gogmorgo

There’s also spray-on sound deadening products that would work quite nicely under a bedliner. I’ve got what I’m pretty sure is factory vinyl floor in my short bed. It still has the jute underneath it so it didn’t stop the floorboards from rusting out. Interestingly if I’m driving through puddles now I find it somehow accumulates puddle water on top of the vinyl. But I do for sure not care as much if a drink gets spilled... and they do because no cup holders.

Talk to an auto glass shop. I had a pair cut for my Lada for $20 by a local guy.

I like the 2x4 “fix”. I have the same issue with it stripping out at the bottom, and used a zip-tie through a convenient hole in the track. This worked great up until a roommate decided they didn’t like where the window stopped and just pushed harder when they felt resistance. Fortunately they only snapped the zip-tie and didn’t manage to wreck anything else.

Precision heat. Before you start cutting, get the bolts hot and then try to spin them out. Doesn’t need to be glowing hot, but it does need to be hotter than propane will get it. If you can’t get a tool onto them, clean up the bolt heads really well and weld a nut onto them. The heat from welding may even be enough to help bust things loose.

A saturated carpet will plug up your ventilated floor pans when it freezes. Not ideal either.

Yeah, mine does. Came in my ‘91 long bed. Don’t know if it’s original to the truck though or not.

Strictly referring to the relays within the “upgrade” harness. Yes. I’d be more inclined to install and repin a weatherpack, but that’s just me. I should maybe add that I’m not just trying to manage the one MJ with the hacked apart harness. The first one I want to do is completely stock with no relay harness in it, so I’ll be building that harness first to be a simple plug-and-play setup. The other truck has unfortunately been sitting unregistered in the back of the yard at work for the last couples years without a ton of progress being made on getting it back on the road, and I don’t anticipate that changing much until I get some of the other projects I've got that I can actually legally drive out of the way first. I’m reasonably confident what I’ve got should work. As a bit of an experiment on the drive to work this morning I shut the headlights off with the high beams on, and there was a split second interval between the lights shutting off and coming back on as DRL. I’m thinking that should cure any sort of hold-in problem I might encounter, meaning it would really just be down to adding a resistor to the switching circuit on the off chance that 5V would be enough to make it buzz or something, which at this point I kinda doubt.

This is literally what we’ve been discussing the whole time, trying to avoid switching a relay with 5V. It can definitely be done. Considering I’m building a relay harness, yeah, that’s part of it. None of the relays I’ve had in my diagrams up to this point have been part of the truck harness.

Again, not an option I want to explore. It would work just fine, but I don’t want to tap into any part of the harness other than the truck socket and battery, same as the “normal” relay harness.

I’m not entirely certain if this is what you were getting at, but I’ve revised my diagram again based on it. It does simplify the circuit by entirely removing the DRL relay, which is nice. I’m going to build this latest without the resistor on the high beam switching circuit intially, just to see what happens. The parts store in town carries Bosch relays, and when looking up a data sheet, I see an operating range of 8-16V, so in theory they won’t switch with DRL. In theory...

That’s pretty clearly a front driveshaft, even though it says “rear”. Not only is the photo of a front driveshaft, the fact they claim it fits the Cherokee as well demonstrates that it’s a front driveshaft. The XJ and MJ have very different wheelbases, so the rear driveshaft is not interchangeable. Unless you can find one someone else had built, you’re more than likely going to need one custom built. You can probably find a driveline shop somewhat local to you that will do a nice job, either modifying the one you have or building an entirely new one from scratch. There are also a couple places online that will custom build you one. They’ll be able to tell you how they need it measured for your specific truck setup.

Are you asking if I can take the 5V signal directly off the DRL module instead of picking it up at the headlight socket? This would work, but one of my goals is to avoid tapping into more of the vehicle harness than just the headlight sockets, which does complicate things a bit.

The resistor really is starting to seem like the easiest and simplest answer. It’s effectively what I was trying to accomplish with the zener. Or at least what I was ending up accomplishing. But now we’re back into me not being 100% on how to properly spec electronic components, so I’m going to run this by you to see if it seems correct. I’m probably overthinking things a lot. A typical automotive relay can be expected to draw somewhere between 100 and 200 mA, usually closer to the former. Measuring from headlight socket to battery ground with engine running gave me 13.5V drop. A resistor that gives me a 4V drop will put me in the neighbour hood of 9.5V, which should be enough to trigger the relays. At 0.1A, that’s a 40Ω resistor. If however the relay is pulling 0.2A, that resistor is going to give me an 8V drop, which is not ideal. So I should be planning for in the middle of that somewhere? Assume 0.15A, spec a 30Ω resistor to give me a drop of between 3 and 6V across the resistor? Most relays I remember measuring current draw on the switch circuit have been in the neighborhood of 0.12A, so I think that would be a fairly safe option. Am I correct in assuming that the 30Ω resistor will still provide a ~3V drop when presented with a 5V source, or will the relay continue to act as the bigger voltage drop in the circuit, and proportionally decrease the voltage drop across the resistor, so I’d only end up with a ~1.1V drop on DRL mode, so I might want to go back to a bigger resistor after all? Also when choosing a power rating, am I looking at dissipated heat (calculating with voltage dropped across resistor) or total circuit power, (total system voltage)? This definitely would work, but I’m liking the simplicity of the resistor method above. Likely cheaper and less daunting for a beginner to reproduce.

Some circuit diagrams so we’re all on the same page: I’m sure we can all agree this is what a basic supplemental relay harness looks like: The power that the factory used to illuminate the headlights is now being used only to trigger a pair of relays that unload the vehicle circuits. Ideally you’d really want ground-side switching to reduce arcing and extend the life of the relays, but the circuit works reliably enough, and while I did lose one of my relays, it was a used one I pulled at a junkyard anyhow so I can’t really blame the circuit on it. This is the proposed addition to allow for DRL that function as set up by the factory: With key on (truck in motion) and headlights off, the truck’s high beam circuit will see 5V. The DRL relay in the normally closed position will allow that 5V to flow through it and directly to the high beam circuit. With the low beams are switched on, the high beam circuit and DRL relay will see 0V, so no the normally closed relay will send 0V through to the high beam circuit and they won’t come on. Once the high beams are switched on, the DRL relay will see 12V from the truck’s high beam circuit, and switch the DRL relay, which will then in turn send the 12V through to the high beam relay, triggering it to switch on the headlights. I like this circuit. It’s simple, low cost, parts are readily available, and it would be easy for someone with a very basic knowledge of vehicle electrical systems to build and install, much like the basic relay harnesses most of us use. The big glaring issue with this circuit design is that you need the DRL relay that absolutely will not trigger with 5V, and that will absolutely release if for some reason the headlights are switched off while the high beams are on (and voltage to the DRL relay drops from 12 to 5V instead of to 0V like if you were just to switch from high to low beam). It would be nice to have some sort of voltage blocker in the starred circuit to stop the DRL relay from triggering at DRL voltage, which is what my hangup is. I know that most relays won’t trigger with 5V, but some will and it would be nice to guarantee it won’t happen somehow. Yes. As soon as you turn on the headlights with the dash switch, the DRL module stops doing it’s thing. IIRC it might get its signal from the dimmer (high beam/low beam) switch somehow, but I’d have to go back to the circuit diagram. The DRL module is also in communication with a bunch of stuff. I don’t remember how it operates on my automatic, but on my manual MJ it won’t actually turn on until the vehicle starts moving. I had to lift the rear axle off the ground and put it in gear before I could actually measure anything. But I’d like to eliminate vehicle-specific wiring as a variable. Part of what I’d like to achieve is a system that isn’t vehicle specific. The XJ/MJ share the same DRL module with the TJ, YJ, ZJ, and SJ. Lots of Chrysler vehicles use a very similar voltage step-down for their DRL circuits, and I’m pretty sure Ford does as well, unless they’re doing what a lot of Japanese manufacturers did back in the ‘90s and had a bunch of relays to switch the high beams to run in series, which comes with its own set of issues. It’s also been suggested that I just use some relays to turn on low beams or parking lights, but again then we’re tapping into extra vehicle circuits. I’ve thought about this too, but this moves away from simple and easily reproducible by someone else with very basic understanding of vehicle electric systems and minimal equipment. I also don’t know what it would cost. One of the other big advantages of the basic relay harness is that it’s a great beginner project for someone to learn how to start adding additional lighting circuits to a vehicle the proper way, and I feel like running an Arduino or similar isn’t necessarily the way to go there.

Modern pop music is pretty obnoxious like that. Not often much meaning, not much depth. Some of it has artistic elements, some not so much. But like mass-market lagers, it’ll still get you drunk if you drink enough, so I guess it gets the job done. Maybe. I wouldn’t know, I quit paying attention a good ten or fifteen years ago.

I’ve never studied electronics. Basic level electrical physics before I dropped out of university, but we didn’t play around with anything much more than lightbulbs and other resistors. Going through mechanic classes they introduced us to a bunch of components, but we didn’t go very in depth on actual circuit design. Learning to measure breakdown voltage of the zener was about it, and we definitely didn’t see them used for what I was trying to do. I was kinda wondering about using a zener initially, so then when Omega suggested it so quickly I kinda jumped on it, cause that’s what I was already wanting to do. I’ll have to dig into relay choice a bit more I guess. I still would like to be able to walk into any parts store anywhere and grab an off-the-shelf component if the relay ever fails, which is why it would be nice to have some sort of voltage blocker in place. Using a simple off-the-shelf resistor to bump the voltage down a bit would work, but with variability of parts-store relays it might be interesting choosing a resistance that works with most of the relays out there. I’m also not excited about a hold-in voltage below 5V, given on the off chance the head lights are switched off with high beams on, then the DRL voltage might be enough to keep the relay latched so you’ll just have high beams on full up until you either shut the truck off or turn the low beams back on... Correct? I’m still kinda hoping to keep it as a supplemental harness, with the same idea as the “regular” relay harness, something you just add in between your headlights and their sockets, without having to splice into other harnesses just to make it work. The more complicated you make the thing, the less likely anyone’s ever going to choose to use it over having a simple but non-compliant vehicle and “just turn on the low beams”. I really would like to be able to say “build this very basic relay circuit, attach these to battery and these to your headlight sockets and plug in your bulbs”, same as the original.

Digging into zener diodes a bit more, I’m no longer entirely convinced it’s the way to go. What it looks like is that yes, they will block voltage below the reverse breakdown voltage, but it also looks like they will also have a reasonably consistent voltage drop of that same voltage. So, say you put one with a breakdown voltage of 6V in series with the control circuit of a relay, it won’t allow current to pass through until the voltage across it hits 6V, but in the 13.5V circuit, that leaves 7.5V to trigger the relay. This could feasibly happen given I’ve seen reports of 12V relays switching with as little as 4V, but all reports indicate you want at least 9V on your switch circuit to ensure reliability. The other obstacle is now that I’ve figured out how to filter the search results on Mouser, (seriously, @#$% defaulting to low-feature mobile sites) is that it seems most of the options are for relatively low-power circuits, PCBs and such, so there are very few options that will hold the current necessary to operate an automotive relay. On the other hand, it makes choosing something easier. It should however be possible to use a 6V automotive relay coupled with a ~6.5V 3W Zener diode. Current would be blocked with the DRL on 5V, but once it jumps up to full nominal 12V high beam, you’d still have ~7V to reliably switch the 6V relay. And given the 6V relay will only be switching another relay and not really carrying substantial load, I don’t anticipate running 12V through the load circuit would cause any problems. Except there’s a little bit of doubt there, especially considering half the point of the relay harness is to stop the truck from catching fire...

That’s basically the idea I think. I’ll have to put together a circuit diagram tonight. I’d like to get a zener diode in there though to absolutely guarantee the relay won’t trigger on 5V. I could also probably put a resistor in to knock down the voltage to below triggering voltage on the relay, but that’s a bit messier of a solution in my mind. My only hold-up at this point is I don’t know where to start sourcing a zener diode... go to a place like Mouser, and you get 50,000 results ranging in cost from fractions of cents to hundreds of dollars, and I really have no idea what I’m looking for. I feel I need to explain my aversion to LED headlights. I’ve never been happy in a vehicle with them. It’s as if they’re too bright. You meet them oncoming and you lose all night vision. In the vehicle, you can’t see anything where they’re not illuminating. The better ones are brighter and more focused with better cutoffs, but that almost makes it worse. They’re totally okay if you live somewhere well-illuminated, but I live in a national park that also happens to be the world’s second largest dark-sky preserve. When it’s overcast at night, you can barely even see your hand in front of your face. I’ve got two vehicles running e-codes, and it’s the same issue. I don’t even catch eye shine outside of my beams, which is an issue with these guys running around all over the place: (this was just now, across the street from my house) I also finally got the ecodes on my zj aimed to where I’m not getting flashed by oncoming traffic or blinding myself with the glare off street signs, and now I can’t see far enough down the road for the low beams to be useful. I had to drive ~100 miles in a snowstorm a couple weeks ago, and it was pretty brutal... can’t run high beams in the snow, can’t see far enough with low beams, so now it’s going back to stock SAE headlights. I also can’t see much going around tight corners or through dips, which we have a few of in the mountains here. LEDs also don’t like getting the 5V from the DRL module. Most people report them flickering pretty badly until they switch on headlights. The stock sealed beams on my MJs, even without the relay harness, may seem pretty dim in contrast (especially without the relay harness), to ecodes or LED lights, but I can still actually see everything I need to, which is much more important in my mind. At least, I can see everything up until I meet someone oncoming with cheap, badly focussed, poorly aimed LED lights...

1. LED headlights are trash. They REALLY don’t play nice with DRL, either. 2. The weakest point is the switch itself. The high load with the switch on the positive side of the circuit leads to arcing and burnt contacts, burnt contacts conduct poorly and get HOT. If the switch was on the ground side, it would last a lot longer as voltage is much lower after the headlights so it won’t arc as much. Poor grounds are crappy and will make your lights dim, but they won’t set your truck on fire. I used 14awg for the switching curcuit of my harness, but only as far as the factory connector. Load side is 10awg. The wires on the truck side of the connector weren’t in bad shape so I spliced in to them. It wouldn’t be that big a deal to go back to factory. All it would take is finding another harness and connector, which I’m pretty sure I already have in my parts hoard. Mostly it’s just that I don’t want to go to the trouble of doing it just to undo it again after the inspection to make it non-compliant. I’d rather just deal with it once. Driving around in a non-compliant vehicle also isn’t a great look for me, professionally.

For someone wanting to add DRL to an MJ that doesn’t already have them, maybe. But both my MJs already have them. I’m trying to build a supplementary relay harness that won’t disable them.

This is probably one of the best things about having a CD player in your vehicle. When I’m just playing music off my phone I usually tend to hit “shuffle all”, cause I’m probably driving at the time and digging through menus to choose something is a little more eyes-off-the-road than I can manage. But shove a CD in and you realize you don’t have sudden shifts in mood, energy, or odd jumps in volume, or any of that weird stuff that you don’t want to get rid of but you never actually want to listen to. The album just flows. And while some albums may just be a collection of songs, quite a few are arranged to tell a story that adds extra depth and meaning to the songs that you don’t get at all once you pull the song out of that context. One of my favourite albums for that reason is American Idiot. It’s pretty easy to dismiss most of the songs as clichéed teen rage and angst like a lot of Green Day is, but once you put them all together they become a surprisingly relatable coming-of-age story about search for meaning in the struggle of life. There’s definitely better music and better albums out there, but it still surprises me how well put together that particular album is, and how compelling the story is. It even got itself turned into a musical.

Not really the same thing. Also, as much as I respect Don’s memory, I really have to disagree with his comments on this thread in regards to European headlights. I just bought some new DOT housings for my ZJ to replace the ECE lights I put in a couple years ago. They have their advantages, but I’m getting pretty sick of not being able to see much of anything with the low beams.

Only if it’s “Canada-spec”. A bit further north than California. Daytime running lights were an option on US-market vehicles, but probably unlikely. I don’t honestly know if they are a requirement in any jurisdiction outside of Canada.

Basically I need the 5V to toggle the 5V going through to the light, and the 12V to toggle the 12V, but coming from the same wire and going to the same wire, but pulling the 12V from another source. This is kinda the direction I was thinking, using the no/nc pins. If you took a standard automotive relay: You’d have 87A hooked to the truck’s headlight socket high beam, and 30 going to the harness’s high beam socket. 87 goes to battery. Switching then becomes the obstacle. If you can guarantee the relay won’t switch with 5V, all you’d need to do is ground 86 and tie 85 to 87A, but to foolproof it you’d want a zener diode in there, probably with a breakdown voltage in the range of six to eight volts. That last part is where my talent runs out. I don’t know how to spec and source a zener diode that will work. I guess I should’ve included that in my original post. I don’t have good access to an electronics store, and the online suppliers have so many diodes that it’s overwhelming trying to sift through tens of thousands of results to find one that would work, even if I’m not looking for perfect, just something that does what I want. I also got stuck somehow thinking that the above setup would leave the lights on when the truck is off or with the low beams, and only just realized while writing that out that when the high beams are seeing 0V, so would everything else involved, so I guess that’s a non-issue. I know that it would probably work without the zener diode in there, given the relays I bought for my harness won’t switch with 5V, but I want to be able to have a write-up that is guaranteed to work no matter what relay gets sourced by the person involved. I also don’t want to run the risk of a relay that doesn’t switch with 5V having its spring weaken over time and then start switching with no one realizing except oncoming traffic. It’s better not to rely on the accidental functions of a device, at least in my mind.

I’ve noticed that my bucket seat squeaks when it’s back all the way. Either the seat or headrest contacts either the cab wall trim or the window. I just set the recline a little more upright so it wasn’t touching, and Bob’s your auntie. Of course that won’t help if the squeak is the slider rattling in it’s frame, but it’s worth a shot.