

 

What "size" WMS you need for yours?

Do you even know what "WMS" means? Because if you don't even understand the terms you're asking about, you aren't nearly ready to undertake a job such as you're contemplating. It's not a simple, bolt-in "swap." The rear might be -- IF you get lucky and find a Dana 44 from a Comanche. A Dana 44 front was never offered in the Comanche, so changing to a D44 there means a whole bunch of custom fabrication.

 

 

Agreed. Unless you find a TJ rubicon d44. that should bolt up. But you will be dropping at least a grand on it.

 

 

Other than that you could do wagoneer dana 44s if you want front and rear. But you have to get the years that have the driver drop front. They are getting harder to find also. And you will have to do a lot of fab work as far as welding on spring perches, coil buckets, shock mounts, control arm mounts, ect.

 

The low pinion Rubicon hybrid axle is a combination of a D30 & D44. It is no stronger than a HP D30. 

 

WHY do you want to swap the front ? The stock  D30 is good up until 33's .How big do you feel you need to go tire wise?

 

Much cheaper & much much easier than swapping in a front 44 is to upgrade your D30. You can convert your two-piece cad axle to one-piece Spicer inner and outers with 760 u-joints for about $300 bucks. For a couple of hundred bucks more you can get chrome moly shafts if you want.  Gusset the pass. side upper control arm for $30. Weld on a truss for $30-$300 depending on how crazy you want to get. Or sleeve the tubes from the inside for $120.  Gussets for LCA mounts are  $30. You are now pretty equal to a low pinion Dana 44 like from an '80-newer FSJ ( to get driver's drop) without a ton of fab work to put it into the MJ. 

 

Why do you want a D44 rear axle? The Ford Explorer '96-up 8.8 is an easy swap, is within an inch of being the right width, and gets your rear disc brakes on an axle stronger than a D44 rear. IF you can find a gear ratio matching your own. The rears go for 2$00-$350 here. Add another $200 in parts to get it into your MJ. For about the price most people ask for a  MJ factory D44's you get s superior axle that is easy to find.  

 

. But the easiest rear swap in a 29-spline 8.25 out of a later XJ. It is the exact width and matching your current gear ratio is no problem. It is as close to the common D44 in strength as you will find. Remember that the MJ/XJ D44 is one of the weakest D44 rears due to the unusually small tube size they have.   To swap in a 8.25 you basically only need to move the leaf spring perches in a little and weld on MJ-correct shock mounts. Easy peasy and can be done for about $200 including buying the rear end. Drive shaft mods may or not be needed depending on if you lift it or not.  This swap a no brainer unless you are seriously hard core. 

 

D44's rears, especially MJ/XJ ones,  are no magic axle. Paying the price that people want for a MJ version to be "bolt in" is silly IMHO as there are other better options for less money.  For anything up to 35's modding your front D30 as mentioned and a simple 8.25 swap is your least labor intensive and inexpensive route and will be fine for 90%+ of MJ owners. If you are happy on 31" A/T's then you are well within that 90%.   

 

Hearing things like "dana 44" and "WMS" and using them without understanding the "why" of them just because they are popular terms is a guarantee of wasting a lot time and money.

 

Needing to be told "everything" to do this swap means you have hours of research of readily available information ahead of you. No one can give you the back knowledge you should have for this in a post. The first step is to be brutally honest about how you will actually use your MJ and choose accordingly. Honesty in this appraisal is very important. Good luck. 

[Jackrabbit41]

Should I just swap out the back Dana 35? There's a Dana 44 I found that was pulled out of a older jeep truck, the guy didn't know the name of the vehicle, but it's put together already and only needs new brake rotors.

[Jackrabbit41]

I want a bigger axle because I'm slowly turning this thing into a better wheeling rig. It's my first car and so I'm just trying to do as much as I can. It's a learning process for me. Eventually I want to put on some 35s. And get some air lockers and I don't wanna put an air locker in a 35.

[Megadan]

Depending on your fabrication skills, one of the best options for good axles front and rear would be to find an old bronco and steal the front Dana 44 and rear ford 9in.  As mentioned above, there will be some welding necessary.  Axle WMS is also something to consider.  If you need anything more than those axles with some 35" tires, you need to lay off the skinny pedal or drop some cash on 1 tons lol.

The real question is, what kind of budget do you have to work with?  That, more than anything, will really determine the route you go.

[Jackrabbit41]

Right now I have like 1.5g but in the summer i have a job so my budget ms decent and I'm dough all my own work so I think I'd be fine with cash. My parents would help me out to maybe

[Jackrabbit41]

Also, if I go to a junkyard and find a 97 Cherokee or later, will it for aure have a 29 spline 8.25? Or did they still make 27s then?

[Megadan]

Another option would be to go with a Ford 8.8 from an Explorer.  Multiple benefits going that route.  With either the 8.25 or ford 8.8, you will have to cut off the factory leaf perches on the axles and weld on new ones.  The nice thing about the Explorer axle is that you can find them in a 4.10 ratio and they are readily abundant (and fairly strong).  The biggest weakness they have is they can spin the axle housing tubes in the housing itself, but this can be solved by welding the tubes to the housing.  You can also purchase a C-clip eliminator package from Yukon with upgraded axles for about $560.

There are some things you can do to a Dana 30 to beef it up, and with those steps should be ok with 35" tires.  Definitely upgrade the axle shafts, C bracing, and either a truss or sleeving the tubes. (or both for overkill lol).

[WiscoXJ]

don't do the chry 8.25. I second the bronco idea or an f150 and steel the axles and scrap the rest

[Jackrabbit41]

How d I find my gear ratios out?

[Megadan]

Well, if they are stock ratios, if it was a factory automatic car then it should have 3.55's.  If it was a factory 5spd, then you will have 3.07's.   This is assuming somebody didn't already swap out to different ratios.

 

[Eagle]

Should I just swap out the back Dana 35? There's a Dana 44 I found that was pulled out of a older jeep truck, the guy didn't know the name of the vehicle, but it's put together already and only needs new brake rotors.

So you have no idea what it is or what might be involved in making it fit your truck. Not all Dana 44s were created equal. Some of the early ones had small axle shafts and puny spline counts. They also had two-piece axles (the actual hub was a separate piece that was splined into the axle and held with a large nut). They were very prone to failure.

 

I wheeled my '88 MJ on 31s with a Dana 35 for several years. Get your feet wet before you start throwing money at things you don't yet understand. As Incommando wrote, be honest about how you're going to really use this truck. Even on 31s an MJ is a very capable wheeler. Your goal should be to go for the LEAST amount of lift you need and the SMALLEST tires you'll need to run the trails you plan to see. Anything beyond that is wasted money. The rule of thumb is that the price of lifting increases exponentially -- that is, twice the lift, four times the cost. Don't get caught up in that cycle if you don't need to.

 

Your budget of $1.5k isn't even close to enough for what you think you want. Have you priced 35" tires and 15x12 wheels? have you priced long arm front suspension kits? Have you priced custom drive shafts?

[Megadan]

You can use a backyard mechanic way to figure out a rough estimate of the ratios in the axle.  Use tape to mark a spot on the driveshaft, and on the tire and body.  Line up the tire and body marks, then rotate the wheel (or turn the axle) with axle off the ground and trans in neutral.  Count the number of times the driveshaft rotates in the time it takes the tire to make one revolution.  If the the driveshaft makes 3 revolutions per 1 tire revolution then you will have 3.07's.  3.5 driveshaft revolutions per 1 tire then 3.55's etc.

[Megadan]

For what it's worth, what Eagle said is fairly on point.  I use my truck to travel down some "roads" that are essentially paths created by someone driving across a field or through a wooded area.  I have 2" coil spacers and leaf springs out back with puny little 235/75-15 all terrains of a crap quality, and I do fine even when the trails are muddy.  I eventually plan to lift it a little more and run 33's, but with my 3.07 gears it would be too much of a dog until I put better ratios under it.  Honestly, I would rather install lockers or at least a limited slip up front to match the rear before I did anything else.

If your goal is to make a hardcore off-road rig, be prepared to go broke and still break stuff.  Even "strong" stuff can break with hard use.

[Eagle]

One final thought -- check your state's laws regarding lifted vehicles. You may create your "dream" wheelin' machine, only to find that it's not legal to drive on the street.

 

And before you can even say, "But they don't enforce those laws," -- well, yes, they do. They don't always enforce them, but I got nailed just for having 31" tires that stuck out of the sheet metal too far. If your truck is going to be primarily a daily driver and see a trail maybe three or four weekends out of the year -- build it as a daily driver, and pick trails that are within the truck's capability.

[Pete M]

I'd put armor ahead of 35" tires.  I didn't and ended up smashing both rockers on a seemingly simple trail ride in the hills. :(  2" spacers up front, longer shackles in the rear, some used but decent 31" mud tires on stock rims for trail use, and protect those rockers and get some strong yank points front and rear.  easily within your budget and it'll get ya out there to see what your truck can do. then upgrade as needed later. :thumbsup:

[Incommando]

Many people pound the 8.25 pretty hard. The later ones are every bit as good as a D44 and better than a Comanche D44.

 

An "old jeep truck" source for a D44 rear is probably a J10. It will be wider, It will probably not have a matching gear ratio. It will have six lug rims that will not match the front 5 lug pattern you already have.

 

I do not mean this to be insulting:You are young, inexperienced , and on a budget. . Your knowledge level is not yet where it should be to do such things. The #1 screw up on builds, especially by new builders, is to do too much and reach too high. The time involved and nickel and dime parts costs become astronomical. All too often the project gets abandoned and sold of at a loss. Building for "what I eventually want to do someday " is almost guaranteed to cause this to happen in your situation.  Build it reasonably, have fun with it, and upgrade as needed.

 

"Air locker" is another point where you hear of something or guys shooting the bull say "these are this best." Well, that is an opinion. For a rear locker they are unnecessarily expensive and complicated.  There may be an argument for a selectable locker in the front but I have drivne at least 150,000 miles in various Jeeps with a lunch box locker in the rear with no issue. Winter driving? No problem if you know how to drive. We get much snow and ice here and I have never stayed home because the jeep was too hard to drive. 

 

There are many ways to do an MJ. My build in my signature was relatively cheap. I have an MJ that can cruise comfortably on the highway, is daily driver dependable, gets taken to off road parks at least twice a month, and gets abused. I have people come up to me on a regular basis when off-roading to comment on its ability. It is the baddest jeep out there? Not even close. But it does a hell of a good job and was built on a budget in a driveway.

[Incommando]

I'd put armor ahead of 35" tires.  2" spacers up front, longer shackles in the rear, some used but decent 31" mud tires on stock rims for trail use, and protect those rockers and get some strong yank points front and rear.  easily within your budget and it'll get ya out there to see what your truck can do. then upgrade as needed later. :thumbsup:

This. I use 32x11.5's. a 35 only gives you 1.5" of additional ground clearance not 3" as it seems.

[Jackrabbit41]

Where do you guys get your skid plays and rocker guards? I can find some rocker gaurds bits no skid plates and most company's iced emailed said they don't know of any.

[Tommy]

I was planning on beefing up the d30 and swapping in a disc brake 8.8, but now I'm thinking I might go with the d44/9 inch from a bronco. I'm planning on going lsx though, so I'll want more strength. Right now I'm running 33s on stock axles and have plenty of ground clearance. Spadano is making nice rocker sliders.

[Pete M]

Where do you guys get your skid plays and rocker guards? I can find some rocker guards bits no skid plates and most company's iced emailed said they don't know of any.

 

 

made all mine ('cept for the rollbar).  you'd be amazed what you can build with a $10 angle grinder and a $20 drill. :D  found a couple local fab guys to do the welding.

 

 

[Eagle]

There's a lot to be said for making up your own parts for armor. In addition to the grinder and drill, toss in a Harbor Freight flux-core wire welder. Costs just over $100 and frees you up to do a lot.

 

 

http://www.harborfreight.com/90-amp-ac-120-volt-flux-cored-welder-61849.html

 

Flux core isn't going to give you the best welds in the world. With practice, it's good enough for a lot of general purpose welding. For critical parts, you use the cheap wire welder to tack your creation together, then take it to a professional and have him lay down the final welds.