HOrnbrod Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 This is Nothing CANADA VS US so I do not understand that and am insulted... Just a Debate and I am no Electrical Expert either and if there is a Valid reason this is Not Good I want to know so I can Look further into it... But So far I am the only one Actually Putting Numbers to it and I can Go outside and put a DC amp meter or volt meter and Get the Actual Current load on the lights... Mister Smarty Pants? Clever! Have not been called that in years. :D It's good to know you are semi-aware of Ohm's Law too. If you bothered to read my post, it's all to do with voltage drop in the distance from the battery to the headlamp load inherent in the stock headlamp wiring configuration. Power starts from the battery thru small gauge wiring to a couple of small brass switch contacts on the headlamp switch, then thru the HI/LO switch, thru more small gauge wiring to the load. All this distance adds voltage drop, and the corrosion on tie points caused by the age of our trucks compounds the voltage drop, which causes heat, burns stuff, usually switch contacts. I'm not about to waste my time getting into a pissing contest with you, instead I'll just direct you to the link below that explains it much better than I can. I really do not give a rat's butt how you wire your own lamps, I just do not like you spouting advice on this forum claiming there is no reason why you should not upgrade your factory wiring when you increase the load on the headlamp circuit. This circuit was inadequate to begin with. And that applies to ANY electrical circuit. Jeep, as all manufacturers do, designed the electrical system for economics; to power adequately the supplied load devices in the vehicle's electrical system. You increase the load, you decrease reliability of the circuit. And Beast, cut the USA vs. CAN crap. That has nothing to do w. this "debate". ;) http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/relays/relays.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeepdoggydogB Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I used the IPF's and Magic bulbs, and the BigOffroad harness http://www.quadratec.com/products/97017_600.htm They work well except they aren't "DOT", As I recall I think the Hella's are DOT for those that have State inspections it might matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 If you bothered to read my post, it's all to do with voltage drop in the distance from the battery to the headlamp load inherent in the stock headlamp wiring configuration. If you were to actually read my Post you would see this has nothing to do with a Voltage drop when the Load is NO different then Stock which is where you do not understand, If the Load was greatly increased then Yes A Wiring Upgrade is a Good if not Great Idea but this is a Better lighting system with NO load changes to the Factory system... The factory system is 55W Low beam so if by your theory, then No one can even upgrade to silverstars without a Wireing upgrade... Which is Completely Wrong since the load does not change... + If this was a Real concern I think guys like IPF and other manufactures would state a warning on the Lights otherwise they would get lawsuits like crazy from guys MElting down their Car's and Trucks... I care Not to contuine this as Those who have plans for this Upgrade will either add the lights with No wiring upgrades or Rewire their headlight system and add relay's if they are concerned... My Comments were to mearly Make it CLEAR that there is NO LOAD CHANGES therfore does not warrent a Wiring Upgrade, NOT to get a bunch of ladies getting thier panties in a bunch and For that I aplogize for the Panty Bunching :rotfl2: ... Take care and Onto the Next Project... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLHTAZ Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 FWIW... I upgraded to Silverstars a long time ago. Much brighter and I did nothing but plug them in :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugarfoot Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 I changed to the Hella type and upgraded the wiring. Best safety upgrade I have done yet. Huge differance. Have had no problems with inspections for the last 2 years here in TX. Pretty strick here too as they are tighter than CA on smog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 If you were to actually read my Post you would see this has nothing to do with a Voltage drop when the Load is NO different then Stock which is where you do not understand, If the Load was greatly increased then Yes A Wiring Upgrade is a Good if not Great Idea but this is a Better lighting system with NO load changes to the Factory system... The factory system is 55W Low beam so if by your theory, then No one can even upgrade to silverstars without a Wireing upgrade... Which is Completely Wrong since the load does not change... + If this was a Real concern I think guys like IPF and other manufactures would state a warning on the Lights otherwise they would get lawsuits like crazy from guys MElting down their Car's and Trucks... I care Not to contuine this as Those who have plans for this Upgrade will either add the lights with No wiring upgrades or Rewire their headlight system and add relay's if they are concerned... My Comments were to mearly Make it CLEAR that there is NO LOAD CHANGES therfore does not warrent a Wiring Upgrade, NOT to get a bunch of ladies getting thier panties in a bunch and For that I aplogize for the Panty Bunching :rotfl2: ... Take care and Onto the Next Project... You are absolutely correct stating that if you replace the 55W sealed beam units with 55W H4 bulb lamps, the load remains the same and the current draw remains the same, about 4.3 amps/per lamp assuming a 12.8V supply voltage. And the light output should be somewhat better because the halogen H4 bulb produces more candlepower (lumens) of light per watt of electrical energy than the sealed beam incandescents. This is like swapping in a pair of DOT-compliant SilverStar lamps. I tried these; they were better than stock, but not that much better. What causes problems of course with our anemic factory wiring setup is swapping in higher wattage bulbs, like maybe 100W H4s, which most guys do. The amp draw then jumps up to 7.8 amps/per lamp. And when you add to that the inherent voltage drop across the thin stock wiring and switch contacts, and sooner later something's going to fry and/or burn, which is why so many guys are frying their headlight switches. So I do agree with you mate; if you are swapping in 55W halogen lamps to replace your 55W sealed beams, you should be okay w/o making any wiring changes. But you will not get the max. candlepower your new halogen bulbs are capable of because the crappy factory wiring has too much voltage drop. And that's why I recommend using an upgraded wiring harness with relays so your new halogens can do what they are capable of. I recommend using an upgrading the wiring as the first step for better lighting, even if you keep the stock sealed beams, because they will perform much better. So we're both saying the same thing, except I feel the wiring upgrade is the single most important first step before slapping in new H4s or whatever. And it's not ladies getting thier panties in a bunch, it's just doing things the right (and safest) way, since the JeeP electrical engineers didn't do it for us. Been a pleasure discussing this with you Jeepman...... :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted December 12, 2008 Share Posted December 12, 2008 ... + the Fogs are only a 55W (4.5AMP) Lamp aswell and the relay is there and I can not say why I am not a Jeep Engineer... I think the reason the fog lamps run through a relay is because they run off the same headlamp circuit and through the headlight switch (hence they only work when your headlights are on). The combined draw from the fog lights (55W) plus the draw from the headlights (55W or 65W) will overload the switch and possibly rest of the circuit. But the draw from the relay (1W?) is small enough to be negligible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 hornbrod This Information is important and Worth the discussion and trying to write what we actual want to say tends to get lost in the fingers unlike a Face to Face conversation... Take care and may the SUN shine on your Chrome... :cheers: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Well said. :beerhead: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiNi Beast Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 chrome :shake: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvusse Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 You silly Hornbrod, Chrome is for ricers. :rotf: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnj92131 Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Don, Can you tell me more about the "decent aftermarket headlamp harness"? I need to replace one sealed beam anyway, so may as well upgrade the wiring harness. "For a few bucks you can wire in a decent aftermarket headlamp harness w. relays, like the APC or make your own, and get the full voltage to your new headlights w/o voltage drop and protect your headlamp switch and stock wiring from burning up. Just adding the harness w. relays will dramatically upgrade the lumens output of the stock sealed beams." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnj92131 Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Don, Can you tell me more about the "decent aftermarket headlamp harness"? I need to replace one sealed beam anyway, so may as well upgrade the wiring harness. "For a few bucks you can wire in a decent aftermarket headlamp harness w. relays, like the APC or make your own, and get the full voltage to your new headlights w/o voltage drop and protect your headlamp switch and stock wiring from burning up. Just adding the harness w. relays will dramatically upgrade the lumens output of the stock sealed beams." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Don, Can you tell me more about the "decent aftermarket headlamp harness"? I need to replace one sealed beam anyway, so may as well upgrade the wiring harness. I got mine APC headlight harness from Ebay, but I don't see any there now. This one from Summit looks like the same unit. It's for a 4-lamp vehicle, but will work fine for your 2-lamp, just cut off the extra two headlight plugs and save for spares. There are lots of other manufacturers, just search for headlight harness. http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 Don, Can you tell me more about the "decent aftermarket headlamp harness"? I need to replace one sealed beam anyway, so may as well upgrade the wiring harness. I got mine APC headlight harness from Ebay, but I don't see any there now. This one from Summit looks like the same unit. It's for a 4-lamp vehicle, but will work fine for your 2-lamp, just cut off the extra two headlight plugs and save for spares. There are lots of other manufacturers, just search for headlight harness. http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... toview=sku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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