redwolf624 Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 i'm havin another tranny issue, i know it's not the clutch slave or the master cylinder, the master was replaced before i bought it and the clutch slave i just replaced and bled properly, with that bein said, ONLY when the tranny is cold do i have this issue, up-shiftin i have NO problem but comin to a red light i'll press in the clutch (and keep on it) throw it in 4th (unless i'm feelin lazy and keep it in 5th) and press the break pedal to stop then i'll go to 2nd then 1st all with the clutch pedal pressed in while all this is goin on, but like i said ealier only when the tranny is cold does it shift into neutral but it won't let me shift into 1st or 2nd, sometimes 3rd, i'll have to double clutch which i'm not a fan of doin, any ideas what's breakin this time, is it the whole tranny, a warm up issue from me not lettin the truck warm up enough or is it the syncros? Redwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue88Comanche Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 is the tranny oil topped off? has the soft line between the master and slave cylinder been replaced? my old BA-10/5 would have shifting issues if the oil was low. later i also had to replace the soft line, it had a crack but was not leaking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyaji Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 I expect your transmission grease is thickening up with the colder temperatures as winter approaches. If so, the problem should go away after you warm up to operating temperature. . Alternately, maybe your clutch is dragging a little from not being properly adjusted. Check your free pedal to make sure you have enough stroke to completely disengage the clutch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwolf624 Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 is the tranny oil topped off? has the soft line between the master and slave cylinder been replaced? my old BA-10/5 would have shifting issues if the oil was low. later i also had to replace the soft line, it had a crack but was not leaking. not sure if the level dropped any, i really hope not cause that gl5 stuff smells bad, i'm not sure if the soft line has been replaced, i'd asumme that when the master was replaced that was replaced, but i'll check, what's the easiest way to check it? Redwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwolf624 Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 I expect your transmission grease is thickening up with the colder temperatures as winter approaches. If so, the problem should go away after you warm up to operating temperature. . Alternately, maybe your clutch is dragging a little from not being properly adjusted. Check your free pedal to make sure you have enough stroke to completely disengage the clutch. that's what my dad was thinkin, bout the temps, and my clutch is deffently adjusted right, the catch point is at the bottom and i tested that today, had it in first, no pressure on the gas pedal and let off on the clutch, once i hit that catch point it stalled, Redwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue88Comanche Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 is the tranny oil topped off? has the soft line between the master and slave cylinder been replaced? my old BA-10/5 would have shifting issues if the oil was low. later i also had to replace the soft line, it had a crack but was not leaking. not sure if the level dropped any, i really hope not cause that gl5 stuff smells bad, i'm not sure if the soft line has been replaced, i'd asumme that when the master was replaced that was replaced, but i'll check, what's the easiest way to check it? Redwolf there is not really a way to check the line while it is still hooked up, so its usually best to replace it anyway (its cheap enough), more so if you don't know when it was replaced last Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitroxsteve Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 I would say its normal to shift a little hard with cold oil. My truck does but only for the first coulpe miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxmj Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 is the tranny oil topped off? has the soft line between the master and slave cylinder been replaced? my old BA-10/5 would have shifting issues if the oil was low. later i also had to replace the soft line, it had a crack but was not leaking. not sure if the level dropped any, i really hope not cause that gl5 stuff smells bad, i'm not sure if the soft line has been replaced, i'd asumme that when the master was replaced that was replaced, but i'll check, what's the easiest way to check it? Redwolf Check the fluid and top it up if low.....that is step 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oyaji Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 As an aside, when I learned about it around 45 years ago transmission lubricant was properly called "grease" and not "oil"- the difference between grease and oil being the addition of soap. I don't know if soap is still part of the formula, but years back when you got water into 90-weight transmission grease in the jug, quite a bit would emulsify with the grease and turn it milky in appearance (doubtless because of the soap content). I dunno if it is still made the same way, but I expect the lubrication qualities suffered little with some water content, which was probably part of the reason for the inclusion of soap. Once the friction from running heated up the grease, it would boil out the water content over time. It's not my specialty, but I was told by axle design engineers more than once that temperature in the differential housing of heavy trucks can exceed 350 degrees! I expect a manual transmission can get just as hot. . I noticed some years back a trend for modern documentation to call for "gear oil" - makes me wonder if soap is still used in the formulation... Whatever the ingredients, it gets mighty stiff when cold - just ask our Canadian friends! I reckon they use 70-weight for winter use - maybe even a lower viscosity than that in the most extreme cold conditions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwolf624 Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 is the tranny oil topped off? has the soft line between the master and slave cylinder been replaced? my old BA-10/5 would have shifting issues if the oil was low. later i also had to replace the soft line, it had a crack but was not leaking. not sure if the level dropped any, i really hope not cause that gl5 stuff smells bad, i'm not sure if the soft line has been replaced, i'd asumme that when the master was replaced that was replaced, but i'll check, what's the easiest way to check it? Redwolf there is not really a way to check the line while it is still hooked up, so its usually best to replace it anyway (its cheap enough), more so if you don't know when it was replaced last true, i'll see if i can see if it's been changed before i bought the MJ I would say its normal to shift a little hard with cold oil. My truck does but only for the first coulpe miles. yup, that's exactly what happens for me, unless it's 75 degrees or hotter is the tranny oil topped off? has the soft line between the master and slave cylinder been replaced? my old BA-10/5 would have shifting issues if the oil was low. later i also had to replace the soft line, it had a crack but was not leaking. not sure if the level dropped any, i really hope not cause that gl5 stuff smells bad, i'm not sure if the soft line has been replaced, i'd asumme that when the master was replaced that was replaced, but i'll check, what's the easiest way to check it? Redwolf Check the fluid and top it up if low.....that is step 1 in the master cylinder or the fill plug on the tranny? Redwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxmj Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 is the tranny oil topped off? has the soft line between the master and slave cylinder been replaced? my old BA-10/5 would have shifting issues if the oil was low. later i also had to replace the soft line, it had a crack but was not leaking. not sure if the level dropped any, i really hope not cause that gl5 stuff smells bad, i'm not sure if the soft line has been replaced, i'd asumme that when the master was replaced that was replaced, but i'll check, what's the easiest way to check it? Redwolf there is not really a way to check the line while it is still hooked up, so its usually best to replace it anyway (its cheap enough), more so if you don't know when it was replaced last true, i'll see if i can see if it's been changed before i bought the MJ >I would say its normal to shift a little hard with cold oil. My truck does but only for the first coulpe miles. yup, that's exactly what happens for me, unless it's 75 degrees or hotter is the tranny oil topped off? has the soft line between the master and slave cylinder been replaced? my old BA-10/5 would have shifting issues if the oil was low. later i also had to replace the soft line, it had a crack but was not leaking. not sure if the level dropped any, i really hope not cause that gl5 stuff smells bad, i'm not sure if the soft line has been replaced, i'd asumme that when the master was replaced that was replaced, but i'll check, what's the easiest way to check it? Redwolf Check the fluid and top it up if low.....that is step 1 in the master cylinder or the fill plug on the tranny? Redwolf Master Cylinder .....having to double pump the clutch is a sign that leads me to believe your fluid is low Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnuck Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Wait a sec! Do NOT put the gear oil in the master cyl! It needs Castrol GTLMA or synthetic brake fluid. Regular brake fluid eats up the REAL rubber seals in these master and slave cyls! You need to change the oil in the trans to Redline MTL 75-140 or thinner to make it shift when it starts freezing out. The wrong oil makes it hard to shift when cold and beats the snot out of your synchros! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwolf624 Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 Wait a sec! Do NOT put the gear oil in the master cyl! It needs Castrol GTLMA or synthetic brake fluid. Regular brake fluid eats up the REAL rubber seals in these master and slave cyls! You need to change the oil in the trans to Redline MTL 75-140 or thinner to make it shift when it starts freezing out. The wrong oil makes it hard to shift when cold and beats the snot out of your synchros! so dot 3 wouldn't work :???: if not i'm screwed, also i went with the gear oil for my tranny that the owners manual said to go with, don't remember what oil that is off the top of my head and my front yard is flooded so once the water level goes down enough to get to my MJ i'll look up the gear oil i put in the tranny, Redwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockfrog Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 DUMP THE GL-5 OUT OF THAT TRANS, it uses Brass synchros and GL-5 will dissolve the brass synchros ... you need GL-3 or 4 Spec oil. For the Clutch fluid look for Girling spec fluid as it is safe to use ... usually that means Castrol. But get on that trans fluid change asap ... the GL-5 spec was a printing error in your original manual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwolf624 Posted October 10, 2013 Author Share Posted October 10, 2013 DUMP THE GL-5 OUT OF THAT TRANS, it uses Brass synchros and GL-5 will dissolve the brass synchros ... you need GL-3 or 4 Spec oil. For the Clutch fluid look for Girling spec fluid as it is safe to use ... usually that means Castrol. But get on that trans fluid change asap ... the GL-5 spec was a printing error in your original manual. i thought the ax5 didn't have brass synchros? i used 75w-90 gear oil, didn't have a problem up untill this cold snap, Redwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carnuck Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 4 cyl is AX4 or AX5 and can withstand the GL5 for awhile (gets harder to shift as it goes along). 6 cyl is BA 10/5 and must take the earlier fluid (Peugeot spec for the same trans is 30W synthetic motor oil and they designed it). The factory clutch master cap said Castrol GTLMA only. The other non-synthetic brake fluids absorb water and destroy the real rubber seals. If someone made a neoprene rubber set for them, so many wouldn't go bad after just a year of use from new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockfrog Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 the issue is the phosphorous/sulfurous compounds in the GL5 literally corrode the Brass synchro's used in the AX5 and 15 transmissions ... the BA 10/5 doesn't have the issue as it uses a spring and steel synchro assembly ... the BA has other issues but the Aisin transmissions do have a problem with GL5 gear oil as a result of the Brass synchro's. It's not immediate, but it will happen over time. It is the EP additives that are actually corrosive to yellow metals (which is Brass), the spec for Aisin trans' is GL3 which has been supeceded by GL4. Chrysler has admitted in the past the the GL5 printed spec was a misprint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankTheDog Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I run Mobil 1 10w30 in my AX15. I imagine it will work just fine in the ax5. It's been in there for 50,000 miles and it works good as new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwolf624 Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 the issue is the phosphorous/sulfurous compounds in the GL5 literally corrode the Brass synchro's used in the AX5 and 15 transmissions ... the BA 10/5 doesn't have the issue as it uses a spring and steel synchro assembly ... the BA has other issues but the Aisin transmissions do have a problem with GL5 gear oil as a result of the Brass synchro's. It's not immediate, but it will happen over time. It is the EP additives that are actually corrosive to yellow metals (which is Brass), the spec for Aisin trans' is GL3 which has been supeceded by GL4. Chrysler has admitted in the past the the GL5 printed spec was a misprint. alright thanks so should i look for GL3 or 4? I run Mobil 1 10w30 in my AX15. I imagine it will work just fine in the ax5. It's been in there for 50,000 miles and it works good as new. motor oil?? Redwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockfrog Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Yep straight motor oil is fine as well, used to be time tranny oil was just plain 30W. gear oil is graded differently than motor oil ... 10w30 is equivalent to 75w90 ... they just have different additive packages. I run Mobil 1 10w30 in my AX15. I imagine it will work just fine in the ax5.It's been in there for 50,000 miles and it works good as new. motor oil?? Redwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwolf624 Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 Yep straight motor oil is fine as well, used to be time tranny oil was just plain 30W. gear oil is graded differently than motor oil ... 10w30 is equivalent to 75w90 ... they just have different additive packages. I run Mobil 1 10w30 in my AX15. I imagine it will work just fine in the ax5. It's been in there for 50,000 miles and it works good as new. motor oil?? Redwolf but since 10w30 is the same as 70w 90 gear oil wouldn't it have the same compound that eats up the brass syncros in the AX 5 and AX15? Redwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockfrog Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 NO, as I stated before it's the EP additives that are corrosive to the brass synchro's. It's what they put in the oil that causes the problem, not the oil. I didn't say the oils were the same I said they were equivalent. The viscosities are similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwolf624 Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 NO, as I stated before it's the EP additives that are corrosive to the brass synchro's. It's what they put in the oil that causes the problem, not the oil. I didn't say the oils were the same I said they were equivalent. The viscosities are similar. ok, i got it now, so if i drain my tranny and add either GL3 or GL4 or 10w 30 motor oil i'll be good right? Redwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockfrog Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 yep, should help things out, but whatever damage is already there is there. Hopefully the wierd shifting issues weren't wear related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwolf624 Posted October 14, 2013 Author Share Posted October 14, 2013 yep, should help things out, but whatever damage is already there is there. Hopefully the wierd shifting issues weren't wear related. i hope not, i mean, if i double clutch it'd be fine but that's only when the tranny is cold, Redwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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