Pros and Cons of J-Trucks

[Zenobian_84]

I'm fine with the 'Manche for a while, but I do plan on getting a mid 70's-80's J10 someday. My GF is infatuated with my friend's '66 C10 :nuts: :shake: and whenever he brings the old girl around everyone always laughs when he parks it next to my truck. It looks like the thing is going to eat my '87. :roll: Not only that, but everyone jests at the fact that my truck is being powered by the 2.5, instead of the 4.0. Which, I just laugh at them and tell them that my great mileage warrants keeping the 4, instead of swapping to a 6.

 

Back on track though, I know there's probably a few guys on here that have owned a J-Truck or two. I just wanted some opinions and input on them. I'd probably have better luck on the FSJ forum, but I figured I might as well ask here. :cheers:

 

1. What was the pricing way back in the day for a bare bones J10? I always wondered about that.

 

2. Are there specific years I look for when I pick one of these up? IE: X Year had better engine layouts than X year; or X year had less chance of frame rot than X year. Obviously the last year for the J-Truck series (87) would be my preferred due to rarity. But I highly doubt I'll find an '87 J10.

 

3. What's the preferred engine in these/why? Everyone always boasts about the 360 and the 401 :drool: but always seems to dismiss the 258; mainly because most people w/ a 258 complain about it being a gutless engine w/ no power. My dad and mom used to have an Rambler back the mid 80's and my dad always felt the 258 was an unstoppable engine. IMHO, I would love to have the 258, just for the fact I could swap over to a 242.

 

4. Preferred transmission/why? I've read stories on most of the different offered transmissions for these things and I've heard good and bad, pricey and not-so-pricey (when it comes to replacement parts/overhauls)

 

5. 4x4? Pros and Cons of transfercases? I'd like to have a 4 wheel drive vehicle someday, if for just occasional off-road use and maybe for emergency puposes; but what 4x4 system should I look for? Likewise, what transfercases are good choices, and which ones aren't?

 

6.Where are the worst spots on the truck for rust? I've heard that rust is predominate on the bed; just like most everyone has run around like Fred Flinstone at some point with the MJ's on this site.

 

7. What's the best piece of advice you could give someone wanting one of these? Other than you better have some deep pockets and a lot of patience.... Now where have I heard that one before?

[jimoshel]

Jeep P/U'S I have owned, other than MJ, that I can remember now.

1947 3/4 134, 3 sp, 4WD

1951 1/2 230, 3 sp, 4WD

1954 1/2 6cyl, 2WD

1960 ?

1964 Gladiator 1/2, 327,4 sp, 4WD

1970 J10. This is the only Jeep I ever bought new from the dealer, Buick 350, 4speed, 4WD, 1/2 ton, Forest Green. $4200 and in my personal opinion the best Truck Jeep ever made. That 350 was unstoppable.

2-FC150, 4 cyl

1 FC170, don't remember the years on those.

1976 1/2, 360, 4sp

1983 J10 360, auto, 4WD

I currently have a 1975 3/4 that I have a snow plow mounted on and a 1977 3/4 that i use for towing heavy trailers with. Both have the 360, 4 speed, 4WD.

I'm sure I missed a couple but that's what I remember.

This is a personal opinion but if I were to go looking for a Jeep truck now I would look for a 68-70 J10 with the Buick 350, 4 sp and 4WD. I would not rule out any year, model if it had a straight, rust free body, irregardless of the drive train.

[Boots]

When my dad and I were still looking for a good mj for my first car, he found a J-truck (don't remember which one) with a 401. He reeeaaalllyyy wanted me to get it but I wasn't convinced. Now I reeeaaaallllyyyy wish I had.

 

My dad's CJ-5 has the 258 in it, he said that it wasn't anything special. Until he put the Mopar fuel injection on it. He also had it rebuilt and threw a cam in it, it definitely has more power than my mj.

[dasbulliwagen]

I didnt have a J truck, but I did have a Grand Wagoneer. It had the 258 in it, and was all I needed. It would go through anything you asked it to with its torque, especially in low range. The biggest issue with my 258 was the carb, which I switched to a more reliable Holley/Weber 2 BBL kit. Other than leaking oil it ran perfectly. It did have frame rot issues, and its Selec-trac NP228 transfer case blew up on me, but I don't think that case was available on the trucks. Good luck with your search though. My dream truck is an M715! So you get a J truck and let us live vicariously through you!

[jpnjim]

For the most part,

the newer the better:

 

1974+ has improved (Wag style) ft suspension (2.5" wide leaf SUA vs earlier 2" wide SOA)

1974+ has disc brakes (atleast optional)

1976+ has better boxed frame

1980+ has drivers side ft diff

 

 

Exceptions to newer = better:

 

1979 last year of TH400 trans & 1/2 ton T18 4spd's (stronger)

1980+ = Chrysler 3spd auto's & T176 4spd's (I *think* 1980+ J20's still got T18's)

1979 = last year of built in cab visor

1979 = last year of pass side diff

1978 = last year of 401/4bbl

1974 = first year of FSJ 401/4bb

1973 = last year of 5 lug axles (74+ J10=6lug J20=8lug)

[Zenobian_84]

Awesome guys. :cheers: :bowdown: Thanks for the stories, info, and support. Makes me want to go scour craigslist til' I find a good one to start my own story from.

[whowey]

One of the things you have to be prepared for is that everyone has a FSJ story. And you will get to hear each and everyone of them. Whenever I drive my Waggy anywhere, I get stopped by someone. I won't drive it to the store for a quick gallon of milk or loaf of bread, 'cause I will get stopped by someone.

[carnuck]

1. What was the pricing way back in the day for a bare bones J10? I always wondered about that.

 

A: Never looked into it as I couldn't afford one back then. I drove $50 and $100 used cars a lot.

 

2. Are there specific years I look for when I pick one of these up? IE: X Year had better engine layouts than X year; or X year had less chance of frame rot than X year. Obviously the last year for the J-Truck series (87) would be my preferred due to rarity. But I highly doubt I'll find an '87 J10.

 

A: '88 is the last year of J20 production (I know of several) I like '80 and newer for the LH drop front setup, which made swapping the 258 for a 4.0L much easier. The trucks don't see as much frame rot unless used in the high salt areas.

 

3. What's the preferred engine in these/why? Everyone always boasts about the 360 and the 401 :drool: but always seems to dismiss the 258; mainly because most people w/ a 258 complain about it being a gutless engine w/ no power. My dad and mom used to have an Rambler back the mid 80's and my dad always felt the 258 was an unstoppable engine. IMHO, I would love to have the 258, just for the fact I could swap over to a 242.

 

A: I like the 258 (for 4.0L swap later) or 304/290 (V8 power but still economical enough to drive daily)

 

4. Preferred transmission/why? I've read stories on most of the different offered transmissions for these things and I've heard good and bad, pricey and not-so-pricey (when it comes to replacement parts/overhauls)

 

A: Stock, 727 for auto (9xx series is weaker unle$$ beefed up) and T18 for stick. Too bad the T5 used '80-'83 was weaker than the AX-15. I don't dislike the TH400, but QT and factory D20 weren't the best options (weak adapters for serious off-roading)

 

5. 4x4? Pros and Cons of transfercases? I'd like to have a 4 wheel drive vehicle someday, if for just occasional off-road use and maybe for emergency puposes; but what 4x4 system should I look for? Likewise, what transfercases are good choices, and which ones aren't?

 

A: QT eats chains if you seriously wheel. NP208 is good, but the chain can skip in them too (it just doesn't usually stop your forward momentum like the QT chain does) NP228, 229 and 219 are okay for road rigs. The factory TH400-D20 adapter breaks VERY easily due to a defect in the castings.

 

6.Where are the worst spots on the truck for rust? I've heard that rust is predominate on the bed; just like most everyone has run around like Fred Flinstone at some point with the MJ's on this site.

 

A: Full frame so rust isn't as much an issue as with an MJ.

 

7. What's the best piece of advice you could give someone wanting one of these? Other than you better have some deep pockets and a lot of patience.... Now where have I heard that one before?

 

A: Find the best body you can to start with.

[carnuck]

quote="jpnjim"

For the most part,

the newer the better:

 

1974+ has improved (Wag style) ft suspension (2.5" wide leaf SUA vs earlier 2" wide SOA)

 

A: AND open knuckle diffs for narrower turning circle! I think the Wags got the open knuckle sooner than '74, but still with 5 lug front drums. The Jtrucks were closed till '74 (I had a '73 J4000, '72 J2000, '68 J300, '66 J100, '75 J20, '76, '77, '78, '80, '82, '83 and '84 J10s plus various Wagoneers, Grand Wagoneers and FSJ Cherokees)

 

1974+ has disc brakes (at least optional)

1976+ has better boxed frame

 

A: The front of the frame around the steering box was beefed up. The rest looks to be the same. I put a '77 J20 D60 rear in my '73 J4000. Bolted right in and I flipped the shackles so shortening the rear shaft wasn't needed.

 

1980+ has drivers side ft diff

 

A: and centered rear diff

 

 

Exceptions to newer = better:

 

1979 last year of TH400 trans & 1/2 ton T18 4spd's (stronger)

 

A: T18A/NP208F was still available till '85 in Honchos and J20s. It was a Ford T18 (shorter than previous Jeep ones) with adapted Jeep bell.

 

1980+ = Chrysler 3spd auto's & T176 4spd's (I *think* 1980+ J20's still got T18's)

 

A: 6 cyls mostly got the 999 (weak converter necks) and the 727 was set up for mushy car-like shifting with poor cooling.

 

1979 = last year of built in cab visor

 

A: '82, like my Honcho

 

1979 = last year of pass side diff

1978 = last year of 401/4bbl

1974 = first year of FSJ 401/4bb

 

A: Supposedly the 401 ONLY came with TH400 and no factory 4 speeds were made. IH also used the AMC 401 around '74, but only with a 2300 2 bbl carb.

 

1973 = last year of 5 lug axles (74+ J10=6lug J20=8lug)

 

A: Getting rid of front drum and closed knuckle wasn't a bad thing. Some J4000's prior to '74 got the 8 lug and some even came with dual wheels.

[jpnjim]

quote="jpnjim"

For the most part,

the newer the better:

 

1974+ has improved (Wag style) ft suspension (2.5" wide leaf SUA vs earlier 2" wide SOA)

 

A: AND open knuckle diffs for narrower turning circle! I think the Wags got the open knuckle sooner than '74, but still with 5 lug front drums. The Jtrucks were closed till '74 (I had a '73 J4000, '72 J2000, '68 J300, '66 J100, '75 J20, '76, '77, '78, '80, '82, '83 and '84 J10s plus various Wagoneers, Grand Wagoneers and FSJ Cherokees)

 

1974+ has disc brakes (at least optional)

1976+ has better boxed frame

 

A: The front of the frame around the steering box was beefed up. The rest looks to be the same. I put a '77 J20 D60 rear in my '73 J4000. Bolted right in and I flipped the shackles so shortening the rear shaft wasn't needed.

 

1980+ has drivers side ft diff

 

A: and centered rear diff

 

 

Exceptions to newer = better:

 

1979 last year of TH400 trans & 1/2 ton T18 4spd's (stronger)

 

A: T18A/NP208F was still available till '85 in Honchos and J20s. It was a Ford T18 (shorter than previous Jeep ones) with adapted Jeep bell.

 

1980+ = Chrysler 3spd auto's & T176 4spd's (I *think* 1980+ J20's still got T18's)

 

A: 6 cyls mostly got the 999 (weak converter necks) and the 727 was set up for mushy car-like shifting with poor cooling.

 

1979 = last year of built in cab visor

 

A: '82, like my Honcho

 

1979 = last year of pass side diff

1978 = last year of 401/4bbl

1974 = first year of FSJ 401/4bb

 

A: Supposedly the 401 ONLY came with TH400 and no factory 4 speeds were made. IH also used the AMC 401 around '74, but only with a 2300 2 bbl carb.

 

1973 = last year of 5 lug axles (74+ J10=6lug J20=8lug)

 

A: Getting rid of front drum and closed knuckle wasn't a bad thing. Some J4000's prior to '74 got the 8 lug and some even came with dual wheels.

 

Yeah, I forgot about the closed knuckles,

great point.

Worst part of my 73 J4000 (J4600) was the closed knuckle ft axle.

Turning radius was not so great.

 

Good setup otherwise,

P code 360/4bbl Granny T-18/D-20 5 lug 35sp SF D60 rear w/4.10's.

I should've taken more pics

 

Tons of Grand Waggy's were in the junkyard when I had it,

swapped in GW doors (with the 90* opening J truck hinges), power leather seats, under dash air vents (no AC tho),

Rhino Chaser grille, late model plastic tank, etc etc.

Only bad part was last foot of frame was badly rusted,

So I chopped it off, and had a 7' bed with the 132" wheelbase.

[Incommando]

The Th400's in the late '70s were only coupled with the (IMHO) fairly craptastic quadratrac. For the quadratrac years ('74-'79?) the quadratrac rear axle diff had a serious off-set to the pass side and the manual trucks still had an off-set even though the D20 used a centered output. They used a funky early version of a cv-type joint to correct this.

 

The 727 is a dandy auto, too.

 

Some post-'80 J-trucks got the T177/178, which is a much better tranny than the T5.

 

The T18a tranny is darn near bullet proof and the 6.32:1 first gear gives you a great crawl ratio even with mild axle gears. The Dana 20 transfer case is a real workhorse when coupled to the T18a.

 

'80 through '85 (ish) gets you an AMC Model 23 rear axle that corrects almost all of the problems with the spotty CJ Model 20 axle.

 

Axle ratios for '80 and newer were seriously crappy with 2.71's being very common and 3.21 being the best you could hope for most years. Coupled with a smog controlled engine they were pretty underwhelming performance-wise in stock trim.

 

These things are rust bombs. I have owned numerous FSJ's and that was true for all of them. Floorboards and cab corners as well as beds. This is probably worse in some areas than others. Rusted frames are an issue in the rear under the bed.

 

J20's used a thicker-walled front Dana 44 axle with 8 lugs and a D60 rear. Earlier heavy trucks had different options including a semi-float 5 lug D60 rear.

 

My preference? A late 70's J20 with a 360/T18a/D20 drivetrain. I had a '79 Cherokee Chief with this combo and loved it. It is basically the same vehicle as a J10. I also had an '80 N/T 2dr Cherokee with a 360/178/208 drivetrain that was a decent piece.

[jpnjim]

Axle ratios for '80 and newer were seriously crappy with 2.71's being very common and 3.21 being the best you could hope for most years. Coupled with a smog controlled engine they were pretty underwhelming performance-wise in stock trim.

 

J10 & Waggy had horrible gears ratios, to try to meet gas mileage standards :ack:

1980's CJ's got hammered by the same backward thinking.

 

Luckily,

J20's with their higher GVWR didn't fall under those standards,

so their D44/D60's got 3.73's right till the bitter end. :chillin:

[Comanche County]

I see no cons to a J-series truck whatsoever, its a truck and it says "Jeep" on it. :D

[Incommando]

Except of course for when your ammeter gauge wires fry and melt your truck :yes:

 

Anyone with an older FSJ should search out the ammeter bypass mod for them and complete it

[carnuck]

Ammeters have indeed caused a LOT of Car-B-Ques due to their tendency to corrode the anode terminal.

[Zenobian_84]

Jesus, didn't know there was so much to be learnt here. Lol. Definitely know a lot more now than I did 15 minutes ago. :cheers:

 

So I can say it's safe to assume that only the J20 series got the rear D60 if equipped; and most J10's came with either a AMC 20 or D44 rear end? Since the 20 was the larger, heavier, and more powerful truck; depending on the setup; and vice versa.

 

-EDIT-

If this was already answered with the super posts detailing everything, apologies; I just want to make sure I have my facts straight.

[Jeep Sarge]

Jesus, didn't know there was so much to be learnt here. Lol. Definitely know a lot more now than I did 15 minutes ago. :cheers:

 

So I can say it's safe to assume that only the J20 series got the rear D60 if equipped; and most J10's came with either a AMC 20 or D44 rear end? Since the 20 was the larger, heavier, and more powerful truck; depending on the setup; and vice versa.

 

-EDIT-

If this was already answered with the super posts detailing everything, apologies; I just want to make sure I have my facts straight.

 

 

** All J20's are long bed if that matters **

[jpnjim]

Jesus, didn't know there was so much to be learnt here. Lol. Definitely know a lot more now than I did 15 minutes ago. :cheers:

 

So I can say it's safe to assume that only the J20 series got the rear D60 if equipped; and most J10's came with either a AMC 20 or D44 rear end? Since the 20 was the larger, heavier, and more powerful truck; depending on the setup; and vice versa.

 

-EDIT-

If this was already answered with the super posts detailing everything, apologies; I just want to make sure I have my facts straight.

As far as J10 J20 goes, yes

J10 = d44 or m20

J20 = d60.

Earlier stuff is a little more confusing, since the designations were different.

J300 J3000 J4000, etc.

So change that to 1/2 ton 3/4 ton, and it's (mostly) correct.

DRW d70's being one exception in the early trucks.

[carnuck]

Actually, just to confuse things a bit more: Pre '74 J4000s could come with the 8 lug full float package single or dual rear wheel (some with factory motorhome chassis too) OR they could come with a D60-2 or D53. The last 2 are single rear wheel bearing (per side) with 5 on 5.5" bolt pattern. The center section stuff is sort of interchangeable between them, but axle bearing$ are ob$oletum unobtainium. If the rear diff cover bolts have 9/16" heads, then it's one of the 2.

M715 came with closed knuckle D60 front and D70 rear with an odd military bolt pattern wheel.

[Zenobian_84]

Actually, just to confuse things a bit more: Pre '74 J4000s could come with the 8 lug full float package single or dual rear wheel (some with factory motorhome chassis too) OR they could come with a D60-2 or D53. The last 2 are single rear wheel bearing (per side) with 5 on 5.5" bolt pattern. The center section stuff is sort of interchangeable between them, but axle bearing$ are ob$oletum unobtainium. If the rear diff cover bolts have 9/16" heads, then it's one of the 2.

M715 came with closed knuckle D60 front and D70 rear with an odd military bolt pattern wheel.

Interesting.... :brows: :thumbsup: :hijack: Ah... the M715. Now that's a real truck. Another personal favorite of mine. :cheers:

[jpnjim]

Actually, just to confuse things a bit more: Pre '74 J4000s could come with the 8 lug full float package single or dual rear wheel (some with factory motorhome chassis too) OR they could come with a D60-2 or D53. The last 2 are single rear wheel bearing (per side) with 5 on 5.5" bolt pattern. The center section stuff is sort of interchangeable between them, but axle bearing$ are ob$oletum unobtainium. If the rear diff cover bolts have 9/16" heads, then it's one of the 2.

M715 came with closed knuckle D60 front and D70 rear with an odd military bolt pattern wheel.

That's why I put 'mostly' in my statement before 'correct'

:yes:

people complain that AMC was behind the times when it came to standardization

(eg: 84-86 AMC XJ's vs 88+ XJ's).

Kaiser was far worse than AMC.:yes:

(eg: 64-70 Kaiser FSJ vs 74+ FSJ's)

 

Atleast AMC started straightening out/standardizing the XJ line in 87 before Chrysler took over

 

Kaiser had experimented with so much in the FSJ line:

AMC 6's, Continental 6's, ohc sixes, gen 1 AMC v8's, Buick v8's, IFS, every kind of Dana axle, thrift side beds, fleet side beds, flat beds, tow trucks, fire trucks, military trucks, utility bodies, sedan deliveries, and everything else under the sun,

it took AMC till 74' to whittle it down to just 4 vehicles

(J10,J20, Waggy & Cherokee).

 

There's exceptions to the exceptions when it comes to Kaiser & early AMC FSJ's :ack:

[Incommando]

You could get an IFS Wagoneer that used a Dana 27 center chunk in '63-'64, IIRC. WAY ahead of its time.

[carnuck]

 

I think it's a D44 or D30

[jpnjim]

You could get an IFS Wagoneer that used a Dana 27 center chunk in '63-'64, IIRC. WAY ahead of its time.

IFS 4x4

OHC

Automatic Trans

In Dash A/C (even the later FSJ's had external under dash A/C)

Power Windows

etc etc

in a 'Truck'

 

FSJ's were cutting edge in the 1960's,

with features the big 3 hadn't even dreamed of yet.

 

The competition had nothing even close to the 1960's "Super Wagoneer" till the 1980's.

 

 

Jeep did it again in compacts in the 1980's when it offered 173HP and 4doors.

Miles & years ahead of the competition.

 

Too bad they abandoned trucks 20+ years ago,

and are now only interested in selling a lifestyle,

neatly packaged into streamlined cost conscious bellybutton look alike "Jeeps" on car platforms.

[jpnjim]

Too bad they abandoned trucks 20+ years ago,

and are now only interested in selling a lifestyle,

neatly packaged into streamlined cost conscious bellybutton look alike "Jeeps" on car platforms.

 

Before anyone takes offense,

Jeep went from a Truck maker,

to a SUV maker,

to a Crossover maker,

with a 1/4 ton universal thrown in to 'keep it real'.

 

And even that 1/4 ton universal would be gone if they could sell the 'rugged outdoors lifestyle' without it.

 

 

/rant :thumbsup: