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Ignition key was six tumblers, doors and glove box key was five. I had the ignition key, but not the door key. It was an 87 MJ, and for sure the glove box had one tumbler less than the doors. I remember being so proud of myself, cutting the key for the glovebox, working it till the action was absolutely perfect, then :fs1: :fs2: :wall: when it did not work at all in the doors. I figured one, or both locks/doors/glovebox door had been changed, till I opened up the door lock, and saw it was exactly the same, except for having one extra tumbler (keyed the same as the glovebox, except for the extra tumbler). YMMV, but you're making me think about pulling the cylinder out of a spare glovebox door to check my sanity. :D The glove box lock may use four tumblers instead of five, but the same key operates the door locks and the glove box, and it's a five-bit key. The ignition key is a six-bit key. :thumbsup: Thanks Eagle.

Ignition key was six tumblers, doors and glove box key was five. I had the ignition key, but not the door key. It was an 87 MJ, and for sure the glove box had one tumbler less than the doors. I remember being so proud of myself, cutting the key for the glovebox, working it till the action was absolutely perfect, then :fs1: :fs2: :wall: when it did not work at all in the doors. I figured one, or both locks/doors/glovebox door had been changed, till I opened up the door lock, and saw it was exactly the same, except for having one extra tumbler (keyed the same as the glovebox, except for the extra tumbler). YMMV, but you're making me think about pulling the cylinder out of a spare glovebox door to check my sanity. :D

This reminds me, it's a long shot, but if you have the original owners manual, look to see if the original owner wrote down the key codes. Original keys had codes stamped on the key ring part of the key (section that gets punched out to put the key on a key ring). Sometimes these numbers got written down on Pg 1 of the owners manual by the original owners.

I got an MJ without keys once. I thought I was smart, and pulled the glove box lock to home-cut a key (key blank + file & patience). :doh: I did not realize they use one less tumbler in the glove box lock (if the doors use 5, the glove box only uses 4 of them, I forget the exact number now). I ended up prying the chrome cover off the door lock cylinder to access the tumblers, and cut the key from that. First one I did looked bad, but with practice, I was able to remove & replace the chrome cap without completely killing it. Get a comfortable seat, a good, small file, and a blank key, you'll have replacement keys in no time. :yes:

I have heard some VERY credible claims of factory model 20 rears in early XJ's. I have never seen one. The parts books do not list it, but I believe. :yes:

CJ model 20's sometimes used torx bolts. MJ M20 all got 4.10's, so if your diff cover looks like a pith helmet, it should have 4.10's. Other than the M20's, 1986 was a weird year, even the factory literature doesn't specify what combo's got which gears. :dunno:

I took it as a light hearted poke at him, but the guy is an AMC/Jeep encyclopedia :bowdown: :smart: . I had to reply to it. :wavey:

Pat Foster is a genuinely great guy, with an amazing wealth of AMC/Jeep knowledge. I'll give the benefit of the doubt that he knows when Jeep 'started' (especially since the book documents it), and has some other reason for not including the early data in his sales numbers. edit, Pat's a local guy, and his knowledge has been a huge help to the hobby: http://www.oldemilfordpress.com/pat-foster.shtml I haven't been to an AMC show in years, but he would always be there with his table, personally selling, and signing books.

Mike, this is the "production numbers" thread, not the "if you could have any Jeep thread" ;) Good choices tho. :cheers: I just want something old, with barn doors on back (delivery Waggy, or Willys), something 327 AMC powered, and something with a drop top (CJ6 would be nice). I wouldn't mind a Mighty Mite to zip around in tho (yeah, I know it's an AMC, but not a Jeep :D )

The ZJ was the biggest intro ever for Jeep, and by far outsold the XJ. Mostly because, by building the brand new state of the art "Jefferson Assembly Plant" for ZJ's, they had the production capability to match the demand.

More numbers: Total Jeep SALES for calender years: 1946 44,464 1947 73,219 1948 97,892 1949 61, 341 1950 58,566 1951 50,341 1952 61,372 (includes Willys cars) 1953 60,145 (includes Willys cars) 1954 34,535 (includes Willys cars) 1955 33,519 (includes Willys cars) 1956 23,488 1958 22,005 1959 30,626 1960 31,385 1961 32,644 1962 30,426 1963 44,339 1964 44,385 1965 42,415 1966 42,860 1967 39,757 1968 38,486 1969 36,017 1970 33,984 1971 35,925 1972 50,926 1973 68,227 1974 96,835 1975 85,111 1976 107,487 1977 124,843 1978 163,548 1979 145,214 1980 77,853 1981 63,275 1982 63,761 1983 82,140 1984 153,801 1985 181,389 1986 207,514 1987 208,440 1988 253,454 1989 249,170 1990 196,863 1991 177,775 1992 268,724 1993 408,323 1994 436,445 1995 426,628 1996 509,183 1997 472,872 You can see the drops with the economy, and the new model bumps (XJ in 84, and ZJ in 93.). I pulled this out of a book (Pat Foster's "The Story of Jeep") written in 97, so that's why it ends there.

Renault Chairman George Besse was the last guy at Renault still pulling for AMC. When he was murdered in 1986, Renault started looking for a buyer. Chrysler agreed to a deal in March 1987, and closed the deal in August 1987. The American Motors Corporation ceased to exist at that moment. 1988 still gets lumped in as an AMC year by many, because Chrysler, for the most part, left well enough alone for 88', and all the old paperwork still had AMC plastered all over it. But AMC was gone. I was driving a sht brown on sht brown 74 Javelin AMX in 87, and I can still remember AMC dying. :( The Eagle Division seems to me more like an expensive way for Chrysler to taper off the last remnants of AMC, while fulfilling the import obligation contracts signed by AMC.

The 4.0L was AMC, Chryco took over in 1987.

He was running a 401 last time I saw him post here. :thumbsup: :cheers: :clapping: :banana: :yes:

I was thinking about the whole Comanche-Dakota thing as I was behind a Mitsubishi Raider this morning in traffic. First of all, yes, yes it is a very ugly truck. :ack: but for Mother Mopar to strip their Jeep dealers of their ability to sell pickup trucks (by killing the J10 J20 & Comanche, without replacing them with something else) then turn around and build Dakota clones for Mitsu.... I'd be :fs1: if I was a Jeep dealer watching 4x4 pickups flying out the doors at other dealers, and having nothing to offer life long, die hard Jeep customers looking for one. What should the dealer say, "oh, I hear Mitsubishi has a pretty nice line of mid sized trucks for sale." :rant:

I did bring other brands into the discussion, but it was only to say that more doesn't always = better. AMC & Jeep both suffered, and prospered due to their lack of body updates. And the AMC production numbers were be across the board, for total production @ both Kenosha & Brampton. Yes, if AMC had devoted total production, at both plants to a single model, they could have hit the numbers Ford did for their Explorer (maybe), but without variety, you're probably not going to get the dealership traffic you need to actually sell them. That was Ford's other edge, a much stronger dealer network. I don't know how my tone comes through, but obviously the XJ was a far more marketable product, and the FSJ stuck around way longer than it would have under just about any other brand name, but both were the innovators in their markets, and forced the big three to change direction to keep up. That tells me they were doing something right with both lines. :yes:

Hands down, in the battle of numbers, the XJ wins. FWIW, the ZJ crushed all XJ records when it came out, and the Explorer destroyed the ZJ's numbers. Since they were selling every one they could build, ZJ & Explorer numbers had more to do with production capacity than anything else. No other Jeep line could touch the production numbers the brand new ZJ plant could put out. And Ford had 1.5x's that capability for Explorers. But I'd still take a tastefully built FSJ over any of those .

:yes: Your "Chrysler Encyclopedia" reference made me think of the 'Standard Catalog of Trucks'. Here's hoping the official Chrysler version is much much much more detailed. :cheers:

Those tires are old school Micky Thompson bias plys. Size? Huge x ginormous. :yes:

Hopefully some Chrysler exec will take pity on us (you ;) ), and shower us with previously unknown Comanche facts. :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

I just pulled out "The Standard Catalog of American Trucks", and it lists the median income of the AVERAGE Grand Wagoneer owner as $91,000. In 1987. :eek: They built 15,000 of them that year. 1984: 22,536 1985: 9,010 1986: 16,252 1987: 15,000 1988: 16,228 1989: 12,345 1990: 6,810 1991: 3,704 I don't know if this helps my argument one way, or the other, just thought it was interesting. :thumbsup:

Rob's thread had me thinking about "The Standard Catalog of American Light Duty Trucks" (3rd edition 1896-2000). Though I haven't looked at it in years, this book has the published production numbers for thousands of trucks............ But just the raw basics for us. :( 1986: 45,219 1987: 28,417 1988: 46,389 1989: 28,891 1990: 10,804 (38.7% 4x4's) 1991: 7,009 (36.7% 4x4's) 1992: 2,970 (41.9% 4x4's) Are these the same numbers that have already been posted? Also, under historical data 1986, it says: "Other names considered for the compact pickup were Renegade, Commando, Wrangler, and Honcho" I think Renegade would've been pretty cool. :yes: :yes: and under historical data 1992, it says: "The last Comanche was assembled in Toledo on May 18th 1992." Is that within the few day range that some here seem to have narrowed it down to?

You know what FSJ's were still the best of the best at, even as the last 29 year old Grand Waggy rolled off the assembly line? Profit margin. The Grand Waggy's had far, and away the greatest profit margin of any American made vehicle of that time, since all the tooling had been paid for while most of the people building it were still in diapers. Also interesting is that the Chrysler executives were the ones who fought to keep it as long as they did. Seems, even though it was outdated, underpowered, and a gas guzzler (all true), it was by far the most requested executive vehicle in Chrysler's line up. It must have been doing something right. :thumbsup:

My D44 backing plates had huge holes that the E-brake cable ends didn't even come close to locking in to. I thought it was because I was using D35 cables, but the D44's old cable ends (that the salvage yard torched off) also fit loosely. I got a couple stainless washers that were bigger than the hole, but small enough to lock in the cable end. I'd like to tell you how great it works, but the axle is still on my bench. What gear ratio did you go with? If you went with 4.10's, you know factory TJ Rubicon gears were thick 4.10's, to fit the 3 series carrier. (= thick 4.10 take off Rubi gears are usually cheaper than new thick 4.10's)

Lets review: WAY way (way!) ahead of their time in 1963 when introduced. Clean sheet of paper build (nothing held over from the Willys PU's) It's actually amazing that an independent manufacturer with the most dated pickup truck design in the industry could trump the big 3, and introduce the most modern, state of the art truck available. Original low ride height/high ground clearance truck Designed as a 4wd vehicle first and foremost (not tacked on like other trucks of the time) Kaiser years: First production IFS 4wd (though short lived) First production OHC in a truck (though poor in execution, as with the IFS, just too far ahead of it's time) First auto 4x4 pickup Available with 232 6, 327 & 350 V8's, and everything in between. Factory DRW Stake side = AMC years: First full time 4wd automatic Pickup First luxury 4x4 pickup with available PW/PL/AC/tilt/cruise etc etc. Available bare bones, or chromed out. Everything from vinyl bench to leather buckets to Levi interiors. With a 258/3spd, a 401 TH400, or anything in between. Biggest strikes against J trucks are: no D60 fts (other than the M715) They kept closed knuckle/drum brake ft axles & narrow ft springs through the 1973 MY. They didn't have the $$ to invest in new sheetmetal in 10 year cycles like they should have (tho this is a plus if you want to put a 63' Rhino Chaser grill on a 1991 Grand Waggy.) Biggest plus's are: almost 30 years of interchangeability the early stuff is beyond cool the 70's 80's stuff can still be found at reasonable price it's all Jeep, straight through to the bone :cheers: Random Ebay J trucks, Both Vigilante 327 V8 4wd's First one three on the tree http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Jeep-J30 ... sQ5fTrucks Second one has a factory AC, auto, leather & overdrive (according to seller anyway): http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Jeep-Gla ... sQ5fTrucks Sorry for all the obsession, but I LOVE me some first gen J-truck especially with the small rear window & a Gen I AMC V8. :yes: :cheers: :yes: :cheers: