Need some help with RMS in the Camdenton, MO area.

[Geonovast]

I'm in the Camdenton, MO area and I seem to be forced to replace the RMS in the XJ before we go back on labor day. I've never done the procedure with the motor in the truck, and I have a few questions/concerns..

 

Anyone happen to know the main bearing cap bolthead size and torque spec?

 

I don't know yet if I have access to a torque wrench.

 

Are there any tricks to getting the top piece of the seal out other than loosening several of the bearing caps?

 

If anyone's in the area, I could definitely use a hand too!

[Wildman]

Having broken down on the road before myself........... :fs1:

 

Your best bet is to find a small "local" shop that can do the job, has the tools and equipment and have you out in a couple hours, Done.

 

You need to get the oil pan off, and some times you need to drop the axle all the way down, or even jack up the engine, at worst, remove the oil pump to get the pan to clear off.

 

And a lift is the best item to get the truck on, so the above can be done. I don't think you'll like crawling under the truck on stands, with all the oil dripping down on you.

 

You only need to remove the rear main cap to get the RMS out. The upper section slides out. I don't know the cap bolt size off hand, but the main cap bolts are torque to 80 ft lbs.

[Geonovast]

Well luckily I'm not stuck on the side of the road, I'm at my girlfriend's mom's house. I bring a fair amount of tools with me when we make this trip. I wish I could pay a small shop to do it for me, but I really can't afford that.

 

I am going to hose down the bottom of the truck before I start, I know it won't do much, but it's gotta help some.

[aemsee]

Depending upon how high you can get the vehicle off the ground using jack stands you will most likely need to drop the steering shaft at the gear box and the track bar ( easier, I think, at the axle end). You will want the stands under the frame so that the axle can hang as much as possible. Remove the bellhousing inspection cover as well.

 

Do you know if the pan has been off before and the up graded gasket installed? If so, this will make your life, and that of those you love, much easier and happier. The original gasket will be miserable to remove.

 

The main cap bolts are at least 3/4, maybe bigger. Being a 88 at least you won't need to deal with the stiffener plate. You MUST use a torque wrench. Getting it wrong would be catastrophic. You do not need to loosen any other main caps for the seal. With the cap off, use something blunt to move the RMS around the crank enough to grab it with some good pliers and roll it the rest of the way out. Make sure you do not use something that will score the crank surface. A small brass punch is best, but I don't know if you have one of those. Make sure you lightly oil the new RMS before installation, and make sure it is facing the right way. The lower is idiot proof, but the upper isn't (not implying you are an idiot. I have seen seasoned techs do this with 4.0 motors). Start the upper and try to push it around the crank and in. Sometimes you need to have someone turn the engine over by hand as you push on the seal. If you do this, be aware that you may have the upper bearing shell roll out if you turn it the wrong way. If you look at the bearing shell, there is a small lock/ locating tab keeping it from spinning. Start the seal on that side so if you need to turn the motor over you won't lose the bearing shell. Be fore-warned, if you roll the motor over, oil WILL come out from many places, going directly in to your eyes, nose and mouth. Safety glasses are a must here, and some cold beer is very good at getting the 40 weight taste out.

There are two different size bolts holding the pan on. either 3/8 and 7/16 or 7/16 and 1/2. Can't remember which. A deep socket set is very useful as some of the bolts have studs for heads. Remember to mark your pan as to where these go as they retain trans cooler line bracket etc. If the pan is stuck on, try smacking the side of it with a large plastic or rubber hammer. The lips bend very easy. Get yourself some sort of adhesive to hold the new gasket in place as well. Try to get the one piece if you can. Much better gasket.

:cheers:

[Geonovast]

Thanks aemsee, a lot of good info there.

 

The torque was my biggest concern. I knew I had to have that cap torqued right, or the motor would likely blow on my on my way back.

 

I do not know if the gasket's been replaced before. I'm hoping it's not the original gasket, but something tells me I'm not that lucky. I refuse to put a cork gasket on. I'll drive the hour to autozone if O'reilys doesn't have the rubber one. I did bring RTV with me, so that's good to go. And I know I have deepwell 7/16s, and 1/2 sockets with me. I'll have to check, don't think I brought the 3/8s. I'm also 99% sure I grabbed my 1/2 drive 3/4 socket.

 

If I have to turn the motor to get the new seal in, I'll probably just crawl out and turn it around a couple times to relieve all the pressure before I go back under. I'm hoping it'll go right in.

[Pete M]

Let the motor sit overnight before pulling the pan. And even then you should expect drips, lots and lots of them. ear plugs are suggested. :thumbsup:

 

And be sure to buy 2 of the RMSs when you go to the store. It's surprisingly easy to injure them during installation. :( I squirted a small bit of grease up in the upper half's hole before installation and it seemed to help out.

 

 

Let the silicone cure before you fire up the Jeep. :D

[87ComancheLB]

Here's a link I bookmarked for future reference.

http://gojeep.willyshotrod.com/HowtoRearMain.htm

[Geonovast]

Let the motor sit overnight before pulling the pan. And even then you should expect drips, lots and lots of them. ear plugs are suggested. :thumbsup:

 

Truck's been sitting since Friday night. We've been driving around in the GF's Mom's car.

 

And be sure to buy 2 of the RMSs when you go to the store. It's surprisingly easy to injure them during installation. :( I squirted a small bit of grease up in the upper half's hole before installation and it seemed to help out.

 

That would be ideal... but I'm extremely limited on funds.

 

 

Let the silicone cure before you fire up the Jeep. :D

 

That's just for the pan, right? The parts store has the upgraded gasket, and I couldn't remember if I needed RTV on that or not.

 

Here's a link I bookmarked for future reference.

http://gojeep.willyshotrod.com/HowtoRearMain.htm

 

That site mentions soap.. really?

[Pete M]

Soap would also work to help install the new seal. It's a tight fit.

[500 MJ]

Correy, I've done what you are attempting to do on the old '92 4.0 HO XJ of mine. If you need some help don't hesitate to call.

 

I remember the top of the old seal being a bear to get out. I had to beat and beat and beat on it before it started to move around the crank. I highly suggest getting a brass punch for this step.

 

My XJ was lifted 2 inches when I did this and I was able to finnagle the oil pan out with a bit of time after I had jacked the Jeep up. Might not hurt to have a small bottle jack so you can jack the axle away from the body once you have the body sitting on jack-stands... Disconnecting the shocks will give you more room too. Break the bolts on the axle end of the shocks, they are easy to get at and replace.

 

I greased the seal up really good when I put it back in and it seemed to work well. Once you get it half way in it gets easier and easier to push the rest of the way around. Grease is your friend...

 

GOOD LUCK!

[Geonovast]

I picked up the gaskets today... but freakin nobody around here has anything brass. Punches or scrapers.

 

I'm also having trouble tracking down a torque wrench. I really don't want to drive almost an hour just to "borrow" one.

 

I should know by tomorrow if one of the neighbors has one.

[Pete M]

I used a steel punch. Just be very careful. :thumbsup:

[Eagle]

I picked up the gaskets today... but freakin nobody around here has anything brass. Punches or scrapers.

Sure they do. Lowe's or Home Depot. In the back of the fastener aisle in the Hardware department they have a rack of steel and aluminum tubing, angles, rods, and stuff. They should have a few pieces of brass rod. Buy a 2-foot length of 1/8" rod, cut it into a 4" length and a 6-inch leg, clean the burrs off where you cut it, and get to work. If they have 3/32" rod, get a hunk of that, too.

[87Warrior]

I may be headed towards Pittsburg, KS in a few days. Looks like you are about 2 hours out of the way. If you really need a hand, I could make it a two day trip. Not that I know what the heck I am doing, never done a RMS before.

 

Good luck none the less :cheers:

[Geonovast]

I appreciate the offer, but I'm hoping to tear into it as soon as I get ahold of a torque wrench.

 

If you were coming out on Friday and I'm still having problems with it, and you don't mind the drive, I'd certainly welcome some help.

[Geonovast]

Well I wasn't able to borrow one, so this afternoon I just ran into O'reilly's again and bought one. Surprisingly cheaper than I'd thought they would be, so I got the clicker one instead of the twin bar one.

 

 

So, I'm lunging into it tomorrow. Hopefully I won't run into any problems...

[Pete M]

It's a useful tool to have. :thumbsup:

[Akula69]

I have done what you are gonna do, and it seems much more daunting then it really is.

 

First - lay a couple of pieces of old cardboard box on the ground or floor to catch the drips (and if it gets really oily you can turn it over for a new, clean surface to lay on).

 

As you take the pan bolts out, remember where they were. I used a cardboard box with a rough drawing of the pan on it to remember what bolts came from where....this is especially important when you get around the front of the engine, as the bolt hole depths in the block are not all the same.

 

I had to really work to get the oil pan out from around the axle...eventually I realized I could jack up slightly on the transmission and is would give me the last 1/2 inch I needed to get the pan out.

 

I used a steel punch to snake the top of the seal out, and had to loosen the last three caps as well as remove the last one. If you are careful and don't nick the crank the stiff wire in the top part of the seal will stand up to a suprising amount of taps from the punch when struck with a plastic mallet.

 

I did use motor oil on the front lip of the top seal, and liquid soap on the back. MAKE SURE the damn thing is facing the right way the first time....and don't forget to torque the caps back to 80 ft lbs in stages: do all at 20, then do all at 60 then again at 80. DO NOT torque them up to 80 all at once!!! Also - remember to put a dab of hi temp silcone sealer on each corner of the bottom seal after you carefully insert it in the cap.

 

Good luck!

[Geonovast]

Ugh, this is becoming difficult.

 

Took me forever to get the pan out, had to disconnect the oil pump, shocks, steering, sway bar, and track bar. I did luck out though... the pan at least has been off before, it had a one piece rubber gasket. I'm still replacing it, but at least I won't have to scrape.

 

I cannot get the top seal out. Every time I hit the punch, it slips off the cord inside the seal, and I'm already worried I may have damaged the sealing surface inside the block.

 

Another concern is this-

 

There's two noticeable grooves in the bearing, and there's a small burr at one end. :fs1:

 

I used a steel punch to snake the top of the seal out, and had to loosen the last three caps as well as remove the last one.

 

I'm gonna give that a shot when I go back out. But I'm slowly losing daylight, I may have to continue this tomorrow morning.

[Akula69]

You may also need to softly bump on one of the crank counterweights with a RUBBER mallet after you loosen the last three caps to allow it to drop slightly. Mine only dropped about 1/32...but that was enought to allow me to move the top part of the seal.

 

Crocus cloth (emory cloth - found in the plumbing section of any hardware store) can remove the burr from the bearing....do not fool with the grooves already on the bearing surface...clean bearing and corresponding crank bearingway with a soft, clean cloth and then you can apply fresh oil to both surfaces for the initial startup.

[Lenard]

I'm only an hour or so away from you (google says 2 but i know i can make it just a little over an hour) if you need any tools or just another hand let me know, ive never done this before but am willing to learn and help anyway i can, i sent my number via PM

[Geonovast]

Got it done.. I hope. When installing the new seal, it started to shave a small amount off the side that seals to the block, but I think I got it patched ok with RTV. I didn't loose any material, just had a little flap. Started it up, had a strange tick for the first second, then it went away.

 

Gonna take it for a test drive in a little bit after I grab some food.

 

Many thanks to Lenard for coming out and giving me a hand. Also thanks all you guys for helpin' out on here. :cheers:

 

I'd never used a clicker torque wrench before.... :drool: :drool:

[Lenard]

not a problem, it was a good 101 class in changing that 8) let us how how it does

[Geonovast]

Took it for a test drive. Still leaks... but not nearly as bad. Should be managable on the trip home.

 

On my little test drive, however, I noticed an MJ shoved behind an auto body shop. They were closed, and I'm sure they'll be closed tomorrow... but it looks like it's been there for awhile. If it's there next time I come down.... :clapping:

[whowey]

Hahahaha... cruise your half-broke Junk around to check a not completely working repair... and find some broken Junk to buy and work on....

 

 

You are a Jeeper.... :rotfl2: :rotfl2: