Fernando87mj Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 so i just read this new article about the wrangler not having solid axles . If they do go ifs/irs then i guess ill just buy a tj or a jk wrangler, anyways here's the link to the article http://wot.motortrend.com/does-the-next-gen-jeep-wrangler-need-to-have-solid-axles-421105.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjrev10 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 I would bet they will be IFS/IRS. Blame the government. LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadinator Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Don't care for the JK's either. Just don't like the looks as well. Just keeping the TJ. Maybe add another one to the fleet down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fernando87mj Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 pretty sad though first they ruin they ruin the cherokee name and now this , I really have no faith on the next gen wagoneer oh well atleast I still got my Comanche. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 You know what? Screw it. IFS rides better. You want a wheeler, swap it to SA, or buy something older. Not everything has to be an offroad vehicle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitroxsteve Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 They went through this when the wrangler changed in 2007. Everyone was talking ifs but it turned out it remained straight axle. I could be wrong but I don't think it will change. Jeep is selling the JK like hot cakes. I think manufactures start these rumors to generate sales from from people who are afraid they will miss out on the current model. Harley Davidson does it all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjrev10 Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 You know what? Screw it. IFS rides better. You want a wheeler, swap it to SA, or buy something older. Not everything has to be an offroad vehicle Agreed. I bet most JKs never see dirt anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I would blame their Italian owners who have very little recent solid-axle experience and share none of Jeep's history. That being said in stock form a full independent suspension stock Wrangler could probably perform as well as the stock live axle Wrangler. Now here is the kicker: that would be dandy for FIAT as they do not care about jeepers who modify their vehicles using aftermarket parts that make them no profit. The best point of live-axle use, IMHO, is the relatively inexpensive methods to lift and modify the vehicle. FIAT does not care about that at all. No manufacturer cares what us cheap-butted jeepers will do with a jeep 2 or 3 owners past its original sale. Also remember this: The new Cherokee is nothing but an AWD Dodge Dart station wagon just as the Patriot/Compass were re-bodied AWD Dodge Calibers. And the Dart's origins, and therefore the Cherokee's origins? The FIAT produced sub-compact Alfa Romeo Giulietta. And when I think off-roading I immediately think Alfa Romeo Giulietta. If you want to see the origin of the new Cherokee click here: http://www.alfaromeo.com/com/#/models/giulietta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dasbulliwagen Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 ^^^^ The only thing the new Cherokee has in common with the dart and the other cars is the base platform pan. The rest id different and built for a specific purpose for whatever vehicle its going to be. The reviews from the off road mags have all been pretty good so far even regarding the fact that you bring up. Will it ever be as capable or modable as the XJ? No. Neither is the KJ, but it is happening and will happen with these 10-15 years down the road. And now to the point I was going to make before I read your post. If they do go independant suspension on the new wrangler, it would be cool if they could engineer the Rubicon to be solid axle variant and have all the standard models Independant. I follow www.allpar.com religiously and have seen no word of what you are refering. They did do an article a while back going over the Jeep front suspensions, but there was no word of what it might mean for the next Wrangler. The head of Jeep is a die hard Jeep guy, and knows what Jeeps legacy means. Why do you think Chrysler bought AMC in the first place. It was only for Jeep. The rest got cut. And this same reason is part of why FIAT was willing to take us over. That and Dodge trucks and full size cars to round out their lineup. I think the next Wrangler will stay solid axle, just because of the legacy and because we are the only ones still doing it in that segment. You don't buy a Jeep Wrangler for its nice ride, you buy it for its history and capability. I think the heads of Jeep still know this and hope they do the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 The "base platform pan" comprises about 60% of the car's components and we should not think of it as a "floor pan" from an older vehicle. What percentage of a car makes up the cosmetic form outside of the pan including the entire body, windows, interior, wheels/tires? Maybe 30-40%? The Ford Focus, Mazda3, and Volvo S40 also share a platform and at least 60% of their components while the uninformed buy them with no idea that the are the same car in most respects but appearance and tuning of existing components. The vast majority of the new Cherokees's sales are predicted to be of the front-wheel drive version with the same engine as the Dart, the 2.4L I4. So essentially I was incorrect when I stated that it was an all wheel drive Dart station wagon: for most it will be exactly a Dart station wagon. I think it exemplifies my claim that the new overlords at FIAT do not have Jeep heritage or later modifications in mind. The reviews that I have read often cautioned against expecting much out of any but the Trailhawk that runs about $35,000 as tested in most reviews. I have found numerous incorrect statements in ALLPAR over the years. I have seen several corrected when they were publicized. And ALLPAR's opinion of the Dodge Calib....uh, Jeep Compass? http://www.allpar.com/reviews/13/compass-patriot-offroad.html . I have also read positive reviews of the Patriot/Compass twins in mags and blogs, including allpar, that rely on ad revenue to survive. I am not really ready to jump on their bandwagon though. The three only share a basic platform pan as the bodies and cosmetics are unique. But do you really think that the Caliber/Patriot/Compass are different cars because of that? Want a kicker? The Mitsubishi GS is also on that platform. I am not about to try to lift a Mitsu GS and tackle Superlift Off-road Park. I take it by your referring to the company as "us" you work for Chrysler? Or do you work for franchisee dealership and not Chrysler directly? Either way how close to the mark do my points on the "MK" platform's products land? I have stated this before and will again: With equal mods and tire size a KJ will do anything an XJ will do. The difference comes in the ability to mod the vehicle beyond a certain point. I routinely wheeled my '05 KJ with a V6, NSG370 six-speed stick, NP241 x-fer found only with this combo, 2.5" lift, rear locker, on 31" tires with numerous XJ's with similar mods. It was never "outperformed" by a similar XJ and sadly, outperformed my 4.5" lifted MJ with an LSD D44 on 32's over the same obstacles. The fact that a 6-speed KJ equals an auto TJ Rubicon's crawl ratio is no doubt part of it. That is personal experience and a 1st person account. The creation of a single line live axle version of the Rubicon would increase the cost of that vehicle beyond reason. "Cool" in no way equals "realistic." They could make it with portal axles and 40" tires from the factory and that,too, would be cool. But not realistic. "When Fiat presented its five-year plan in November, 2009 – Allpar has an in-depth piece on it – we were told that vehicles on Fiat platforms would have Jeep DNA like the seven-slot grille, "short overhang, trapezoid wheel-arches, functional interior ... visibility, durable materials, handling in bad weather, advanced four-wheel drive and towing capacity." The plan was "to re-establish the brand with a new look, feel and attitude," focusing on on-road manners, fuel efficiency and adding content for its "largest group of owners," the "Dreamers..." Doesn't sound like any real commitment to "legacy" exists beyond appearance and name plate. Jeep DNA? Only in the way that Bill Shoemaker and Andre Roussimoff share the same DNA. FIAT bought Chrysler to gain a foot-hold in the U.S. as it was cheaper than building that large of an infrastructure and having it key-ready. They had been making overtures to this for years but the build-from-ground-up model was considered too expensive. Re-body-ing existing products to move away from their polarizing designs into American-friendly ones is their goal. That Jeep and truck sales are increasing is a bonus and is based mainly on products that pre-date their control of the company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyaji Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 ^ I think everything he said was on target. . Independent suspension is the right way to go for street driving, which is where 99.X% of the miles accumulated are driven. Safety not only of the occupants but also everyone in other vehicles operating in proximity would be enhanced, as would be handling and road manners in general. . I would like to see a solution that offers modification for better off-road performance (all the way to the extreme), but I don't see a profit there for the manufacturer. I therefore fear this may be the beginning of the end for unrestricted off-road modding of Jeeps, and probably for other makes as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 The jeep we know and love is dead. Oh well. It's about time to just let it be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Aye. Time marches on driven by the bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyinajeep726 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I think Jeep died in 2006 when they ceased production of the 4.0. I understand why they did it, but that was the start of the downward slope that is now Jeep... I'm not a fan of the JKs but if stuck with the option of it versus any other Jeep post 2006, I'd get it for the modify-ability... The only exception to that (to me) is the Grand Cherokee SRT8. But I, in no way, would ever take the GC SRT8 offroad. In reality, I'll keep my '88 XJ for my wheeling and my '86 MJ for the daily drives to work and what not. When gas gets totally outrageous, I'll cross that bridge when I get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GirsMJ86 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I'd take a 4dr JK in a heartbeat, as well as a 2012+ compass. Both rigs would be on road mostly with very little off road other than in the grass at campgrounds and such. The compass would receive a lift though or no dice. My reasoning? They are a jeep, can hold multiple people, 4wd to get through snow and slush, and one of them really isn't meant for much more. There are very few vehicles in another brand I would buy, so these would be my most logical choice if I needed more passenger room. If I want a hardcore off road rig, I'd buy a KJ, TJ, or XJ in that order. But I'm not into rock crawling and such so that'll never matter to me. I'd honestly buy the compass and lift it before the JK though the more I have looked into and thought about things. Unless the diesel wrangler actually does happen, in which case I might buy a 4dr anyways just because as a DD and let the MJ be my "exotic" so long as the styling doesn't change to something horrible like the new cherokee. You can't expect every single vehicle produced under the jeep brand to be a beast off road rig. In reality only the wrangler was meant to fill that role, all the rest were just meant to be capable to varying degrees. AMC, Chrysler, Fiat... none of them have cared that the vehicles are "easy/cheap" for you to modify since they didn't make money off the parts. The parts they provided to "build" the thing were higher priced for a reason. Independent suspension vehicles are perfectly capable off road, they are just limited in ease of building to be better. If you truly need a solid axle, swap it in. While you're at it, swap in portals so you'll feel even better. Even though I loathe them, I think we're forgetting that the H1 was independent and that's one of the reasons it took over in the military. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyinajeep726 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 I wasn't aware you could lift a Compass... We are talking about this Dodge Caliber thing below, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GirsMJ86 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 http://www.mopar.com/community/75th-anniversary/mopar-jeep-compass-true-north.html It's not a lot, but then again I'm not a fan of big lift. Most lift I'd put on an MJ? 4.5 inches. Most on a J-10? 3 inches. Then find the right size tires to make it look proportional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Yeah, but it's "Trail Rated®". Unfortunately also "Extremely Ugly Rated®" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 http://www.mopar.com/community/75th-anniversary/mopar-jeep-compass-true-north.html It's not a lot, but then again I'm not a fan of big lift. Most lift I'd put on an MJ? 4.5 inches. Most on a J-10? 3 inches. Then find the right size tires to make it look proportional. The vehicle pictured here could easily be a Caliber, Patriot, Compass or Mitsubishi GS as mentioned above. This is a high-dollar factory creation equal to a concept car and as such may or may not even function. The lift kits for the MK platform are basically small, up to 2", spacers for the factory coils. Even this small of a change requires new rear upper control arms as the geometry is wrong without them. The most popular lift is by Rocky Road Outfitters, an outfit with a dubious reputation that has sold lifts in the past that they continued to sell even after overwhelming evidence that they were both unsafe and damaging to the vehicle. And that 2" lift? It allows you to fit massive 29" tall tires...but a check of the Compass boards show that despite RRO's claims those tires rub (surprise surprise). 28" is considered the maximum. And make sure you don't have the CVT... ANY lift and larger tires is apparently frying that slush-box. As the CVT is the only version offered as trail-rated due to its CPU program that is supposed to mimic a low range that is problematic. These things run a shaft straight out of the FWD transaxle to the rear. As there is no way to have a "low range" without a transfer case when you select low range it actually just changes the gas pedal inputs and tranny program to make you think you have a low range. If you wish it for an AWD inclement weather vehicle that can handle dirt or unimproved roads, you might be onto something. Realistic expectations up front will probably lead to a more satisfying ownership experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadinator Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 While I was selling cars, I drove a couple of new JK's. I don't personally care for the size of them and never have grown to like the oversized plastic fenders, the Chryco V6 is powerful. It was fun to drive, but I still like TJ's better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onlyinajeep726 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Lots of good information presented here. Function supersedes form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GirsMJ86 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 Yeah, but it's "Trail Rated®". Unfortunately also "Extremely Ugly Rated®" Matter of opinion, I really like these mini grand cherokee ones. Much better than the styling of any other brands offering in this same market category IMO. And the trail rated thing has always been a marketing gimmick, no matter the vehicle. You want to talk extreme ugly... let's talk about the commander or the kk libby. If you wish it for an AWD inclement weather vehicle that can handle dirt or unimproved roads, you might be onto something. Realistic expectations up front will probably lead to a more satisfying ownership experience. .For that line right there I offer you a :cheers: . So many people look at the brand jeep without realistic expectations and expect everything they ever produce forever to live up to the CJ. Not just a jeeper thing though. These things are nothing more than AWD vehicles meant for snow, which is all I care about really when looking at a vehicles like this. If I was in the market for a new vehicle, the top requirement is AWD or 4x4 because of winters around here and how poorly the roads are plowed. Many vehicles (read: sedans like the Fusion and such) come onto the market with AWD versions, but then the AWD version is dropped usually for poor sales. I count on vehicles like the above to provide that segment. So maybe I'm more the target audience new jeep is aiming for than everyone else here. Maybe I'm just more grounded and don't live in the idea that if I buy a jeep it must be able to conquer the toughest climbs in the ozarks or it might as well be a power wheels. If I didn't require a truck, I would have hunted me down a final year AWD Talon again since the one I had plowed through snow and ice halfway up it's wheels like it wasn't there. An AWD wagon like the compass is more practical though because of passenger space which is something I like the idea of having as I get older. I still say the wrangler, independent suspension or not, will more than likely always be the most capable stock vehicle on the market. It does after all fill a market segment that is making them money and no one else truly offers. Going independent will just widen the appeal and lessen the "money loss" that fiat sees when you cheaply upgrade a base model in the aftermarket. This would get more people to actually fork it over for the factory built rubicon. 90% of all wranglers I see anyways are just X models with basic tires on them, purchased because people like the look, want to be "part of the jeep experience", or just need 4x4 for winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ride172 Posted November 2, 2013 Share Posted November 2, 2013 The only Jeeps I will ever own will be solid front axle. Jeep can do whatever it wants. People can choose to buy them or not. I feel they will lose many loyal customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 I feel they're not going to "lose" any customers. Anyone buying a NEW vehicle is NOT a jeeper. Tell us honestly when the last time 99% of "true" jeep owners bought a brand new, off the line jeep. that number will be minimal next to what they will actually sell to oh, you know, everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minuit Posted November 3, 2013 Share Posted November 3, 2013 I personally don't care what they do with the new Wrangler. Besides, 99% of the JKs (and TJs to some extent) I see have flowery tire covers or "It's a Jeep thing, you wouldn't understand" stickers or something equally ridiculous. In the eyes of your average person, a Wrangler is just a car anyway. I guarantee you that at least 3/4s of the JKs sold have never seen more extensive wheeling than a gravel road here and there. Yes, this post is very ironic coming from the owner of a 2wd Comanche. :rotfl2: No flowery tire covers here though! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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