WahooSteeler

Praying for the both of you, Godspeed.

I believe the springs are rated 1440lbs for te 4+1s and 1700lbs for the 3+2s. Aftermarket springs vary, I believe Hellcreeks are of the 1400-1500lb variety, Motion Offroad's are HD springs are rated at 1200-1400 I think (not sure), the Alcans that Hornbrod has I believe are factory spec, and another member (TNT or Eagle?) told me about General Spring out of Kansas who has MT packs rated at 1500lbs. If I am correct the total payload rating of 2205lbs should be arrived at by the spring rating, axle rating, and tires, i.e. the springs alone do not equal the payload rating.

Whatchu, my apologies brotha, I "assumed" you were looking for a factory set for less money than aftermarket replacements. I should have asked and could have told you there are a few different mfr's/suppliers for those if you are willing to buy new, which is certainly the way to go if you can. That being said, I'd suggest you send HellCreek (Tom's a member here) a PM, I'd also be curious if they would make up any 3+2s. Don actually got his from another spring shop, so I'll let him fill you in on the details of that. Don, just to add to the wondrous confusion of all this, the MT packs I got were off of an 86 LWB 4x4 w/AMC20 rear, are 4+1 packs, evenly spaced, tapered, and has the friction pads between all of the uppers, so they certainly seem factory. :hmm:

I am pretty sure the more common setup was 4 long and 1 short/overload, but don't hold me to that. I'm sure Hornbrod will pick up on this thread later and he's the most knowledgeable about which style was produced more etc. I'll try to post up some pics of my 4+1's to illustrate the progressive lengths and tapered ends to help identify against a pack you might see with an AAL in there. But if you do see a 3+2 setup, I'm pretty sure they'll be the real thing as opposed to a bastard pack built that way. **Edit, LOL, seems like Don posted while I was typing this post. Don, for some reason I thought you had the 4+1s. Anyway, don't you also have some pics of both styles?

Now the waiting begins until next September. I'll post this up that I got in an email today: LESSONS OF LIFE -- AS TOLD BY FOOTBALL PEOPLE #1. 'Football is only a game. Spiritual things are eternal. Nevertheless, Beat Texas ' Seen on a church sign in Arkansas prior to the 1969 game. #2. 'After you retire, there's only one big event left... and I ain't ready for that.' Bobby Bowden / Florida State #3. 'The man who complains about the way the ball bounces is likely to be the one who dropped it.' Lou Holtz / Arkansas #4. 'When you win, nothing hurts.' Joe Namath / Alabama #5. 'Motivation is simple. You eliminate those who are not motivated.' Lou Holtz / Arkansas #6. 'If you want to walk the heavenly streets of gold, you gotta know the password, 'Roll, tide, roll!' Bear Bryant /Alabama #7. 'A school without football is in danger of deteriorating into a medieval study hall.' Frank Leahy / Notre Dame #8. 'There's nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you.' Woody Hayes / Ohio State #9. 'I don't expect to win enough games to be put on NCAA probation. I just want to win enough to warrant an investigation.' Bob Devaney / Nebraska #10. 'In Alabama , an atheist is someone who doesn't believe in Bear Bryant.' Wally Butts / Georgia 11. 'You can learn more character on the two-yard line thananywhere else in life.' Paul Dietzel / LSU #12. 'It's kind of hard to rally around a math class.'Bear Bryant/Alabama #13. When asked if Fayetteville was the end of the world. 'No, but you can see it from here.' Lou Holtz / Arkansas . #14. 'I make my practices real hard because if a player is a quitter, I want him to quit in practice, not in a game.' Bear Bryant / Alabama #15. 'There's one sure way to stop us from scoring-give us the ball near the goal line.' Matty Bell / SMU #16. 'Lads, you're not to miss practice unless your parents died or you died.' Frank Leahy / Notre Dame #17. 'I never graduated from Iowa , but I was only there for two terms - Truman's and Eisenhower's.' Alex Karras/Iowa #18. 'My advice to defensive players: Take the shortest route to the ball and arrive in a bad humor.' Bowden Wyatt / Tennessee #19. 'I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades.' Duffy Daugherty / Michigan State #20. 'Always remember... Goliath was a 40 point favorite over David.' Shug Jordan / Auburn #21. 'They cut us up like boarding house pie. And that's real small pieces.' Darrell Royal / Texas #22. 'Show me a good and gracious loser, and I'll show you a failure.' Knute Rockne / Notre Dame #23. 'They whipped us like a tied up goat.' Spike Dykes/Texas Tech #24. 'I asked Darrell Royal, the coach of the Texas Longhorns, why he didn't recruit me and he said: 'Well, Walt, we took a look at you and you weren't any good.' Walt Garrison/Oklahoma State #25. 'Son, you've got a good engine, but your hands aren't on the steering wheel.' Bobby Bowden / Florida State #26. 'Football is not a contact sport - it is a collision sport. Dancing is a contact sport.' Duffy Daugherty / Michigan State #27. After USC lost 51-0 to Notre Dame, his postgame message to his team: 'All those who need showers, take them.' John McKay /USC #28. 'If lessons are learned in defeat, our team is getting a great education.' Murray Warmath / Minnesota #29. 'The only qualifications for a lineman are to be big and dumb. To be a back, you only have to be dumb.'Knute Rockne / Notre Dame #30. 'Oh, we played about like three tons of buzzard puke this afternoon.' Spike Dykes / Texas Tech #31. 'It isn't necessary to see a good tackle. You can hear it.' Knute Rockne / Notre Dame #32. 'We live one day at a time and scratch where it itches.' Darrell Royal / Texas #33. 'We didn't tackle well today but we made up for it by not blocking.' Wilson Matthews / Little Rock Central High School #34. 'Three things can happen when you throw the ball, and two of them are bad. Darrell Royal / University of Texas #35. 'I've found that prayers work best when you have big players.' Knute Rockne / Notre Dame #36. 'Gentlemen, it is better to have died as a small boy than to fumble this football.' John Heisman / Georgia Tech

Hard to say. And I think what we may have learned here was this: many people assumed that if an 87+ MJ had a D44 it automatically had the MT pkg. Not true. Now, if you have the factory tow pkg, yes, you automatically had the D44. My truck is an example of that, and I also have the window sticker supporting that info. So, what I think is logical, the same "rules" applied in '86, the only difference being the HD axle was the AMC20 and not the D44, which replaced the 20 as the MJ's HD axle starting in '87. So, you still may hold the answer to the $64,000 question: does that truck have a factory tow pkg? :popcorn: Factory D44 on my 89 (Per Build Sheet), No MT Package, No Tow Package Ok so that answers that question. Is the easiest way to simply count the leaves? Is it definatly a MT truck if it has 5 rear leaves? Now THAT is a definite, but even still with some variations. Yes, MT packs were always 5 leaves. I forget which years were which, but they had one set that had 3 long leaves and 2 short overload leaves, and the other one was 4 progessively lengthed leaves with the 1 overload leaf. Hornbrod can even supply you with the part #s :yes: *Edit, well, once again, nothing is definite, especially with a Jeep. The pack with the 2 overload springs someone could have added an aftermarket overload spring, although they don't usually look the same as the bottom factory spring, so if you lay your eyes on a set of these, I'd say it is "highly likely" they are factory MTs. On the other pack though, there's always the chance one could be an AAL. Best way to tell if these are factory is probably to check 2 things: the 4 main leaves should be evenly spaced, and the tips should be tapered whereas an AAL is usually just squared off on the end IIRC. :ack:

Hard to say. And I think what we may have learned here was this: many people assumed that if an 87+ MJ had a D44 it automatically had the MT pkg. Not true. Now, if you have the factory tow pkg, yes, you automatically had the D44. My truck is an example of that, and I also have the window sticker supporting that info. So, what I think is logical, the same "rules" applied in '86, the only difference being the HD axle was the AMC20 and not the D44, which replaced the 20 as the MJ's HD axle starting in '87. So, you still may hold the answer to the $64,000 question: does that truck have a factory tow pkg? :popcorn: Factory D44 on my 89 (Per Build Sheet), No MT Package, No Tow Package Yep, forgot to mention that. I know you could order a D44 "a la carte", i.e. by itself. Sooooo, again, it stands to reason that the same ordering "rules" probably applied in '86 and you could order the 20 by itself. :dunno: LOL, maybe the only thing that's certain is that they were smart enough to not build an MT or Tow pkg truck with the 35. But as Pete always says, nothing is certain when it comes to specs on a Jeep. So, what's the over/under on how long it will take before somebody posts up the D35 w/tow pkg?

Hard to say. And I think what we may have learned here was this: many people assumed that if an 87+ MJ had a D44 it automatically had the MT pkg. Not true. Now, if you have the factory tow pkg, yes, you automatically had the D44. My truck is an example of that, and I also have the window sticker supporting that info. So, what I think is logical, the same "rules" applied in '86, the only difference being the HD axle was the AMC20 and not the D44, which replaced the 20 as the MJ's HD axle starting in '87. So, you still may hold the answer to the $64,000 question: does that truck have a factory tow pkg? :popcorn:

:agree: What will be even more strange though if it DOES NOT have a 5-spring MT pack is who would take those off, even if they didn't know what they were? ESPECIALLY on a 2wd, i.e. it's not like the wanted more flex. I still say it's gonna have them. :popcorn: Edit*, ok, wow, I only see 4 leaves, MT's have 5. Adam knows his XJs/MJs about as well as anybody, I figured he just overlooked the springs when he saw what he wanted with the axle and such. And there's no mistaking that HUGE pumpkin on that 20! CA-RAZZZZEEEE! :hmm: :dunno:

I can't recall all of my resources, but Pete confirmed that when I was researching for them last summer. I'd bet you're actually in for a surprise when you go back to look. Let us know............ Adam, is your son ok? How old is the little tyke now?

:rotfl2: hilarious, i was thinking the same thing.

I put some on mine last summer. My first test with them was a load of dirt and wood chips from a large stump I ground down. I had a load that filled the bed to the rails, and while it was definitely loaded down, I think it could have taken a little more. No idea how much that weighed, but a 7ft bed loaded to the rails with dirt, I would say it was a lot. I know Hornbrod bought some aftermarket MT packs and has had it really loaded on many occasions without issue. I found an OE set on car-part.com by looking for MJs that had either a D44 or AMC20 rear end. If you see a truck listed with the AMC20 you're done because that axle only came on the '86 and only in the MT package. Ask me how I know LOL! When I tried to search under leaf springs, there were a lot listed as 5 leafs but upon calling the yard actually had AALs or bastard packs. Ask me how I know that too LOL!!

hmmm, i'll have to look at how my hitche is mounted again and then look at your "how to" notes on mountig the bumping and try to decide if an S10 bumper and MJ hitch are feasible w/out a ton of work. Thanks..........

Cool, 'cause I'm already scouting out a bumper. I don't think I'll find the $20/freebie you did, but I think I might have found one practically new for $100. Now, I currently have the tow pkg and would want to put a tow hitch under this. Do you have any idea if I should go with an MJ hitch or if an S10 hitch would work?

i think you need to take pics and post your bumper in the DIY section. i was dead set on finding a factory chrome replacement, but i love the look of that bumper. great job on the whole truck. were you considering doing a 97+ dash swap? as nice as that looks with the updated style, I think you need to go for it all! :thumbsup:

:hmm: They were just moved? To where? I don't see anything on the home page as to where to look? Or are we not able to look? Just curious.......

Again, that's why I hate that rule. WAY too open to individual interpretation IMO.

:huh???: :rotfl2: Aww sheez, you've got to be kidding, right? Are you just trying to get a rise out of the Steelers fans? So let me get this straight. You are trying to say that the Cardinals are a more talented team?? Give me a break! What you really seem to be trying to say is that they got robbed by the refs. I was just as suprised that the last play did not get turned over (it was reviewed IIRC). They may have played a better overall game if you want to argue that (which, admittedly biased, I probably wouldn't even agree to that), but to say they are a more talented team is a joke Wade. Offensively, although less balanced, probably so; defensively, not even close. Overall, absolutely not. I remind you the Steelers played the #1 most difficult schedule in the LEAGUE this year, and capped it by winning it all. The Cards got hot and proved they ARE a talented team and had earned their way into the game, i.e. they were not a fluke, but c'mon, you seriously don't believe that do you? It just seemed they had reviewed everything else at the right times though out the game, either by challenges or inside of 2:00 minutes. At the biggest game of the year, why wouldn't you at least take the extra time to just MAKE sure... Probably a 1 in a 10,000 chance that it would have made a difference had they had one more shot, but still, I think the game was called pretty well expect for that. I know people hate to hear it, but I don't think the most talented team won... the team that made the fewest mistakes, absolutely, the team that made the big plays on the big drive when they had too, yep....more talented, not in my opinion... Sw2

Agreed that call was BS in light of the rule and the other one that they did call forward motion on. With a guy like Fitzgerald and those flypaper mitts he has for hands, there's always a chance they could have pulled off a hail-mary in those last 5 seconds, but ................... That's the biggest BS rule IMO anyway. If the ball hasn't left the QBs hand and it gets knocked out cocking back or moving forward, ahhh, WTH, everybody's got an opinion on something like that and they all stink.

Now JT, I know I am biased, but I don't think they "whooped their arses". Their D played a great game and while they had some stupid penalties (that's known as "big game mental breakdown") and a questionable one or two (as did the Steelers), Pittsburgh made enough plays to put points on the board. Everbody knew their offense could put points on the board, even on the Steelers D. Hell, the Steelers only gave up 300 yds total offense ONCE the whole year, and the cards put up 400. But it was their D that kept them in the game, because if they didn't stop Pittsburgh inside the 5 all those times in the first half, you would have been looking at a 35-7 blowout. Bottom line is, champions find a way to win whether they've been outplayed the majority of the game or given up a few big plays, and the Steelers did just that.

Yeah Don, Cards showed they were legit. All the talk about the Steelers D and yet the Cards D was the quiet star of the game IMO. Every time the Steelers couldn't punch it in I was saying if they keep kicking field goals they're headed for trouble. Man that was awesome to watch, and fortunately the final result I was looking for.

eeeeasssy trigger.........if we'd have known you were communicating via phone, as Pete correctly guessed, I don't think it would be a big deal. it's all good now.

my thoughts EXACTLY??!! Turkey? Deer head?

LOL, uh, what are ya saying Wade, you don't like big hairy pussies that bite? a pet lion? didnt you see Grandmas Boy? its not a good idea. :rotf: i aint crazy enough to have that!

Incredible game!! Cards were legit. Defense kept them in the game until the O finally broke open. Buuuuutt, a true champion comes through when the chips are down, and the Steelers showed why they are the best IMO!!!