Pete M Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 upon further reading, it looks like it might depend on the manufacturer of the gears too. from Precision's website: Dana 30 -- 46/13 = 3.54 Dana 35 -- 39/11 = 3.55 Dana 44 -- 46/13 = 3.54 ford 8.8 -- 39/11 = 3.55 Dana 30 -- 41/10 = 4.10 Dana 35 -- 37/9 = 4.11 Dana 44 -- 41/10 = 4.10 ford 8.8 -- 41/10 = 4.10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted September 22, 2012 Author Share Posted September 22, 2012 Man, the complications just keep adding up. It's like the manufacturers just like to add insult to injury. And just when I thought I was starting to get it too! I'm just going to hope I find a 4.0 5 speed and stick with what I have so I don't have to change the front! Thank you everyone for all the info, I have learned more about rear axles then I even knew was possible. And, this is most likely the most replies I have ever gotten on a single topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geonovast Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 The gearing differences aren't a complication. For all purposes, you can use a 4.09 axle with a 4.11 axle. 4wd isn't meant to be used on pavement, and even with perfectly matched gearing in the axle, tire diameter differences/tire pressures, and, you know, turning will cause the axles to spin at different speeds anyway. Full Time 4wd (AWD) vehicles overcome this by having a mechanism that allows the driveshafts to spin at different speeds while both being powered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinkrun Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 I know this is way to much but he does have the make offer button. Looks like it may be the same as yours?? http://www.ebay.com/...7ea8a75&vxp=mtr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 upon further reading, it looks like it might depend on the manufacturer of the gears too. from Precision's website: Dana 30 -- 46/13 = 3.54 Dana 35 -- 39/11 = 3.55 Dana 44 -- 46/13 = 3.54 ford 8.8 -- 39/11 = 3.55 Dana 30 -- 41/10 = 4.10 Dana 35 -- 37/9 = 4.11 Dana 44 -- 41/10 = 4.10 ford 8.8 -- 41/10 = 4.10 The high pinion D30 from the factory also came with 39/11. I currently have two 3.55 D30s under my vehicles and have scrapped two more after grenading the diffs. Two had 46/13 and two had 39/11. All 4 were factory Spicer gears, ranging from 1987 through 1996. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Ok so I know its been a minute since the last update I bought a new set of spiders from a CC member :) They didn't fit in my carrier :( So that was a bummer, no big deal they were cheap and I am thankfull for them anyway. So the other day I spent a good number of hours at Corpus Christi U-Pull-it Auto parts, Under a 1992 Cherokee Loredo. I happend to find one that was a manual transmission 4.0 :) No swapping the front gears for me!!!! It is geared to 3.07 (of course) I moved it around and its nice a quite, and dry so no leaking seals. Big time score in my oppinion. So my question is as follows The Cherokee rear end mounts under the leaf springs, the MJ mounts over the leaf springs, so the Cherokee rear end is going to lift my MJ about 3 inches... which is great thats cool whatever, now I got to lift the front to match :) So how to I mount the shocks? The Ubolts that hold the axle on mount through the shock mount thing for the XJ and you really can't take them off without some form of cutting or torch. The MJ shock mount thing just falls off when you take the axle off. That and the shock mounts on the MJ are both faceing the same direction and the XJ are facing oppisite directions. So will the old shocks work now that its going to be a different hight and whats the easyiest way to mount the shocks now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Going SOA adds 6" of lift. and the XJ perches are in the wrong location for an MJ. XJ perches are further apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Use an angle grinder to cut the shock mounts and spring perches off the axle, then get some perches from Mopar Perfomance or other source and have a welder buddy burn them on for a case of beer. In my case I had a local welding shop do it for $20 cash, no receipt. Don't know what it would have cost if I wanted a receipt or paid by check. Take your old axle with you as well, to measure where the perches go and with what pinion angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 So there is no way to do it without cutting and welding? Bummer. Not a major deal, just adds a little time to the project. At least I have an axle now. So will any of the mounting stuff from the MJ work on the XJ axle? I mean would that help me at all or do I just use all the XJ stuff? And since I am going to have to weld perches and mounts and such what does everyone think about SOA and all that? I am running on 235 75 15 Tires, if it ends up lifted that high will it look retarded with those tires? Or if I am wleding anyway, should I weld it all back the original way of the MJ axle and not lift it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted October 20, 2012 Author Share Posted October 20, 2012 Also, I plan on removing all the brake lines, cleaning the rust up and painting it. Is there a ready made brake line kit or anything, or do I need to buy solid lines and bend them and make new lines.... or reuse the old ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 You will reuse your MJ u bolt plate and shock mount, but use NEW ubolts. Don't reuse your old ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 The Cherokee rear end mounts under the leaf springs, the MJ mounts over the leaf springs, so the Cherokee rear end is going to lift my MJ about 3 inches... which is great thats cool whatever, now I got to lift the front to match :) So how to I mount the shocks? Slow down, Mate. You are apparently thinking that you can just bolt that XJ axle under your MJ and go. Unfortunately, it isn't that easy. The springs on the XJ are spaced differently -- laterally -- than on the MJ. To use an XJ axle in an MJ, you MUST cut off and relocate the spring perches, whether you're going spring-over or staying spring-under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted October 21, 2012 Author Share Posted October 21, 2012 So is it as simple as taking both axles to a local welder and saying hey, make this one look like that one? Please tell me I can at least do that????? I know how to weld, I wish I still had a welder! You will reuse your MJ u bolt plate and shock mount, but use NEW ubolts. Don't reuse your old ones. I already planned on buying new Ubolts and nuts, my old ones are pretty nasty and I wouldn't trust them. I think 6" is a lot of lift, so I'm thinking since I have to cut it all off and weld it back on anyway. I may as well go back to the leaf springs under the axle and not have to change the shocks around. Would it be cheaper to pay someone to weld or pay someone to set the backlash on the gears and just put all the new carrier and gears in the old axle? What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 So is it as simple as taking both axles to a local welder and saying hey, make this one look like that one? Please tell me I can at least do that????? I know how to weld, I wish I still had a welder! I already planned on buying new Ubolts and nuts, my old ones are pretty nasty and I wouldn't trust them. I think 6" is a lot of lift, so I'm thinking since I have to cut it all off and weld it back on anyway. I may as well go back to the leaf springs under the axle and not have to change the shocks around. Would it be cheaper to pay someone to weld or pay someone to set the backlash on the gears and just put all the new carrier and gears in the old axle? What do you guys think? Yes, it is as easy as telling a welder to "make this axle look exactly like that one." The stock spring perches are only welded along the outside, so it should be easy to grind the welds and pop them off intact and reusable. The XJ axle will have shock mounts welded to the tubes -- you don't need them and won't use them, so you can either grind them off or just ignore them. I think it's probably going to be a LOT cheaper to move the spring perches than to pay someone to swap the gears to the old axle. If you do the swap, at the very best you'll have used gears that are only "close" to the way they were set up from the factory. Plus -- your old axle is a mess. God only knows if one or both tubes might be slightly bent. If so, putting new gears into a bent axle is just asking for another failure. IMHO you're much better off with an axle that was set up from the factory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 So is it as simple as taking both axles to a local welder and saying hey, make this one look like that one? Please tell me I can at least do that????? Yes, and that is the best, easiest and cheapest way to go to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted October 22, 2012 Author Share Posted October 22, 2012 Alright, well I have a friend that gave me the phone number to a local welder. So what I will go buy a grinder, get the things off, take all the brake lines off get all the rust off, clean it all up and make it look pretty, then take it to him and say hey, put theses exactly where theses are. Then probably paint the thing put all the brake lines back on and slap her in. I will have him put them in the exact spot and reuse my shock plate things from the old ones, that way my shocks line up, I won't worry about lifting it or none of that. My shocks are about 5 months old too so at least I won't have to buy new ones. I should have all this done Tuesday, Wednesday at the latest. You better believe I will have pictures up on build thread. I hope that in the future someone reads all this and it helps. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 Ok guys, update time! NEW AXLE IS IN!!!! Its all welded and sanded and painted and shiny and mounted in place with new U bolts, new washers new nuts new grade 8 or above everything. All new Shoes brake hardware, adjusters, wheel clinders, everything inside brake drums. All new brake lines on the outside. All new Ujoints in the drive shaft. Fresh 75w90 Lucas gear lube and new seal. Basicly.... I have a new rear end. Now here's the kicker. I have not bled the lines or anything for the brake yet which is the plan for tomorrow. I can not for the life of me find that little bracket that mounts on the Diff cover that goes to the brake thing. I guess its supposed to give you more stoping power when the bed is loaded down or something. So my new question is.... what the heck am I gonna do If I can't find that thing?!?!?!?!?!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 you can invent your own rod, or just leave it off. the neutral position for an empty bed is with the swing arm roughly parallel with the ground. If you leave it off, you'll need to affix the swing arm so that it stays in that position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted November 7, 2012 Author Share Posted November 7, 2012 Alright, good news is... I found that little bracket thing! Hurray!!! Bad news is... I have spent hundreds of dollars buying litteraly EVERYTHING for this rear axle... mostly break parts, and out of all that I spent... I have somehow neglected to buy freakin brake fluid!!!! :doh: :wall: Man, I feel dumb! Now I gotta wait till someone comes home with a car so I can go buy fluid! AHHHH :rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 So there is no way to do it without cutting and welding? Bummer. Not a major deal, just adds a little time to the project. At least I have an axle now. So will any of the mounting stuff from the MJ work on the XJ axle? I mean would that help me at all or do I just use all the XJ stuff? And since I am going to have to weld perches and mounts and such what does everyone think about SOA and all that? I am running on 235 75 15 Tires, if it ends up lifted that high will it look retarded with those tires? Or if I am wleding anyway, should I weld it all back the original way of the MJ axle and not lift it? A SOA conversion will lift your chassis between 5-1/2" and 6-1/2". Yes, with stock tires (or even 30s or 31s) it will look totally retarded. Plus then you'll be looking for stuff to lift the front to even it out, and you'll be throwing some real money at it because a 6" lift results in all sorts of issues that need to be addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 OK a new issue!!! Everything is in, got the brakes bled. all is fine...... Something that I never touched is now giving me trouble. There is a massive leak in the brake lines somewhere above the gas tank. Is there a fitting anywhere in that area or do I have a broken line or something? Any idea? I still have front brakes, but can't keep fluid in for the rear. After all that money I spent on all new everything for the rear, I can clearly see that its all dry where I worked so I know its not anything I touched. Must have broken a line I guess. Any idea what I should do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 There is a massive leak in the brake lines somewhere above the gas tank. Is there a fitting anywhere in that area or do I have a broken line or something? Any idea? I still have front brakes, but can't keep fluid in for the rear. After all that money I spent on all new everything for the rear, I can clearly see that its all dry where I worked so I know its not anything I touched. Must have broken a line I guess. Any idea what I should do? Yep. Buy a 25-foot coil of brake line and some fittings, and make up all new lines to the rear. IMHO, this is the time to eliminate the rear height-sensing valve, which also eliminates one of the two lines to the rear, but some people don't agree with me when I describe it as a ticking time bomb. Your choice. The brake lines are one piece, front to rear. You can cut out the bad section and use couplings to insert a short length. I did that on my '88 Cherokee, then while bleeding after the repair the remaining existing line blew out 6 inches ahead of my new section. However, I will admit that snaking a full-length line into place is a PITA, and there are advantages from an installation perspective to using pre-cut lengths to make up the new run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 I use precut sections that are already flared and have the fittings on them for two reasons: 1 - as you say, snaking 17' or brake line from the axle to the master cylinder is a real pain, especially if you don't have a lift. 2 - hard as I try, I only succeed about 50% of the time at making a correct double flare on the end of a piece of brake line. To the OP: how do the brake lines look? You have to at least replace the rusted through section, but usually that means the rest of the brake line is also in pretty bad shape meaning you replace it all from the master cylinder down to the rear hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starkizer Posted November 8, 2012 Author Share Posted November 8, 2012 Well, from what I can actually see. It all looks fine. Theres no rust anywhere. I can't even see where its damaged because of the gas tank being in the way. For all I know it just broke from me working on the end where I worked. Maybe I twisted it or something? So I need 17' of line at least? I work at O'reilly Auto Parts now so I can come by individual sections of hose pretty easy. It goes from the master cylinder all the way to the fittings on the rear? I found that stupid thing for the load adjusting bed sensor or whatever the heck it is. I would like to keep it simply for original parts (I'm a restoration guy) Can anyone send me a pic of theres so I know I put it back on right? So, 17'-20' of new line that I will buy in sections and part them all together. That way its all new and easier to snake through everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted November 8, 2012 Share Posted November 8, 2012 there's no need to try and follow the original lines. that'll drive you nuts. just be sure that they are up out of the way from harm. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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