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The jeep dont like to start


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Ok so it has been a really bad day...

 

First off i have been a little sick so the jeep has set a few days without being used and apparently it don't like that. When i got in it today to head to town it wouldn't start. It just turned over and acted like it was not getting fuel or fire or something. After a quick sniff i realized it was a little flooded so i left it sitting for about 20-30 minutes and tried it again with the same results. I checked the spark the old halfass way and stuck a screwdriver in the coil wire and it was plenty hot as my fingers were a little close :mad:

 

I couldn't find anything at all wrong that i could think of at the time. So i unplugged the battery and let it reset the computer (wasnt sure if that worked on a jeep or not) it didnt help either. When everything else wouldn't work i hit it with a little starting fluid or either whatever you want to call it, it started acting like it wanted to run but not quite. So i gave it another spray and after it turned over several times it fired up and ran. If you have any idea what caused that please let me know.

 

And then the bad day got worse...

 

I pulled out of the driveway onto the road and went about half a mile and turned off to go down the mountain and made it about half way just to look out the window in time to see my driver side rear wheel pass me by...it didnt even have the courtesy to wave...

 

:wall:

 

 

At least i have friends with a tow trucks.... [/img]

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Sounds like a fuel pressure problem. Probably have a fuel pump going bad. See if you can get a guage and check the pressure.

 

The wheels studs all look OK so how dod the wheel come off :nuts:

 

Sorry to hear about the tough luck :cry: .

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I am not real sure how the wheel just managed to fly off. I have a sneaky suspicion that it had a little help to be honest which really pi$$es me off. i told a family member about it and they were very upset that the damage was minimal so it leads me to wonder...

 

After walking away from it yesterday out of anger i went back this morning and the only damage i really see is it ground on the brake drum and put a flat spot in it. it trashed the rim as well but i have the factory original set to put back on it. so basically I'm gonna replace the lugs and the drum and be road ready again. The bent fender has me more mad than anything....i was just getting ready to start working on the body and readying it for a new front clip and some paint...

 

Fuel pressure is something that i had over looked compleatly... thanks for the reminder. I guess i just figured if it had enough to be a little flooded it was ok but it could be fluctuating enough to not keep a good flow 100% of the time i guess.

 

thanks

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First off.......what's the spec's of your truck.....like year, engine (4.0 I hope) and then we'll hit you on some things to check.......like fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, ballast resistor.......so on ;)

 

Here's a little trouble shooting guide for the Renix fuel system.

 

Unhooking the battery for the Renix system don't do any thing, the Renix system stores no codes, and each start is a fresh start for the ECM.

 

I have a sneaky suspicion that it had a little help

 

Ah.....who's the beneficiary on your life insurance????

 

Never mind.......we don't want to know :roll:

 

Only thing worst than having a rear wheel come off, is having dully 16" wheels come off a cube van, the good news was the inter wheel stayed with the truck, and kind of held the axle off the ground, saving the drum, the bad.........I had to walk a 1/4 mile down the road and get the outer wheel from someones front lawn :roll:

 

Them sucker really get rolling don't they????? and when they hit the a ditch, really bounce high too :D

 

Oh......and don't ask me how I know.......But, a good torque wrench is handy :roll:

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Fuel pressure is something that i had over looked compleatly... thanks for the reminder. I guess i just figured if it had enough to be a little flooded it was ok but it could be fluctuating enough to not keep a good flow 100% of the time i guess.

Hint -- it has electronic fuel injection. The ONLY way to "flood" it is if the fuel pump and injectors work but you have NO spark. There is NO choke, and there is NO accelerator pump. Flooding is effectively impossible.

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AHHH yes... i forgot the specs.

 

1990 4.0 trans has escaped my memory again but its automatic and leaky lol and 2 wheel drive.

 

Eagle.. I never really thought about that until you said it but it did smell just like a carburated engine does when its flooded so whats the possibility i didn't have spark momentarily ? I'm not sure what caused it but it has started just fine several times today and ran just fine, smooth idle and same as far as power goes as its always been.

 

Wildman you are very right ! Tires bounce and roll in the most unexpected way possible when they come off. I have had them come off trailers before and knocked one off a four wheeler which was pretty exciting for a second, but this was the first time i had one come off a truck. Mine went about 50 yards then jumped down the side of the mountain pretty much straight up and down. I did get it back though.

 

Oh and i'd tell ya the story behind who helped it but involves a bunch of drama I'm sure the owner/mods here don't want on their boards.

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AHHH yes... i forgot the specs.

 

1990 4.0 trans has escaped my memory again but its automatic and leaky lol and 2 wheel drive.

 

Eagle.. I never really thought about that until you said it but it did smell just like a carburated engine does when its flooded so whats the possibility i didn't have spark momentarily ? I'm not sure what caused it but it has started just fine several times today and ran just fine, smooth idle and same as far as power goes as its always been.

 

 

Your auto transmission would be a AW4.

 

The fact that your starting and running now, kind of points to the connector for the CPS......If I had time this morning......I would look up the latest tread on that, but I don't.

 

Follow up on that tech info Here , But you should also go thru the fuel pressure check.

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Thanks once again for the help. I checked the CPS and the connector for it. It actually looks like the previous owner has replaced it not long ago. I did however notice that the valve cover leak i thought i had fixed isnt fixed and it has covered the outside of the CPS with oil. I'm just guessing the inside is probably covered too and that can't be good for it.

 

The fuel pressure test i will have to wait a few more days on. The guy i always have work on my stuff is backed up and can't get me in right now. I'm hoping the pressure and everything is fine since i just replaced the regulator and injector O-rings last month and had enough of the fuel system to last me a while lol. Thats not my favorite thing to work on..

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Yes, if oil is leaking down on to the CPS, that could cause a problem......giving the ECU a bad reading. The CPS use a magnetic field to tell the ECU when the piston is at TDC. Oil coating the sensor could have an effect on the magnet core of the sensor.

 

If the PO did replace the CPS, it still could be a brand new "bad" CPS, others here have had problems with brand new out of the box CPS's, the only way to make sure is to do the ohm's test on it, as described in that link I posted for you.

 

You mentioned that you did some work on the fuel system already.......see, it helps to know that up front.......to give you ideas what to check.

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Wildman.. I tried the test on it just as the link you posted described, actually a friend of mine did it for me and just finished 30 minutes or so ago. He said it was reading fine according the link/website. I think i am going to replace it anyways.

Sorry about forgetting to include the info about the fuel system repairs, i have just had to do so much with this truck it is hard to remember all of the little things sometimes. I do think we have all the info posted now relating to this problem.

 

Are 4.0's generally a leaky motor or what ? I have had the rear main leaking for a while now the new valve cover gasket is leaking and i have found that also the oil pan gasket is starting to leak. Every time i look at this truck i find a new problem...

 

I'm trying to keep a positive attitude about it all but i am having a hard time not wanting to park it and find another truck for work. I have to depend on this thing everyday and it's not easy sometimes.

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I didn't mean to come off in a bad way......about the info.....and yea I know, we all forget things :roll:

 

Are 4.0's generally a leaky motor or what ?

 

What your dealing with is a 20 year old truck......and engine, and what happens to rubber after 20 years?????? Yea, it dry rots, crumbles apart, and looses it's volume over that amount of time.

 

What you need to do, and I've done this, and other have too, is take some time, and $$$, go thru all the info here, and other places and just start at one point and replace all the 20 year old seals and gaskets. It will take a couple of days to do this, but the end results are, no more oil leaks, and better running and service to you :D

 

IE: the rear main seal, oil pan gasket, all at one time. Input and output seals in the tranny, transfercase.........

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When i bought the truck i knew i would have little things here and there going wrong. As you said it is an older truck and if nothing else deserves to have a little wrong, it sure has been abused enough to deserve it anyways. It just seems like the more i fix the more i find that i need to repair just to keep it on the road.

I bought all the gaskets that are going to be a pain to replace with the motor still in the truck cause i figured it was pretty much going to be a weekend job removing the motor to fix the rear main and i want to put a torque converter in while I'm there. It was a great plan but it keeps getting moved to the back burner over other fixes such as blown tires alternators A/C compressor locked up headlight wiring failure and other just generally annoying little problems. Sorry for the little rant...

 

I do thank you for the help and time you have put into showing me stuff and looking up links and things. I need to trade my geo for another jeep so i have two and can give this one a break and fix it lol.

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You don't have to remove the engine to replace the rear main seal. It's a 2-piece seal. You can drop the oil pan, remove the rear bearing cap, punch out (carefully) the old upper half and snake the new piece in there with the engine in the vehicle.

 

It's a MUCH easier job if you use the one-piece oil pan gasket for the new (95+ engines rather than the old three-piece set. Don't worry if they tell you it won't fit -- it does.

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hmmm...

 

A few people i talked to about it said that it wouldn't have enough clearance to remove the oil pan or at least get it far enough out of the way to change the seal and put the new gasket on ?

 

Either way i still have to separate the transmission and go through all that for the torque converter. I'm still trying to baby it along a little till i have the time to just do it all at once and be done with it.

 

I looked in the projects/write up's section and didnt see anything about it but my search engine for the forum has decided its not in the mood to work either tonight lol when nothing seems to work its time for bed...

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I'd replace the CPS sensor, they don't cost much, and I'd bet thats the cause of your starting problem.

 

As for the oil pan/rear seal.

it is a PAIN!

You'll need to raise the vehicle, and support the frame, AND support the front axle

then you need to disconnect the stearing stablizer, and the front shocks where they mount to the front axle, then lower the front axle, (this gives about an extra inch of clearance to take out the pan).

THEN you can unbolt the oil pan.

once the oil pan is lowered some, you can then reach inside and disconnect the oil pump, (two bolts).

at this point you will finally have enough room to squeeze the oil pan out, some force might be required, (I kicked it and cursed alot).

REALLY it's a pain to do it.

I made the mistake of NOT replacing the rear main seal,, so'll I'll be doing mine again soon.

and yes the one piece gasket, (available from NAPA), fits just fine,,

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hmmm...

 

A few people i talked to about it said that it wouldn't have enough clearance to remove the oil pan or at least get it far enough out of the way to change the seal and put the new gasket on ?

You aren't talking to Jeep people. The rear main seal in my '88 XJ was changed in the vehicle -- no lift. I know several people from NAXJA who have done it ... including a few who also replaced all the rod bearings ... with the engine in the vehicle. Yes, it can be done.

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Well I'm glad to know it can be done with the motor still in the truck. That will help make it go by a little faster then pulling the motor all the way out. I do have the one peace oil pan gasket for it. i didnt ask for it special but thats what the parts store had and gave me. They are pretty good about crossing parts over down there so i usually don't worry. If it came from Autozone or Advance Auto i would have worried lol.

 

Thanks for the info again.

 

I'm hoping to get all this stuff done this weekend IF nothing else breaks first lol.

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hmmm...

 

A few people i talked to about it said that it wouldn't have enough clearance to remove the oil pan or at least get it far enough out of the way to change the seal and put the new gasket on ?

You aren't talking to Jeep people. The rear main seal in my '88 XJ was changed in the vehicle -- no lift. I know several people from NAXJA who have done it ... including a few who also replaced all the rod bearings ... with the engine in the vehicle. Yes, it can be done.

 

X2 All the shops I talked to told me a 4-6hr job and they had to pull the tranny and all this BS and I told no they don't but they said well it's what the book says and quoted me out around $500 bucks so I went and bought the gasket and went and did it myself. Just jack her up hi and took the calibers off the wheel, like a brake pad job, and lowered the axle. Had no problem getting the pan out. took me 6 hrs and this was my first time and just getting into working on the jeep or any car period, beside a oil job which I had messed up my fist time as well thinking I could drain the oil from the oil filter. :oops:

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I'm going to give it a try this weekend. You guys have done it before and the shop I'm working in has an overhead hoist so i figure the worst it could possibly get is having to also take one or both of the motor mounts loose to get that extra inch. thats a worst case kind of idea though. The bad news is the torque converter i was waiting on still hasn't arrived at the trans shop where i ordered it....

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Yea.......I've been slipping up......darn day job keeps me busy too :cry:

 

GoJeep has a little better write up on how to change the RMS and the oil pan gasket......at least I think it is :D Color pictures too ;)

 

http://gojeep.willyshotrod.com/HowtoRearMain.htm

 

One thing, you don't have to, but if your taking the tranny down for another reason......it is a lot easier to change out the RMS and the oil pan gasket.

 

And after your done with that, another problem area is the oil filter adapter and the front timing chain gasket and harmonic balancer seal.......Oh.....and the Valve cover gasket.

 

http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/Eng ... -Rings.htm

 

Thanks for covering for me Chico :yes:

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