long arm upgrade

[89eliminator]

so i was thinking of going to a long arm setup. did anyone ever make one and do you have any pictures of it. i know the concept, just need to see some pics of one.

[Rob S]

Any XJ Longarm kit will work in the front. RE makes a MJ kit that includes rear springs. I have RE Longarms in my TJ, pretty good system. Claytons are very high quailty too, worth a look.

[89eliminator]

i am gonna be making my own. way cheaper

[DirtyComanche]

I'd look on NAXJA for setups... Much as I hate the site, they have lots of LA builds.

 

 

 

There's very little too them. Be aware they are quick and dirty, and definatly not the 'best'.

[JeepcoMJ]

so does that mean you'll be selling your adj. control arms? :D let me know :D

[jslamerman]

Any XJ Longarm kit will work in the front. RE makes a MJ kit that includes rear springs. I have RE Longarms in my TJ, pretty good system. Claytons are very high quailty too, worth a look.

 

Claytons will work on an MJ, but the RE kit IS NOT designed for the MJ, and they will tell you so. (They don't advertise a long arm for the MJ, just the XJ). I fitted one I got off ebay to my MJ, and with some fab work, itll fit, just have to use some patience, and a plasma helps too.

[feerocknok]

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=899457

I'll be going to long arms as this summer's project. Probably 3 link similar to this design:

http://www.comancheclub.com/forums/view ... c&start=15

[89eliminator]

what do you mean by "quick and dirty". whats so bad about them.

 

as far as selling my adjustable control arms, i would have to see. i have 2in shackles, 2in add a leaf, 3 inch coils, 2 inch spacers that i am trying to sell as a kit. so i might add the control arms in the package.

[DirtyComanche]

what do you mean by "quick and dirty". whats so bad about them.

 

 

The have some inherent bind - which typically isn't a problem for jeep users. However, on a full-size rig (fords...) it can actually cause axle tube seperation. This is minor and normally can be over-come with using enough bushings on the axle side (cheap rubber ones work best... they give lots).

 

 

The real problem with them is that they have horrid dive/squat and unloading tendencies. This is because it is impossible to get the geometry at all right on them and still have them flex/ride decent. This means stopping suddenly will cause a 'nose dive'. Likewise trying to brake downhill can lead to an endo. They also have a hop tendency when you hammer on the throttle as they pull down the rear of the truck downwards and lift the front. This is worse if you 'wrist' the setup to eliminate the bind tendency.

 

 

All in all they work alright, but they're quick and dirty. Certainly not great. However, many people run them without complaint. A panharded 3-link is a far better setup - but with it you can't just go 'oh, I'm gonna make my arms (random number) long!' and have things work out at all okay.

 

 

 

Oh, do yourself a favour and buy good joints (rebuildable heims or cartridge joints) for the frame end. Don't use any of that 'twisting thread' crap like you'll see on more than a few comercially sold setups out there.

[jage]

Any XJ Longarm kit will work in the front. RE makes a MJ kit that includes rear springs. I have RE Longarms in my TJ, pretty good system. Claytons are very high quailty too, worth a look.

 

Not true if it uses the LCA (lower control arm) mounts as the MJ has extra bracing. Also if the kit requires cutting them, well now is a good time to think about a plasma cutter!

[feerocknok]

Dirty, you're talking about radius arm set-ups, right?

My Yota will be radius arms next month because it's so basic.

[89eliminator]

so you think it wouldn't be an ideal setup for a dd/minor off roader?

[DirtyComanche]

Dirty, you're talking about radius arm set-ups, right?

My Yota will be radius arms next month because it's so basic.

 

 

 

Yeah. That I am. They're cheap and dirty, or simple, if you want.

 

 

For the amount of effort required they work well, but they aren't by any means great. A LOT of people use them and like them. I'm not into them after seeing them in action a bunch and having had problems with my own. That was trying to do more technical trails though...

 

 

Best setup on the street? No, not really. Most people/manufacterors combate the dive by going with a VERY STIFF front coil. However, between stiff coils and an anti-sway bar they ride fairly well and don't misbehave too badly.

[89eliminator]

i was just hoping to make a long arm kit and keep all of the other suspension stuff i have. 6.5 rustys coils, shocks.

[DirtyComanche]

i was just hoping to make a long arm kit and keep all of the other suspension stuff i have. 6.5 rustys coils, shocks.

 

 

The rusty's coils are stiff enough it'll be fine. At least as long as they're the same as mine were. You're going to lean a bunch on corners, so no ralley racing!

[89eliminator]

now after all of that input, i am not sure what i am going to do.

[feerocknok]

I've seen enough radius arm set-ups on the road to feel comfortable with 3-link or radius arm front for myself. However, I've never driven one myself. Can't be completely unsafe or there'd be alot less of em on pavement.

[jage]

I've seen enough radius arm set-ups on the road to feel comfortable with 3-link or radius arm front for myself. However, I've never driven one myself. Can't be completely unsafe or there'd be alot less of em on pavement.

 

I have to remember that: Since everyone's doing it, it must be safe.

 

:brows:

[feerocknok]

I've seen enough radius arm set-ups on the road to feel comfortable with 3-link or radius arm front for myself. However, I've never driven one myself. Can't be completely unsafe or there'd be alot less of em on pavement.

 

I have to remember that: Since everyone's doing it, it must be safe.

 

:brows:

I follow the crowd and jump off the bridge with em. What can I say?

[jslamerman]

See, this is what happens when one reads too much, but not enough. All the squat/anti squat stuff on the street stems directly from TJs, linked in the REAR with long arms. It is then exajerated by the unloading of the front. You will NOT have these issues with just a long arm in the front and leaves in the rear.

[DirtyComanche]

See, this is what happens when one reads too much, but not enough. All the squat/anti squat stuff on the street stems directly from TJs, linked in the REAR with long arms. It is then exajerated by the unloading of the front. You will NOT have these issues with just a long arm in the front and leaves in the rear.

 

 

Uh, no.

 

 

I ran them. I had the issues. I know guys with XJs who ran them. Had the same issues... I've seen them on toyotas - same issues. And a suzuki that was downright scary between the radius arm front and the 4-link rear, and the 4-link was only partially at fault.

 

 

I'm saying they're live-able, even quite decent for most, but not in any way ideal. For the time/money invested they work well, but there is better options.

 

 

In the rear radius arms are just stupid. Massive flex steer and horrible squat.

[89eliminator]

what about making lower arms that connect into the tranny crossmember and leaving the uppers.

[Pete M]

I don't know all the ins and outs of suspension design, but I do know that the tranny crossmember wasn't designed to take the forces of lower control arms.

[jslamerman]

I still disagree. There is alot to suspension design, and I am by no means an expert, but the type of behavior you are speaking of NORMALLY is the cause of the direction of engine torque (relatitve to the direction the engine, and driveshafts turn) applied to an axle that is softly sprung, in the rear (we normally run around on the street in 2wd). Its really bad on the street in a high traction stiuation, and is also worse when a spool/welded/automatic locker is installed in the rear. Youll find that street manners are CONSIDERABLY better when running around open (or something like an OX or ARB is installed so its open on the street). A properly sprung leaf sprung setup in the rear counteracts alot of these characteristics. Yes, Ive even had this behavior on my leaf sprung Yota (ALL LEAF SPRINGS, ALL 4 CORNERS), and it was because it was so softly sprung, and had a Detroit in it. I just feel this thread is taking a technically incorrect turn. The behavior you all are discussing is attributed to more by soft springs and high, postivie traction by both rear wheels on pavement. Sorry...........

 

FYI: An installed swaybar in the front will help considerably on the street as well.

[DirtyComanche]

I'll get back to you on this.

 

 

 

This is why normally I don't say anything about radius arms, or much about any suspension. :roll: