starkizer Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 I got everything out of my axle today. So my plan is to go to the yard tomorrow and find an Axle. Thats plan A. Plan B would be to grab the innards of another 35. Swapping out the Axle, I'm gonna have to figure out how to lift the truck. I think if thats my only problem I should be ok. So I figured out what happend. There was only 1 bolt holding on the ring gear. Just 1! All other bolts where wither missing all together or the heads had broken off. Well, broken off heads and missing bolts spinning around inside your differential apperantly has a tendency to shred the other gears. Who'd a thunk it? I will be posting pics in my build thred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 You can't just swap out the insides of the axle. Gears need to be set up properly when installed, and gears from another axle will not be correctly set if put in a different housing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 I know that I can't just slap in new gears, but I had hoped that I would either find a new axle, or I would find the same axle I already have and use the insides of it. So, of course I want the new Dana 44, but if I can't find one, are you saying that I can NOT put in new gears? By the way, my build thread is updated with pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backdraft Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I think he's specifically referring to the ring and pinion and not necessarily the spider gears. I'm not aware that the spiders need anything other that swapping. As for a D44 in a junkyard....well, its possible, but don't get your hopes up finding one. You're best bet would be the 8.25 XJ rear axle for an all around better replacement. As stated, the spring perches will need to be cut off and rewelded for your application. Expect the lions share of the XJ 8.25s to have 3.55 gears in them as most will be 4.0/AW4 equipped. If you want an axle that's simply a bolt in, any MJ rear axle will suffice, but note that the gearing may not match your front axle and will result in detonation of your transfer case while in four wheel drive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 Well, I know you can buy new ring and pinion gears and the bearings and crush sleaves and all that stuff new. As for the axle, I am still kind of hoping that I come across another MJ or a cherokee that just happens to have 3.08 gears and I will simply take the insides out and NOT have to weld anything or rip apart anything more then I have to. I am still hoping that I can have it all back together in a few hours and drive it to work Thursday. I know that its not horribly hard to swap axles, and everyone says get a bigger one. I just don't feel like I need a stronger axle as all I do is drive my truck to work. I hardly ever even seen a dirt ally way, let alone the trail, so I really have no problem with my whimpy D35. However, I agree with people here and if all I can find is another bigger axle, then I will do that to. So as you can see I am a bit torn. I don't have a welder or even air tools, so simple is better. Bottom line, I just want my baby back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 To properly set up a ring and pinion gear set takes a person who knows what they are doing and a number of specialty tools, no matter if they are new or used. Most shops charge $500-$800 to do this. Spider gears can be taken out of a junk yard axle and tossed in, ring and pinion are a whole different beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Well, I know you can buy new ring and pinion gears and the bearings and crush sleaves and all that stuff new. As for the axle, I am still kind of hoping that I come across another MJ or a cherokee that just happens to have 3.08 gears and I will simply take the insides out and NOT have to weld anything or rip apart anything more then I have to. I am still hoping that I can have it all back together in a few hours and drive it to work Thursday. I know that its not horribly hard to swap axles, and everyone says get a bigger one. I just don't feel like I need a stronger axle as all I do is drive my truck to work. I hardly ever even seen a dirt ally way, let alone the trail, so I really have no problem with my whimpy D35. However, I agree with people here and if all I can find is another bigger axle, then I will do that to. So as you can see I am a bit torn. I don't have a welder or even air tools, so simple is better. Bottom line, I just want my baby back. What's the condition of your ring gear and pinion gear? That's going to be the crtical factor. The problem is that every differential housing is different by a few thousandths of an inch, every pinion gear is different by a few thousandths, and every carrier housing is fifferent by a few thousandths. So it's not just that "new" gears have to be set up from scratch, it's ANY gear set you put in your diff housing that's not the original. Use your old gears on a new carrier (such as if you install a limited slip unit) ==> reset the gears. Change the ring gear OR the pinion gear to another used gear ==> reset the gears. If ALL you need is spider gears, you can swap those with no problem. If your ring gear and pinion gear are in good shape, you can buy a new bolt set and mount the ring gear back on the carrier. If you have to replace the ring gear, you will have to check the backlash and the engagement pattern. It might drop in with no adjusting, but you can't count on that. You posted earlier that 11 of the 12 bolts holding the ring gear to the carrier were broken off. Can you get the broken off stubs out of the carrier? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 Yes, I may have over exaggerated a bit. There is (or was) 8 bolts not 12 holding the ring gear in place. I only removed 1 actual bolt. The ring gear has 1 very small part taken out of one spot. its about the size of pea. maybe smaller. Same of the pinion gear, pea size or smaller maybe like the size of an eraser. I priced a new rear axle at the junk yard today and they want $179.00. I could not find one with anywhere near the same gear ratio, so I would have to not use the 4x4, which I really don't want to do. I am thinking that the ring and pinion gears are in good enough shape that they would be ok. I can get the bolts out of the ring gear, so it should be alright. I am hoping that it would be alright if I simply left the pinion gear alone and swaped the spiders out then I would be ok with what I have. I know that everyone says to swap axles, but I don't have a welder or anything like that so time wise I think I am better off just putting in new spiders. Of course I would change out anything else while I was there. I am big into restoration and original equipment and I really only drive my truck a few miles a day NO wheeling. So I am still just not sold on a bigger rear axle. Especially if I will end up welding new shock mounts and all that sort of thing. I am just not sold I guess. I'm very torn. I figure if I put in new spiders and the thing still doesnt work then i'll be right back where I started, you know? No big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 http://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-133043-dana-35-spider-gear-kit-1-560-94-newer.html This says 94 and newer, but it also says Dana 35, I can afford 80 bucks for sure, will this fit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 They have one listed for 94 and earlier, but no price listed. Wonder what the difference is. I'm still leaning to buy new parts, I just trust new more then used. You just don't know what you're buying when you buy from a junk yard. Honestly, I kind of like the challenge of rebuilding (or replacing) the thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 $80 seems a bit steep for something you could probably get from a CC member for a couple bucks... Even if I was willing to pay that much for freakin spiders, there's no way I would put new ones in an axle that's got damage to everything else. Something happened to that axle that cause the bolts to break, it could easily keep breaking apart and dump your $80 down the drain. Plus, I have no idea where they're getting 94+ from. The changes in the spiders/side gears would have been in 1990, when it went to a c-clip axle. I highly suggest putting up a WTB thread for non c-clip D35 spiders and just run those until you can get around to replacing your axle. Also - there's no shock mount welding on an MJ axle. The shocks mount to the spring plates. If you pick up an XJ axle, you can hack the shock mounts off and forget them, you'll just need to get MJ perches on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 I couldn't figure out the 94+ thing either.... The only reason I mention the shock mounts is because the only Scrap Yard I can find in my area has no MJ's but they do have a bunch of Cherokee's. I found a Cherokee D44 rear axle they want $180.00 bucks for. I would have already picked it up, but A: I don't have 200 bucks to drop, and B: Its no where near the same gear ratio as the front and I really don't want to never use my 4x4 or have to swap the front too. I don't know why but it never even hit me to post for just the spiders in the classified forums. I posted for the axle, and I think I even saw a guy that had the spiders for like 20 bucks... still never even hit me. DUH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Just out of curiosity.... what ratio IS that XJ 44? It seems the most common ratio for those is 3.07. A good number of us would kill to pay $180 for an XJ/MJ D44 that doesn't have 3.07. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 They have one listed for 94 and earlier, but no price listed. Wonder what the difference is. I'm still leaning to buy new parts, I just trust new more then used. You just don't know what you're buying when you buy from a junk yard. Honestly, I kind of like the challenge of rebuilding (or replacing) the thing. The difference is what I commented on a number of posts above, but the year break is not 1994. The early XJ and MJ Dana 35s did NOT use c-clips to retain the axle shafts in the assemblies, they used retaining plates at the outer ends, where the outer wheel bearing seals are located. Beginning in (I think) 1990 they changed over to a c-clip design. The c-clips snap onto the inner ends of the axle shafts, inboard of the spider gears. I'm fairly certain that makes the spiders not interchangeable. What I'm not sure of is whether you can use the c-clip spiders in a non- c-clip axle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted September 20, 2012 Author Share Posted September 20, 2012 See Eagle, I was thinking that too! I knew that the 1994 thing had to be wrong. From the research I have done you are right about it being 1990 that they switched to the C-clips. I have not yet found anything that would lead me to believe the spiders are interchangable between c-clips and not. I haven't found anything that would tell me they are not interchangeable either though. As for the gear ratio on the ones I found. I am trying to remember now whats what because I looked at like 5 of them yesterday. I THINK the only one that I would actually se the plate of was another 35 and all I could see was last digits where like .55 or something. The first number was faded and covered in gunk. There happened to be an old bottle of windex under tha cheroke but that didnt help! The 44's I found either didnt have a plate on them or I couldn't read it. If the majority of the 44's are indeed 3.07 Then I would be willing to take the risk. Especially if that is a good price. I just want to be able to use my 4x4 if I need it. And my front is 3.07. I think if thats the case I can rig something up for the shocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I know you don't want the hassle of swapping out the front axle, but the change from 3.07 to 3.55 will put a smile on your face every time you drive. :D I promise! :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 If you find a front axle within the same brake generation, it's not really even a hassle. Worst part is dealing with the torx bolts on the sway bar links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 If the majority of the 44's are indeed 3.07 Then I would be willing to take the risk. Especially if that is a good price. I just want to be able to use my 4x4 if I need it. And my front is 3.07. I think if thats the case I can rig something up for the shocks But the majority were NOT 3.07. The 3.07 came ONLY behind the 4.0L with the 5-speed. The 3.55 was used with the 4.0L and automatic, and behind the 2.5L with the base 4-speed manual. So it should be pretty easy to get an initial assessment of the ratio -- if the engine is (or was) a 4.0L, look for a clutch pedal. If it has a clutch pedal, it's probably a 3.07. If the vehicle has an automatic (4-cylinder or 6-cylinder) you can be 99.97% certain it doesn't have 3.07 gears. Shocks are not a problem in the MJ. The lower shock eye mounts to a pin on the spring plate, not to the axle. The shocks mounted to the axles in the Cherokees, but not in the Comanches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 The manuals had the 3.07 and the autos had 3.55 basicly. The front axle isn't as hard as I think and the shocks are no problem. So if I want to not mess with the front, find a standard transmission MJ. Is that standard for JUST the Dana 35 aspect ratios or is it the same for the Dana 44? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Gear ratios were based on engine/trans and had nothing to do with the axle. 4.0 + 5 speed = 3.07 4.0 + auto = 3.55 2.5 + 5 speed = 4.10 2.5 + 4 speed = 3.55 2.5 + auto = 4.10 or 4.56 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 ^^^ What Geonovast wrote. Not just a standard transmission MJ. A 4.0L (6-sylinder) standard transmission MJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 So is it strange that I ended up with 3.08 and not 3.07? OR is it just 3.07 front 3.08 rear was the normal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 3.08 and 3.07 will depend on the axle you're counting teeth on. because differentials come in all different sizes, they have different numbers of teeth on the gears. some axles will have a 3.08, others will have 3.07. just like some have a 3.54 and others 3.55. or 4.10 and 4.11. it goes on and on. designers did their best to get the numbers to be the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimoshel Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 3.08 and 3.07 will depend on the axle you're counting teeth on. because differentials come in all different sizes, they have different numbers of teeth on the gears. some axles will have a 3.08, others will have 3.07. just like some have a 3.54 and others 3.55. or 4.10 and 4.11. it goes on and on. designers did their best to get the numbers to be the same. Apparently they didn't try hard enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 The differences come more from people rounding differently, and just assuming what the axle has. A few years ago I put together a chart of all the Jeep axles, and their actual tooth counts/unrounded ratios, but I'll be damned if I can't find it now... IIRC, when it came to the HP D30, D35, 8.25, and D44, ALL the tooth counts were the same for ALL the ratios except for with the D44, it rounded to 4.09 instead of 4.10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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