gogmorgo

http://www.fuelly.com/car/jeep/comanche Of the three 4-cyl MJ's there, 20.6, 18.0, 20.0. The two 20's are 2wd, don't have any other info for the 18.

Well, when I pulled it apart this morning, the pin tube that goes through the steering wheel broke again. Guess the epoxy didn't like sticking to the plastic at 0F. So I brought the pieces inside and JB welded them after they warmed up. Skel130, I'm thinking you may be right about the different sized springs. When trying to put it back together, I managed to bend the lock plate with the lock plate tool before getting the plate down far enough to get the clip on it. Since I'd already broken the plastic cam, I figured I'd try trimming it down a bunch instead of trimming the spring. As it was, I was only a couple mm shy of getting the clip on. Also, found a diagram online. The plastic cam I keep talking about is part #6. The pin that goes in that tube parts 12,13, 14) is what Hornbrod's refering to. It's that plastic tube that I managed to break. Also missing was the pin that contacts the brass ring on the back of the plastic disk. I thought briefly about taking the spring (part #7) from the XJ at the yard, and then didn't. If this doesn't work, I might have to go back and get it. I've also thought about making my life easier and leaving out the plastic disk like the PO did, and going to the other style of pin and connector, but there are a couple nubs on the plastic disk that I think are what is cancelling the turn signals, and I kinda like the cancelling thing. Although I'm not entirely liking the whole JBweld fix thing.

Are you saying your front driveshaft isn't turning while you're in 2wd or in 4wd? Cause even with an unlocked CAD, it should be turning in 4x4.

Bit of a long drive... although flights are always cheap. I'd like to go some day, but this year is not that year.

Yeah. As much as I enjoyed this the first time, I almost certainly would have enjoyed the second time more if it had been a year from now. But I guess he could spark the interest of some locals who haven't seen the XJ ad...

So I emailed a mechanic buddy last night when I got home and he just replied. And told me to pick up one of these: http://www.amazon.com/Powerbuilt-648466-Steering-Wheel-Removal/dp/B004KED7RU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1319157017&sr=8-1 My first reaction: OH MY GOD THAT THING LOOKS AMAZING!!! :bowdown: There's definitely something to be said for having the right tools for the job. Guess who's getting a new toy today :)

Well, it was just below 0F last night when I was putting her back together in a dark parking lot at school so I could drive home, and I wasn't wearing gloves, so I'm going to say that's why I managed to forget to put the spring back in there without realizing that it wasn't there. Found it in my footwell when I parked at home last night. Something's catching when I turn the wheel, so I'm going to have to tear into her again to put the spring back. I'm starting to think that maybe the horn cam was left out because someone couldn't get that spring in there with it in. There are quite a few things I've noticed with this truck where it seems someone said "@#$% it, good enough" and it's kinda making me angry at whoever it was. But it's really driving me to make sure things go back together properly... But on the plus side, somehow the way things are back together now, the turn signals are auto-cancelling. Which is kinda awesome. They've never done that for me.

By special stores, do you mean like a government liquor control board or something like that? That's the way it works in the two Canadian provinces I've lived in most recently. Although most bars can legally sell as offsale. But it's always expensive. Typically about 2-2.5 times what prices are like in the US.

All I can say is that this is almost exactly what we've got on the racecars we build, although we didn't get some big fancy kit to do it (our switches are smaller and much lighter). Are you saying we're doing it wrong? This looks like a better idea than what I was thinking of.

So all you people who know so well what you're talking about... Well, of the links Hornbrod posted, the second one (without the wire) is what I was missing... but that wasn't all. And that became glaringly obvious when I pulled the button pieces off the XJ at the yard. The picture I posted above is everything that I had in there after pulling off the steering wheel lock plate. Just the turn signal cam &c. So in order of what you remove when getting at this, what I assume should be there (based on the XJ) and what I'm missing. Steering wheel center/horn button - there. Horn button pieces - all there. Steering wheel and retaining nut- there. Plastic piece that covers the steering lock plate - there. Steering lock plate - there Plastic plate where the above horn contact pin sits (with the tube that sticks out through the steering wheel) - The entire thing is missing. Spring - there. Turn signal cam/headlight/wiper switches - mostly all there. Except there's another horn contact pin that goes in the hole I pointed out in the picture above which was missing. This one makes contact with the brass ring on the plastic plate that I was missing. So I pulled everything I was missing from the XJ, and brought it all home. Cost me nothing (the guy behind the counter looked at me funny when I showed him my box full of tiny bits and springs and stuff, and said bye and walked away). When I was putting it back together (that spring is impossible to compress far enough!!!) I managed to break the tube that pokes through the steering wheel, so I'm sitting and waiting for the epoxy to set. I don't wan't to have to go through the process of pulling the snap ring off the steering lock plate (chased that stupid thing around for half an hour at the yard) and then compressing that damn spring again, so I'm hoping the epoxy holds. If not, I'm beginning to suspect it might be easier just to replace the whole column... Lot of effort just for a horn...

So i'm at the yard. The only 3 spoke wheel there is in an 84 xj. Same thing?

This is actually a pretty common mod, especially in tuner circles. Most of the time it's not even fixing something broken, it's just done for the heck of it. Obviously Zebvance knows that it could be easier to steal, but to be fair, most thieves wouldn't automatically assume it's got ignition switches other than the lock cylinder, and thus it might simply perplex them and they'd give up when a screwdriver in the ignition cylinder doesn't do anything. As far as cheap parts go and this being "incorrect", well, I can't speak for the quality of the parts having not seen them, but is it "incorrect" to modify your vehicle?? Why all the negativity?

As promised, here's the pic, although you'll have to forgive the crappy cellphone by flashlight quality... I'd been crawling around under the dash messing with relays and I was getting cold so I was a little shaky. The arrow points to what I think is the hole I'm talking about. Not that you guys need it.

Wow. That was quick. Don't think I even need to worry about posting my pics cause you guys already know what I'm talking about, but I will anyway for anyone else who stumbles across this thread with my issues. When I get home of course. I might have to stop by a parts store on my way home if any are still open, see what they have. I'm pretty sure I know what I'm looking for now. I've got some experience with Chevy horns, but never got below the steering wheel.

So I got cut off this morning, nearly put a Comanche-shaped dent in the side of a Chevy Traverse. Had to climb on to the center median to get out of the totally oblivious guy's way who seemed intent on changing lanes into exactly where I was. But at any rate, this inspired me to take another crack at getting my horn working. A little history: So today I pulled the horn button off, and decided to figure out how it worked. This time, I pulled the steering wheel and the steering lock plate thing off, and noticed a deep round hole in the turn signal switch with a shiny copper contact (looked like some bare wires) at the bottom, as though there should have been a pin of some kind in the hole. I also noticed a small spring caught in the turn signal switch, but no sign of a pin. Sure enough, when I jumped the contacts to ground, the horn beeped. I've got pictures on my phone that I'll post when I get home. So my question is: how does the contact at the bottom of that hole connect to the horn button? Should there be a pin down in that hole and it's spring loaded? Or is that spring part of the turn signal switch return which doesn't work? I'm pretty sure the horn button itself is working, but it's just not connecting anything to anything else. Should there be a wire running to something in the horn button? I've got a '91 4L auto if it makes a difference. If I've got time later this week, I'll likely hit up a jy and see if I can find an unmolested column to compare to.

It just occurred to me that the reason there are two switches is that the protected one is a "power on" (a bit like a kill switch) and only sends power to the other two. The "starter" diagram on page 21 is helpful, but you might want to try the "power distribution" on page 8. Looking at that diagram: You've got five wires at the ignition switch: RED: 12V in Orange: Apparently goes to power windows and the clock? Yellow: Gauges and engine controls DK GRN: The starter signal wire BRN: your horn, interior fan, cigarette lighter, radio, turn signal, wipers... etc. Depending on what you want for "ACC", I'd connect the brown and orange wires to that switch, although it looks like the stock position is just the brown. For "RUN", I'd go orange, yellow, brown. for "START" you want the dark green. You'd of course be taking power to all the positions from the red wire.

I'm a little embarrassed about how emotional I get about that... Gogmorgo is right - precision and clarity do matter (I am sure his professors have drummed that into his head in his studies). That said, in the context it was presented (after adding 7 psi of boost) only pound-feet made sense to "ASSume" as the correct unit. The only dyno I have experience with is the ancient (soon to be replaced) engine dyno we use in our shop, which reads in KW and Nm. I don't remember the make off the top of my head, but I'm thinking it's an American brand. But that said, I was reading through the reports and logs from the experiments with forced induction that the team did five years ago, and boost was always recorded in psi, right next to all the metric data. :dunno: To be honest, it's almost never safe to assume either system is going to be used in Canada.

Yeah, there was a lot of that... but I was procrastinating doing an assignment, so I had lots of patience. ;)

That's exactly it. Sort of. Substitute the fact that I won't be able to sell my MJ in current condition for more that $700 (and it's worth many times that to me), and that gas costs $5/gallon up here... If I could get $2500 for my MJ, I could probably pull it off, but with so many miles on the clock and it basically needing the entire drivetrain redone, well... not really going to happen.

It's a sad moment but I guess it happens to all of us. I've been thinking of selling my MJ to free up a bit of cash, get a beater and save money on fuel, but I don't think I could get enough for my 300,000 mile MJ needing much work to make it worthwhile. Probably the only reason it hasn't happened yet. Just don't let your MJ go to a wrecker.

Deflection is movement, yes, but the pivot point itself isn't turning. Torque is just pushing on something in such a way as to make it spin. Higher torque is pushing harder. If the thing you're trying to spin resists the spinning, then you won't necessarily get movement, but if the resistance is less than the torque, then things move. When you're torquing down a head bolt, you initially torque it to something like 25 ft-lbs. Then the last torque stage is something like 120ft-lbs. You have to push on the wrench a lot harder to apply the 120ft-lbs to the bolt, but are you really turning it any more than you did at 25 ft-lbs? Not really, no. You're just turning it harder, i.e. with more force. Horsepower is a measurement based on how hard the engine is pushing and how quickly it's turning. So you can make a whole bunch of horsepower by pushing a little and spinning really quickly, or you can make the exact same amount of horsepower by pushing really hard and turning really slowly. If you can push really hard and turn really quickly, then you'll make lots of horsepower. :). As a bit of an example of that, the engine in the racecar sitting right behind my computer makes only 35 ft-lbs, but it makes 90 hp because it spins to 15,000rpm. In comparison, the engine in my buddie's Fiero makes something like 130 ft-lbs, but still only makes 90hp because it's only spinning at 4,000 rpm. It's kinda like 3x8=24 but you can also get 24 by doing 6x4=24. If somehow you could get that Iron Duke spinning itself at 15,000 rpm and still making 130 ft-lbs, you'd be looking at roughly 370hp. But I wouldn't want to be anywhere near that engine spinning that fast for fear of my life... Conversely, assuming we're still making 35 ft-lbs in our racecar at 4,000 rpm, we'd be making something like 25 hp. So to sum it up: Torque is how hard you push. Horsepower is a measurement of both how hard and how quickly you push. As an aside, you can increase torque output with lower gears. With low enough gears, you could have that Fiat 500 you mentioned moving the same amount as the older CTD's. You reduce the gears and increase the wheel torque compared to engine torque while keeping the wheel horsepower the same as engine horsepower (minus any losses due to drivetrain inefficiencies). But when the wheel torque goes up, the wheel speed must go down because the power output is constant. So you won't be going anywhere near as fast as you were with the CTD. Going back to our racecar from the example above, even though it's only making 35 ft-lbs at the crank, we've got the original motorcycle transmission attached to the engine and then we're running a 5:1 reduction between there and the rear end. Between that and the fact that the thing weighs all of 600 lbs with a driver in it, we can still hit 60 mph in well under 4 seconds with only 35 ft-lbs of torque.

:soap box: I knew wtq was wheel torque. My point however was that you should always include units with your torque numbers. Just using wtq and quoting a number could mean anything. Yeah, in North America you can generally assume the person is referring to lb-ft and in most cases be correct, but without units, you just have a meaningless number. It's like saying something has a length of "11". 11 whats? Feet? Inches? Meters? Millimeters? Nanometers? Gigameters? Cubits? Stories? Furlongs? Leagues? Chains? Ångströms? Nails? Barleycorns? Fermi? Parsecs? Poppyseeds? Light-years? Hell, Beard-Seconds??? :headpop: See? MEANINGLESS NUMBER!!! The two most used units of torque, pound-feet (lb-ft) and newton-meters (nm) aren't all that close to each other (something like 0.7:1) and I've seen people refer to either as simply "tq" or worse, "torques". I've even seen the same source, in the same context, quoting engine manufacturer outputs willy-nilly, ignoring the fact that they weren't all in the same units and referring to them simply as "torques" and then COMPARING THE TWO AS IF THEY WERE EQUIVALENT!!!! :mad: :thwak: Sorry... pet peave of mine. :oops:

Assuming we're looking at the right numbers, google eventually brought me to this site which I believe says it's from a '91 S10/S15. It's the only place I encountered the FKJ and 2.8L together in reference to a GM engine.

wtf is wtq? lb-ft?

By best guess would be that the protected switch is intended for your "ignition" position, (when you turn the key to "run"), and the other switch is just an extra. On our fsae cars we use two switches on startup, one for the "ignition" and the other for the electric rad fan. We do it that way because the fan draws enough that we won't be able to provide enough current to the starter motor with it running... it's a tiny battery. If you're still running the auto, I suppose you could use it for the neutral safety switch, but I don't really see anything else you'd need it for. I'd just either leave it alone or else find something else to do with it.