Eagle

Fog lights and driving lights DO have different reflectors.

Yeah? Did you read it? There's a lot in there that applies directly to you: This immediately tells you that FOG lights are different from DRIVING lights. They have a different SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) type code. You can't buy a driving light and call it a fog light ... even by changing the lens. For an MJ, this means you can have two fog lights, two driving lights, or one of each. For your father's old car with the quad headlights, since driving lights come on with the high beams and he had four high beams already, he could not have added driving lights. He COULD have added two fog lights -- as long as they were wired to turn off when the high beams turned on. Translation: You can't use a driving light as a fog light, or a fog light as a driving light. Note specifically that it says vehicles equipped from the factory with two driving lights shall not be rejected. This is consistent with the state law. Driving lights MUST be wired so they only operate with the high beams on. You can't install driving lights and try to modify them to be fog lights. Fog lights must be an approved type. No alterations allowed. This document is an administrative regulation. It is a "law," but only because it exists and functions under the "statutory authority" of the section of state statute I cited earlier. An administrative regulation can NEVER cancel, override, or contradict the statute. Statutes rule. The language of the statute is clear: you can add fog lights, but driving lights are allowed ONLY from the factory.

He can update to the XJ gasket style trim.

Wrong state ...

Never mind -- I found it. You cannot legally install DRIVING lights on your MJ in Virginia -- period. You can install FOG lights. The reason is that Jeep never offered DRIVING lights for the XJ or the MJ -- only FOG lights. This section of the law also explains why the Liberty could not be sold in VA with the four optional, rooftop off-road lights. http://www.lawserver.com/law/state/virginia/va-code/virginia_code_46-2-1020

1. already have that site for my state, va, 2. i already know the law for the lights, Redwolf I don't think you do. If you have a site that spells out the law for Virginia, post the link to it. Because what you posted a couple of posts back is wrong: Federal law requires that FOG lights shut off when the high beams are on, and DRIVING lights shut off when the high beams are NOT on. I very much doubt that Virginia has a state law that is directly the opposite of the federal law. Let's see the source documentation for what you think you know.

You're right, and I'm wrong (again). And I wasn't even drinking. Maybe that's the problem ...

Hey, guys -- I just noticed that, between the photo in post #3 and the diagram in post #7, if you compare the two they won't have the water pump rotating in the same direction. Oops!

I forgot that you're in Virginia. Do you remember when the Liberty first came out to replace the Cherokee? One of the factory options on the Libby was a set of four off-road lights mounted on the roof. Guess which state did NOT allow that option to be sold within its borders. If you guessed "Virginia," you win the game. Virginia is very strict on lights. But, even if they weren't, I don't know about Pete but I'm not going to go on a public forum and recommend to people that they knowingly break the law. The law is the law. You're going to be making your own wiring harness from scratch. It's not much more work to do it right than to do it wrong, so why not do it right? And then there's the issue of the right kind of lights. Driving lights DON'T WORK as fog lights. If you install driving lights when you want fog lights, you are WASTING TIME AND MONEY AND EFFORT. Just do it right, for Gawd's sake. Get the right lights for the job, and wire them in according to the law. Why are you now so interested in doing it completely wrong, when you started off asking us how to do it right?

i did, looks closed off like a tube bumper or somethin unless the plastic dirt skirt is in the way :dunno: can't see a way to take that bumper off either :( and if lights are aimed right they can be used for anything with the right modification, just throwin my 2 cent out there :D Redwolf No, they can't. Because the lenses are different, and the reflectors are different, so the lights throw light in a completely different pattern. Aiming driving lights low enough to not blind on-coming drivers would make them useless as driving lights, and because the beam is very narrow they would also be useless as fog lights. And the fact remains, however you aim them they ARE driving lights, and the law for driving lights is that they can operate ONLY with the high beams ... while the law for fog lights is that they canNOT operate with the high beams. Skidoo's excellent wiring diagram is NOT correct for driving lights. It can be modified to work for driving lights, but as drawn it is WRONG if your lights are driving lights. And, by the way, just putting a yellow lens on a driving light doesn't make it a fog light.

Why? The default font seems to work just fine for everyone else.

The above statement is true. I agree completely. That said -- running your fogs with the high beams is illegal under federal law and under the laws of many states. That's why no factory fogs come set up to do it.

Howley's post. As I read it, he wants to turn on his fogs at will; by themselves, w. or w/o the head lamps, HI or LO beam. As I do. If I'm reading his post correctly, the answer is yes, and no additional rely is required. And I fully understand Skidoo's fine wiring diagram, but this is not what Howley is asking. I guess we're reading his post differently. What he wrote was: The factory setup requires that the headlights be on to use the foglights, but they do go off when you switch to high beams. I interpret Howley's question as asking how to change that so he can run the fogs either with headlights (the way they work now) or with parking lights or no lights. Since his present setup kills the fogs with high beams, to convert to on with no headlights and to maintain the high beam off "feature" requires adding a relay. He asked how to convert to "the above diagram" ... which has the two relays.

Now, now. Sarcasm ill becomes you. Skidoo's diagram does NOT violate the law, because the second relay (tapped off the high beams) is normally closed, and when it sees power it turns off the fogs. Howley asked how to modify the factory setup to do the same thing. It can be done, but it will require the addition of a second relay in addition to relocating the primary power tap. I can figure out the changes needed and I'd be happy to do so ... once I find my wiring diagram book. If you have yours and want to draw it up, by all means go for it.

The originals were tapped off the low beams, not the high beams. If you change that to a switched ignition feed, the fogs will operate any time you have the ignition on but they WON'T go off when you switch to high beams, and the law requires that they do so. That's why Skidoo's wiring diagram uses two relays.

Check this out http://comancheclub.com/topic/32740-alexias-1987-to-1997-comanche/page-13 Jump to the top of page 13 in that thread

Of course. Next you'll ask "How?" That's going to take some time, because I don't know where I put my FSM with the wiring diagrams for the factory foglight setup.

And you determine your tire size by reading the size stamped on the sidewall, not by measuring with a tape measure.

Mate, you are confusing the hell out of people. "Turn over" means that the starter motor spins the crankshaft. If your engine isn't "turning over," neither spark nor fuel make any difference because the engine is just sitting there, not rotating. So is it not turning over, or is it turning over but not firing? If it is turning over, never mind that you replaced a bunch f ignition stuff -- do you have spark at the spark plugs?

Almost all of them today have plastic housings. Plastic doesn't rust.

In In fog, of course. I grew up spending summers with my grandparents on the coast of Maine. Fog often was VERY thick, and even low beam headlights created more blinding reflection than they provided useful illumination. The whole point of "fog" lights is to have a very low, very flat beam with a sharp cut-off so as much light as possible goes on the road, and as little light as possible gets reflected back into the driver's eyes. Both my wife's and my 2000 XJs and my '88 XJ have fogs. I don't think they've been used more than four or five times the entire time I've owned the vehicles, because we don't often get real fog in these parts any more (we did when I was a kid -- more proof of global warming?).I am continually amused by all the cars and SUVs I see driving around on clear nights and clear evenings with their fog lights on. Fords (Exploders, mostly) are among the worst offenders -- the "fog" lights are aimed higher than the headlights, which is blinding to on-coming drivers and would be worse than useless in real fog.

IIRC, with the factory harness the fogs ONLY operate when the headlights are on. Not with just the parking lights, and definitely not by themselves with no other lights on. The wiring diagram posted by Skidoo allows the use of the fogs only, even if no other lights are on. My alternate suggestion would still require the use of the parking lights. IMHO the factory wiring was a dumb setup for that reason. I don't know why they did it that way, as I had owned AMC cars in the early 80s that had factory fog that did NOT require the headlights to be on, yet still went off when the high beams came on. Redwolf ... just use Ski's wiring diagram. EXACTLY as he posted it. Just remember that the relays will both have five terminals, and pay attention to which one uses terminal 87 and which one uses terminal 87A.

If the DW showed up after a night of mudding, it could just be mud caked into a wheel causing a massive imbalance.

Doesn't exist. The ZJ Grand Cherokee was offered with a 5-speed only in 1993, and only behind the 4.0L engine.

Maybe easier for some people, others might consider the track modification easier. But ... Unless you're an expert body workers, the striker replacement/relocation is a kludge that mangles the door post and will always be instantly visible and obvious any time the door is opened. That's not a consideration for some people, and it's a major consideration for other people.