Ok lets talk metric tonne springs

[watchamakalit]

How many of you with metric tonne springs have loaded your truck heavy? I routinely use my MJ to haul firewood and the stock 2wd leaves are just not cutting it. I am looking for an upgrade that will allow me to fill the box. I know its probably not safe and it will ride like crap unloaded blah blah blah.... I am not interested in that. I simply want to know my best option for increasing the payload capabilities and keeping the fenders off the tires.

[Pete M]

How far are you hauling that amount of wood? How fast would you be traveling? Are we talking coming out of the woods? Or running down the roads?

[Ibby]

I load my metric ton up quite a bit. It's currently got about a thousand pounds worth of parts and project stuff in it. Helps out with driving in the snow. I've carried wood, 14-40 lathes (old heavy ones from the 60's), and even cut down Samurai's in it. I was a bit surprised to find that the springs did flex down but not as much as I'd expected.

The previous owner used it as a moving truck for years and loaded it down well on many occasions. You just can't seem to kill those spring packs. The only problem I saw was the rear brake proportioning unit arm likes to fall off. Pretty simple fix though.

[Falder]

I'm interested in this too. I'm hauling cedar posts right now with my chevy but when I get the MJ ready I'll be using it. Mine is 4wd (non metric ton) thou so I'm in a bit better shape.

[watchamakalit]

How far are you hauling that amount of wood? How fast would you be traveling? Are we talking coming out of the woods? Or running down the roads?

I will be hauling down the road but its all country roads (no highways) So it won't be at high speeds. Less than 10 miles a trip loaded.

[WahooSteeler]

I put some on mine last summer. My first test with them was a load of dirt and wood chips from a large stump I ground down. I had a load that filled the bed to the rails, and while it was definitely loaded down, I think it could have taken a little more. No idea how much that weighed, but a 7ft bed loaded to the rails with dirt, I would say it was a lot. I know Hornbrod bought some aftermarket MT packs and has had it really loaded on many occasions without issue. I found an OE set on car-part.com by looking for MJs that had either a D44 or AMC20 rear end. If you see a truck listed with the AMC20 you're done because that axle only came on the '86 and only in the MT package. Ask me how I know LOL! When I tried to search under leaf springs, there were a lot listed as 5 leafs but upon calling the yard actually had AALs or bastard packs. Ask me how I know that too LOL!!

[Sir Sam]

I put some on mine last summer. My first test with them was a load of dirt and wood chips from a large stump I ground down. I had a load that filled the bed to the rails, and while it was definitely loaded down, I think it could have taken a little more. No idea how much that weighed, but a 7ft bed loaded to the rails with dirt, I would say it was a lot. I know Hornbrod bought some aftermarket MT packs and has had it really loaded on many occasions without issue. I found an OE set on car-part.com by looking for MJs that had either a D44 or AMC20 rear end. If you see a truck listed with the AMC20 you're done because that axle only came on the '86 and only in the MT package. Ask me how I know LOL! When I tried to search under leaf springs, there were a lot listed as 5 leafs but upon calling the yard actually had AALs or bastard packs. Ask me how I know that too LOL!!

 

Whoa.....AMC20 MJs had the MT springs......dang, I passed up a set of those at the junkyard then.....

 

arg, I need to see if its still there!

[LEAD_NOT_FOLLOW]

...If you see a truck listed with the AMC20 you're done because that axle only came on the '86 and only in the MT package. ...

Hate to say this, but I do not believe this to be 100% true. I've recently picked up an '86 LWB 2WD that had the AMC20 (the reason I bought it), and I'm 95% sure it's not the Metric Ton package on it.

 

I'm at the hospital with my son right now, so I'll try to get pics when we're back home.

[WahooSteeler]

I can't recall all of my resources, but Pete confirmed that when I was researching for them last summer. I'd bet you're actually in for a surprise when you go back to look. Let us know............

 

 

Adam, is your son ok? How old is the little tyke now?

[LEAD_NOT_FOLLOW]

Here is a pic of said MJ. I'll take a better look at the rear leafs when I get a chance. It's hard to tell since it's a 2WD and the front fenders are off. Watchamakalit's less than a mile from it, maybe he can stop by and take a look at them since I know he wants the MJ anyways. :smart:

 

 

 

He's now 9 months old, and has RSV. Looks like we're gonna be here for a bit... (YUCK!) At least they have wi-fi to help pass some time...

[watchamakalit]

Here is a pic of said MJ. I'll take a better look at the rear leafs when I get a chance. It's hard to tell since it's a 2WD and the front fenders are off. Watchamakalit's less than a mile from it, maybe he can stop by and take a look at them since I know he wants the MJ anyways. :smart:

 

 

 

He's now 9 months old, and has RSV. Looks like we're gonna be here for a bit... (YUCK!) At least they have wi-fi to help pass some time...

 

 

I will run over on lunch and take a look at it, and report back with my findings and possibly some pics. :cheers:

[Pete M]

With all the swap-ability of parts on our trucks, there's no guarantee that any particular 22 year old MJ with an Amc-20 will have the metric leafs still attached. But if we're talking about "from the factory", I've found no evidence yet that the '20 was ever offered outside of the big ton package. But then, all sorts of weird stuff happened back in the day. It's almost as if we have to put an asterisk next to any statement about MJs. :(

[Car RamRod]

Being very budget minded (cheap), I made a bastard pack for my truck. I havent had a chance to load it well though.

 

 

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=13690

(pics a few posts down)

 

Matt

[watchamakalit]

Ok ran past Adams on the way to lunch. I am no expert but these don't look to me to be metric tonne springs. Correct me if I am wrong but don't the metric tonnes have something like 6 leaves in the pack?

 

 

[WahooSteeler]

With all the swap-ability of parts on our trucks, there's no guarantee that any particular 22 year old MJ with an Amc-20 will have the metric leafs still attached. But if we're talking about "from the factory", I've found no evidence yet that the '20 was ever offered outside of the big ton package. But then, all sorts of weird stuff happened back in the day. It's almost as if we have to put an asterisk next to any statement about MJs. :(

 

:agree: What will be even more strange though if it DOES NOT have a 5-spring MT pack is who would take those off, even if they didn't know what they were? ESPECIALLY on a 2wd, i.e. it's not like the wanted more flex. I still say it's gonna have them. :popcorn:

 

Edit*, ok, wow, I only see 4 leaves, MT's have 5. Adam knows his XJs/MJs about as well as anybody, I figured he just overlooked the springs when he saw what he wanted with the axle and such. And there's no mistaking that HUGE pumpkin on that 20! CA-RAZZZZEEEE! :hmm: :dunno:

[watchamakalit]

So from what I am hearing "almost" all MJ's with D44 rears had metric tonne springs?

[WahooSteeler]

So from what I am hearing "almost" all MJ's with D44 rears had metric tonne springs?

 

Hard to say. And I think what we may have learned here was this: many people assumed that if an 87+ MJ had a D44 it automatically had the MT pkg. Not true. Now, if you have the factory tow pkg, yes, you automatically had the D44. My truck is an example of that, and I also have the window sticker supporting that info. So, what I think is logical, the same "rules" applied in '86, the only difference being the HD axle was the AMC20 and not the D44, which replaced the 20 as the MJ's HD axle starting in '87.

 

So, you still may hold the answer to the $64,000 question: does that truck have a factory tow pkg? :popcorn:

[SuperWade2]

So from what I am hearing "almost" all MJ's with D44 rears had metric tonne springs?

 

Hard to say. And I think what we may have learned here was this: many people assumed that if an 87+ MJ had a D44 it automatically had the MT pkg. Not true. Now, if you have the factory tow pkg, yes, you automatically had the D44. My truck is an example of that, and I also have the window sticker supporting that info. So, what I think is logical, the same "rules" applied in '86, the only difference being the HD axle was the AMC20 and not the D44, which replaced the 20 as the MJ's HD axle starting in '87.

 

So, you still may hold the answer to the $64,000 question: does that truck have a factory tow pkg? :popcorn:

 

Factory D44 on my 89 (Per Build Sheet), No MT Package, No Tow Package

[watchamakalit]

So from what I am hearing "almost" all MJ's with D44 rears had metric tonne springs?

 

Hard to say. And I think what we may have learned here was this: many people assumed that if an 87+ MJ had a D44 it automatically had the MT pkg. Not true. Now, if you have the factory tow pkg, yes, you automatically had the D44. My truck is an example of that, and I also have the window sticker supporting that info. So, what I think is logical, the same "rules" applied in '86, the only difference being the HD axle was the AMC20 and not the D44, which replaced the 20 as the MJ's HD axle starting in '87.

 

So, you still may hold the answer to the $64,000 question: does that truck have a factory tow pkg? :popcorn:

 

Factory D44 on my 89 (Per Build Sheet), No MT Package, No Tow Package

Ok so that answers that question. Is the easiest way to simply count the leaves? Is it definatly a MT truck if it has 5 rear leaves?

[WahooSteeler]

So from what I am hearing "almost" all MJ's with D44 rears had metric tonne springs?

 

Hard to say. And I think what we may have learned here was this: many people assumed that if an 87+ MJ had a D44 it automatically had the MT pkg. Not true. Now, if you have the factory tow pkg, yes, you automatically had the D44. My truck is an example of that, and I also have the window sticker supporting that info. So, what I think is logical, the same "rules" applied in '86, the only difference being the HD axle was the AMC20 and not the D44, which replaced the 20 as the MJ's HD axle starting in '87.

 

So, you still may hold the answer to the $64,000 question: does that truck have a factory tow pkg? :popcorn:

 

Factory D44 on my 89 (Per Build Sheet), No MT Package, No Tow Package

 

Yep, forgot to mention that. I know you could order a D44 "a la carte", i.e. by itself. Sooooo, again, it stands to reason that the same ordering "rules" probably applied in '86 and you could order the 20 by itself. :dunno: LOL, maybe the only thing that's certain is that they were smart enough to not build an MT or Tow pkg truck with the 35. But as Pete always says, nothing is certain when it comes to specs on a Jeep. So, what's the over/under on how long it will take before somebody posts up the D35 w/tow pkg?

[WahooSteeler]

So from what I am hearing "almost" all MJ's with D44 rears had metric tonne springs?

 

Hard to say. And I think what we may have learned here was this: many people assumed that if an 87+ MJ had a D44 it automatically had the MT pkg. Not true. Now, if you have the factory tow pkg, yes, you automatically had the D44. My truck is an example of that, and I also have the window sticker supporting that info. So, what I think is logical, the same "rules" applied in '86, the only difference being the HD axle was the AMC20 and not the D44, which replaced the 20 as the MJ's HD axle starting in '87.

 

So, you still may hold the answer to the $64,000 question: does that truck have a factory tow pkg? :popcorn:

 

Factory D44 on my 89 (Per Build Sheet), No MT Package, No Tow Package

Ok so that answers that question. Is the easiest way to simply count the leaves? Is it definatly a MT truck if it has 5 rear leaves?

 

Now THAT is a definite, but even still with some variations. Yes, MT packs were always 5 leaves. I forget which years were which, but they had one set that had 3 long leaves and 2 short overload leaves, and the other one was 4 progessively lengthed leaves with the 1 overload leaf. Hornbrod can even supply you with the part #s :yes:

 

 

*Edit, well, once again, nothing is definite, especially with a Jeep. The pack with the 2 overload springs someone could have added an aftermarket overload spring, although they don't usually look the same as the bottom factory spring, so if you lay your eyes on a set of these, I'd say it is "highly likely" they are factory MTs. On the other pack though, there's always the chance one could be an AAL. Best way to tell if these are factory is probably to check 2 things: the 4 main leaves should be evenly spaced, and the tips should be tapered whereas an AAL is usually just squared off on the end IIRC. :ack:

[Sir Sam]

Ok ran past Adams on the way to lunch. I am no expert but these don't look to me to be metric tonne springs. Correct me if I am wrong but don't the metric tonnes have something like 6 leaves in the pack?

 

 

 

Mine look the exact same as those.....2wd with dana 35 rear.

[watchamakalit]

So from what I am hearing "almost" all MJ's with D44 rears had metric tonne springs?

 

Hard to say. And I think what we may have learned here was this: many people assumed that if an 87+ MJ had a D44 it automatically had the MT pkg. Not true. Now, if you have the factory tow pkg, yes, you automatically had the D44. My truck is an example of that, and I also have the window sticker supporting that info. So, what I think is logical, the same "rules" applied in '86, the only difference being the HD axle was the AMC20 and not the D44, which replaced the 20 as the MJ's HD axle starting in '87.

 

So, you still may hold the answer to the $64,000 question: does that truck have a factory tow pkg? :popcorn:

 

Factory D44 on my 89 (Per Build Sheet), No MT Package, No Tow Package

Ok so that answers that question. Is the easiest way to simply count the leaves? Is it definatly a MT truck if it has 5 rear leaves?

 

Now THAT is a definite, but even still with some variations. Yes, MT packs were always 5 leaves. I forget which years were which, but they had one set that had 3 long leaves and 2 short overload leaves, and the other one was 4 progessively lengthed leaves with the 1 overload leaf. Hornbrod can even supply you with the part #s :yes:

 

 

*Edit, well, once again, nothing is definite, especially with a Jeep. The pack with the 2 overload springs someone could have added an aftermarket overload spring, although they don't usually look the same as the bottom factory spring, so if you lay your eyes on a set of these, I'd say it is "highly likely" they are factory MTs. On the other pack though, there's always the chance one could be an AAL. Best way to tell if these are factory is probably to check 2 things: the 4 main leaves should be evenly spaced, and the tips should be tapered whereas an AAL is usually just squared off on the end IIRC. :ack:

Ok so I need to look for 5 leaf packs. Most commonly 3 longs and 2 shorts. But they could be progressively shorter leaves.

Correct?

[HOrnbrod]

Here's the spec sheets for the 5-leaf MJ 4+1 and 3+2 MT springs, courtesy of our good buddy Tom @ Hell Creek. As you can see, the 3+2 has a bit more free arch (9.50" vs. 9.12") and is rated a higher in load capacity (1700 lbs vs. 1440 lbs). I have the 3+2 variety on mine and they netted about 3" of lift. I'm thinkin maybe he could whip up a pair of either variety?

 

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[WahooSteeler]

Ok so I need to look for 5 leaf packs. Most commonly 3 longs and 2 shorts. But they could be progressively shorter leaves. Correct?

 

I am pretty sure the more common setup was 4 long and 1 short/overload, but don't hold me to that. I'm sure Hornbrod will pick up on this thread later and he's the most knowledgeable about which style was produced more etc. I'll try to post up some pics of my 4+1's to illustrate the progressive lengths and tapered ends to help identify against a pack you might see with an AAL in there. But if you do see a 3+2 setup, I'm pretty sure they'll be the real thing as opposed to a bastard pack built that way.

 

 

**Edit, LOL, seems like Don posted while I was typing this post. Don, for some reason I thought you had the 4+1s. Anyway, don't you also have some pics of both styles?