Garage Talk (Air Compressor's Specifically)

[SuperWade2]

I want a new Air Compressor and am looking for some feedback and open dialog on the subject...

 

I have a crappy Harbor Freight 4 gallon Pancake compressor, which does OK to blow up bike tires, fill up the kiddie pool in the back yard and was even serviceable to push a few nails though a new Nail gun I picked up this spring... BUT it just does not keep up with virtually ANY air tools of any kind... the Ratchet was worthless, forget the hammer or grinder...

 

So, I've been poking around a little bit looking perferrable for a Craigslist special on something that will actually run some tools. I was looking in the 30/60 Gallon Range and something that pushes in the 10-15 CFM's @ 90PSI range if possible. Most of the ones I've seen that fit this bill are all 220/240V.

 

Now the tricky thing is that my garage is only wired for 110v (sort of) and I really only have one 15 Amp shared circuit anywhere near my back wall where my workbench is. I say sort of because I have my 220 for my Gas Dryer about 15 feet from where my workbench is, inside the hallway leading from the garage into the house. I also had AC installed in our house in 2007 and they had to run 220/240 from the main panel outside of the garage, and through the garage, and out the back wall to where the AC Compressor is. There is a junction box that I expect that I would be able to tap into and could get 220 , and would just not be able to run the AC and Air Compressor at the same time (which would probably be doable since I only run the AC about 3 weeks a year and those days are too hot to work in the garage anyhow).

 

SO, I guess the million dollar question is if I should hold out for 220v bigger unit and try to run power, or just deal with a smaller, less powerful, less CFM unit that runs 110 and not worry about it (except the single 15amp circuit is blows pretty much every time I kick on my HF compresor I have now, so I probably need to run another circuit (30 amp) out there anyhow).

 

I don't really know how to do any of the electrical stuff I describe above, but my old man, whose has done electrical his whole life could probably help me (or I could pay a licensed guy, which sounds like too much $$$)...

 

Thoughts?

SW2

[CWLONGSHOT]

Defineately go 220v, and look at cfm ratings, they are not created equil.

 

CW

[Eagle]

Go for the 220-volt compressor. And don't get an "oilless." Get one with two cylinders, and a real oil sump.

 

Remember that the ratings they put on compressors today are all lies. I'm still using a compressor I bought at least 30 years ago, probably more than 35 years. It's a 2-cylinder Sears Craftsman, 115-volt. The motor is a 3 HP motor, capacitor start. That was, at the time, THE largest compressor anywhere in the known universe that would run on 115 volts.

 

Fast forward to today, and I routinely see 115-volt compressors advertised as 5 HP, even 6 HP. Yet they don't put out any more pressure or sustained volume than my old 3 HP Sears. The Sears is a horizontal. I think the tank is 12 gallons. Whatever it ism it is NOT enough to keep up with an air die grinder. It's great for a spray gun, okay for an air wrench or impact gun ... but woefully inadequate for anything requiring sustained air flow.

 

Your idea about splitting off the a/c circuit is certainly viable. You could also tap off the dryer circuit, unless your family does a lot of laundry at the times you'd likely be working in the garage. You'll probably need a 30-amp circuit, which will require 8-gauge wire. If the circuit you're going to tap into has a 40-amp breaker, you'll need 6-gauge wire.

 

Are there any unused knockouts in your circuit breaker panel? If so, you can probably add a dedicated circuit for the compressor in the garage and not worry about slaving off the dryer or the a/c. I just put a small sub-panel in my garage, because the main panel was filled up and I wanted a 230-volt outlet in the garage, as well as another 115-volt outlet circuit for the garage, and another one for the basement. I had a 50-amp breaker for the range, so I left that in the mainbox and wired it to be the main feed into the subpanel. Then I installed a 40-amp breaker for the range, a 30-amp breaker for the 230-volt circuit in the garage (that'll handle either a new compressor or a new welder, whichever arrives first), and a couple of 15-amp 115-volt circuits. And I still have spares to add a couple more circuits, like the attic vent fan I keep threatening to install.

[IDXJ]

Your idea about splitting off the a/c circuit is certainly viable. You could also tap off the dryer circuit, unless your family does a lot of laundry at the times you'd likely be working in the garage. You'll probably need a 30-amp circuit, which will require 8-gauge wire. If the circuit you're going to tap into has a 40-amp breaker, you'll need 6-gauge wire.

quote]

X2. You can just run a heavy extension cord in the door to the dryer circuit when you need it. You can also just "tee" off the dryer circuit with another receptacle in the garage. You could only run 1 at a time as the load would be too heavy for simoultanious (sp) use though. I did the extesion cord thing for a while till I got my shop built. I would reccomend at least a 5hp 60 gal. compressor. I personally would like even more capacity than that. I have been keeping my eyes open for an additional tank to plumb in.

[Akula69]

Your idea about splitting off the a/c circuit is certainly viable. You could also tap off the dryer circuit, unless your family does a lot of laundry at the times you'd likely be working in the garage.

 

X2. You can just run a heavy extension cord in the door to the dryer circuit when you need it. You can also just "tee" off the dryer circuit with another receptacle in the garage. You could only run 1 at a time as the load would be too heavy for simoultanious (sp) use though. I did the extesion cord thing for a while till I got my shop built. I would reccomend at least a 5hp 60 gal. compressor. I personally would like even more capacity than that. I have been keeping my eyes open for an additional tank to plumb in.

 

Do this only if you want to increase the risk of fire. :eek:

 

 

Like Eagle said, the best option is a dedicated circuit that feeds a true 240V off at least a 40 AMP breaker. I would actually go with 6 gauge wire (same as what is used to wire ovens here in La.) to reduce the risks of overheating.

 

It really depends on whether you believe sustained use will occur (grinder, inline sander, some tank-fed spray guns). The wires will get hot with current, especially if you run a considerable distance. An extension cord would not be suitable unless it was overlarge gauge.

 

And, the CFM ratings on the tools are all lies....expect at least 1.5 to 2 times more air usage then what they list.

[HOrnbrod]

Yeah, I need a bigger one too. I'm looking at this one. Tractor Supply has them on sale at $349:

 

CLICK Here

[jeepdoggydogB]

I have been eying this one when I get my vacation payout.

 

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/ ... _200339041

 

It is pricey but uses 110 V and can power just about any tool you throw at it and it is made right here in the USA!

[HOrnbrod]

Yes, Ingersoll Rand makes quality products. But I've got plenty of 220V service in the garage and want a vertical 2-stage to save space. :cheers:

[Eagle]

I have been eying this one when I get my vacation payout.

 

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/ ... _200339041

 

It is pricey but uses 110 V and can power just about any tool you throw at it and it is made right here in the USA!

Read my post above. The one you're looking at is only 2 HP, mine is 3 HP and can't keep up. Notice that they conveniently do NOT give you any specs on how many cfm this "gem" produces, and that's the critical spec that determines whether or not it'll keep up with your tools. Look for a spec on "Standard Cubic Feet per Minute" or "SCFM." If they don't tell you -- be VERY suspicious. Heck, it's a single stage. I believe that means, in compressor lingo, one cylinder. Ain't no way a 1-cylinder, 110-volt compressor is going to keep up with an air grinder.

 

And I don't believe for one moment it's made in the USA. Pretty much all compressors today are made in China, and it doesn't matter whose name is on it. I may be wrong, but I don't think so (in this instance).

[HOrnbrod]

Yeah, I need a bigger one too. I'm looking at this one. Tractor Supply has them on sale at $349:

 

CLICK Here

 

What do you think of this one Eagle? 2-stage, 3.2HP (?so they say?) 60 gal and 220V?

 

EDIT: Naw, looks like only single stage.............

[jeepdoggydogB]

I have been eying this one when I get my vacation payout.

 

http://www.northerntool.com/webapp/wcs/ ... _200339041

 

It is pricey but uses 110 V and can power just about any tool you throw at it and it is made right here in the USA!

Read my post above. The one you're looking at is only 2 HP, mine is 3 HP and can't keep up. Notice that they conveniently do NOT give you any specs on how many cfm this "gem" produces, and that's the critical spec that determines whether or not it'll keep up with your tools. Look for a spec on "Standard Cubic Feet per Minute" or "SCFM." If they don't tell you -- be VERY suspicious. Heck, it's a single stage. I believe that means, in compressor lingo, one cylinder. Ain't no way a 1-cylinder, 110-volt compressor is going to keep up with an air grinder.

 

And I don't believe for one moment it's made in the USA. Pretty much all compressors today are made in China, and it doesn't matter whose name is on it. I may be wrong, but I don't think so (in this instance).

Eagle,

Here are some better specs

 

http://www.aircompressorsdirect.com/Ing ... /p684.html

 

I must admit I am a newbie but from my research 4 CFM at 90 PSI is allegedly adequate to run an air grinder this one rates 4.9 at 90 PSI 6 at 40 PSI. If there is a better USA made compressor I would love to hear what folks recommend. I am not as lucky as Don ;) to have all that power available, the wife's tanning bed and our A/C take up all my available 220 multiphase slots. :cheers:

[djag12]

SuperWade can you snap me a picture of your box? Is it 200A service? What type of box...SquareD, General Electric, ect. sometmes there are things you can do to make room in a safe manner.

[SuperWade2]

SuperWade can you snap me a picture of your box? Is it 200A service? What type of box...SquareD, General Electric, ect. sometmes there are things you can do to make room in a safe manner.

 

Here is the Inside Breaker Box... Looks like 125 Amps

 

Here is the Outside Box (the AC is connected to the 50 Amp Breaker because it always blows)

 

And this is where the Conduit from the outside Breaker is run inside the Garage and then back outside to the AC Compressor unit through the hole in the back wall.

[Eagle]

Your inside breaker panel may or may not have space enough for one more 2-pole breaker (which you need for a 230-volt circuit). That blank knock-out at the bottom of the left tier may be able to accept a paired breaker, but you should remove the cover and check before proceeding.

 

I like that junction box for the a/c circuit. As long as you can juggle use of the a/c and the compressor, I'd tap another set of conductors off that to an outlet in the garage for the compressor and call it good. You probably won't be unplugging the compressor a lot, so you could wire to it directly. I'd use an outlet anyway, and probably set it up with a twistlock plug and receptacle.

 

It's a 50-amp breaker, so use heavy wire. 6-gauge will probably do the job. Just check what they used for the a/c circuit and match that. You won't want the compressor running all the time, so you should also consider wiring it through a heavy-duty disconnect switch.

[Akula69]

SW2 - I can't tell if you have space on the side of your electrical panel, but there is also the possibility of a sub panel. I'd need to know what your electrical service is (the meter rating from the electrical company). Most houses built these days use a 200 AMP service, some go with a 300 AMP. If you're lucky, that'll be what you have and a sub-panel would be the safest way to go.

 

I still do not believe a tap on the A/C line is safe, even after seeing the gauge of wire that is currently being used. Even if it was safe, if the electrical service on the house is maxed out, you could have a fire in your panel.

 

I can't see the AMP ratings of the breakers you currently have, but it appears your panel is only rated for 125 AMPS. The breakers are marked for the AMP rating (of course you are not using all those AMPS at once, but a general rule of thumb would be to add them up and divide by 1/3 to get the actual constant usage). You'll need to either look at the meter pan (or post a picture) to find out if it can be done.

[carnuck]

Here's my compressor

Image Not Found

 

Currently powered by a Wisconsin single (electric start), which is about to be replaced with a slightly more modern Briggs and Stratton 12HP with electric start. A 1 wire alt will go on it to keep the battery charged up. (it's eventually going to be changed out for a small 4 cyl water cooled motor running on LPG which will generate power for my cabin and heat as long as it's running)

 

PS: The truck it's sitting in is about to go up for sale. '83 J10 with 4.2L/AW4/NP208J with 3.31 gears and 33" tires

[jtdesigns]

Wade,, :idea: , here's what you do.... go yank the engine out of your neighbors VW square-back and put check valves in 3 of the spark plug holes... then source the magneto coil from his new riding lawnmower and slap it on the crankshaft, so you can produce spark to the #4 cylinder. While your yanking the lawnmower parts grab the carb too. Drill and tap you two holes on the the intake port of that #4 cyl and crap grab the gas tank off the lawn mower too and hook it all up. Now get the V-DUBs battery and hook it up to the starter, hook the alt to the battery, and put a switch on it all. Make a exhaust pipe that goes out side. Hook the three check valves to air line going into a manifold block and then to a 60 gal lp tank (of course from your neighbor) and there you go. Pretty much guaranteed 20 cfm at 120 psi. Oh you might want to go buy you a pressure switch and hook it up to the magneto coil.. I guess you could add a remote start deal so when the pressure gets low it'll start the engine automatically... If you wanted that is.......

 

 

 

:dunce:

[SuperWade2]

Wade,, :idea: , here's what you do.... go yank the engine out of your neighbors VW square-back and put check valves in 3 of the spark plug holes... then source the magneto coil from his new riding lawnmower and slap it on the crankshaft, so you can produce spark to the #4 cylinder. While your yanking the lawnmower parts grab the carb too. Drill and tap you two holes on the the intake port of that #4 cyl and crap grab the gas tank off the lawn mower too and hook it all up. Now get the V-DUBs battery and hook it up to the starter, hook the alt to the battery, and put a switch on it all. Make a exhaust pipe that goes out side. Hook the three check valves to air line going into a manifold block and then to a 60 gal lp tank (of course from your neighbor) and there you go. Pretty much guaranteed 20 cfm at 120 psi. Oh you might want to go buy you a pressure switch and hook it up to the magneto coil.. I guess you could add a remote start deal so when the pressure gets low it'll start the engine automatically... If you wanted that is.......

 

 

 

:dunce:

 

OK, it creeps me out that you know that my Neighbor HAD a VW square back... Sold it for $250 to a kid from my 4x4club that came to buy my Engine Hoist...

[jtdesigns]

OK, it creeps me out that you know that my Neighbor HAD a VW square back... Sold it for $250 to a kid from my 4x4club that came to buy my Engine Hoist...

 

 

:rotfl2: :clapping: :chillin:

[Akula69]

Wade,, :idea: , here's what you do.... go yank the engine out of your neighbors VW square-back and put check valves in 3 of the spark plug holes... then source the magneto coil from his new riding lawnmower and slap it on the crankshaft, so you can produce spark to the #4 cylinder. While your yanking the lawnmower parts grab the carb too. Drill and tap you two holes on the the intake port of that #4 cyl and crap grab the gas tank off the lawn mower too and hook it all up. Now get the V-DUBs battery and hook it up to the starter, hook the alt to the battery, and put a switch on it all. Make a exhaust pipe that goes out side. Hook the three check valves to air line going into a manifold block and then to a 60 gal lp tank (of course from your neighbor) and there you go. Pretty much guaranteed 20 cfm at 120 psi. Oh you might want to go buy you a pressure switch and hook it up to the magneto coil.. I guess you could add a remote start deal so when the pressure gets low it'll start the engine automatically... If you wanted that is.......

 

 

 

:dunce:

 

 

:rotfl2: :rotfl2: :rotfl2: :bowdown:

 

Finest kind!

[Randy in Maine]

I have a buddy who bought one of these and he is pretty happy with it for what he does and what he paid.

 

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/sto ... =100005910

 

Runs out of air sandblasting, but everything does.

[djag12]

SuperWade, without seeing the inside of the panel, slots 11 and 12 would be enough for a 30 or 40 amp breaker. Personally I would use those two slots to add a 60 or 100 amps sub panel so you have room if you ever want to add anything else. Also, I have to say I have never worked on that brand box before. But other brands have what they call split breakers. They are two breakers in one for people that run out of room. If you don't have two slots open you can purchase one of those breakers and you just need to remove two old breakers and add this one breaker with the two hots hooked to it ( make sure they are the same amperage)

[SuperWade2]

SuperWade, without seeing the inside of the panel, slots 11 and 12 would be enough for a 30 or 40 amp breaker. Personally I would use those two slots to add a 60 or 100 amps sub panel so you have room if you ever want to add anything else. Also, I have to say I have never worked on that brand box before. But other brands have what they call split breakers. They are two breakers in one for people that run out of room. If you don't have two slots open you can purchase one of those breakers and you just need to remove two old breakers and add this one breaker with the two hots hooked to it ( make sure they are the same amperage)

 

I'm going to have my electrician guy to come give me a quote... I really don't want to burn my house down or fry myself....

 

He is pretty reasonably priced and has done some Canned Lights and Ceiling fan work for me in the past.

[Eagle]

But other brands have what they call split breakers. They are two breakers in one for people that run out of room. If you don't have two slots open you can purchase one of those breakers and you just need to remove two old breakers and add this one breaker with the two hots hooked to it ( make sure they are the same amperage)

Careful.

 

Adjacent 115-volt breakers in a panel are connected to alternate legs of the 230-volt service. When you pop in a double breaker for a 230-volt circuit, it's basically two 115-volt breakers with a pin connecting the two handles so if one leg blows, the whole breaker opens.

 

Split breakers can only be used for 115-volt circuits, because both halves are connected to the same leg of the 230-volt service. If you wired a 230-volt device to the two sides of a single split breaker -- it wouldn't run.

[djag12]

Eagle, I didn't mean for him to use the split breaker for the 230v. I was just saying you can pull two 15 or 20 amp breakers out and replace them with one Split to make room for the 30 or 40 amp double pole breaker.