F&R axle swap ideas??

[JIMMYRIG]

Apologies for creating yet another axle swap thread….

I have a 35 non-c rear with discs and 30 front. My front axle is in need of some attention as the ball joints are shot, axle seals leaked all diff fluid out and on top of that one of my rims is bent. I’ve also wanted to install lockers at least in the rear but I’ve heard Dana 35s are not worth it. So… I’m curious if I should just go snag a couple junkyard axles from a ZJ and avoid having to regear? Or maybe even do a super duty swap if I need to replace rims anyways. Any thoughts?

[89 MJ]

What are your plans with the truck? If it’s a daily driver and occasional off road rig, a Super 35 and a D30 will be sufficient. If it’s mostly a trail rig, go for tons. 
My axles of choice would be a D30 front and a Chrysler 8.25 rear out of either an XJ or a Liberty. 

[JIMMYRIG]

Ok. For now its my preferred daily as its more efficient than my obs ford. I want the truck to be capable in snow and ice and I'd like it to be capable enough on trails to get to cool camping spots but I don't have the money to abuse it on trails right now.

[ghetdjc320]

What gears do you currently have and what tire size do have/plan to run? You can grab some one-piece front shafts and run your existing D30 up front. The cast in passenger side upper control arm is really nice on the CAD axles. For the rear, you can get some upgraded 1541 shafts. There used to be some 4140 or 4340 shafts available for non c clip axles but I haven't seen them in quite some time. If you go with a trutrac or similar rear limited slip and set it up correctly, it should last a good long time as a driver/weekend warrior. That and a front lunchbox locker have been a pretty great combo for many. Some good quality front and rear covers can help add some strength to the pumpkins as well.

[89 MJ]

The next thing worth discussing is tire size plans. And this will depend on your engine, your driving style, and your driving environment. Your budget for parts and fabrication skill is another factor. Your quickest option and you option requiring the least amount of fab work will be to put axle shafts in your D35 along with a locker of your choice. That may or may not be your cheapest option too, depending on what gears you want to run and the condition of the other axle if you were to swap it out instead. 

[JIMMYRIG]

10 minutes ago, ghetdjc320 said:

What gears do you currently have and what tire size do have/plan to run? You can grab some one-piece front shafts and run your existing D30 up front. The cast in passenger side upper control arm is really nice on the CAD axles. For the rear, you can get some upgraded 1541 shafts. There used to be some 4140 or 4340 shafts available for non c clip axles but I haven't seen them in quite some time. If you go with a trutrac or similar rear limited slip and set it up correctly, it should last a good long time as a driver/weekend warrior. That and a front lunchbox locker have been a pretty great combo for many. Some good quality front and rear covers can help add some strength to the pumpkins as well.

I have 33s now and don't plan on ever going bigger than maybe 35s. Not sure I understand what you mean by cast in upper control arm. Also not sure if this matters but I'm considering doing a CAD delete and doing a long arm kit. Doing CAD delete because I got the truck up on the rack today and found out 4x4 is not engaging even though part time light comes on and vacuum hoses are connected

[JIMMYRIG]

I think I have 3.07 gears - its a peugot 5spd, 35 non c,

17 minutes ago, ghetdjc320 said:

What gears do you currently have and what tire size do have/plan to run? You can grab some one-piece front shafts and run your existing D30 up front. The cast in passenger side upper control arm is really nice on the CAD axles. For the rear, you can get some upgraded 1541 shafts. There used to be some 4140 or 4340 shafts available for non c clip axles but I haven't seen them in quite some time. If you go with a trutrac or similar rear limited slip and set it up correctly, it should last a good long time as a driver/weekend warrior. That and a front lunchbox locker have been a pretty great combo for many. Some good quality front and rear covers can help add some strength to the pumpkins as well.

I think I have 3.07s. Its a peugot 5spd and 4.0 I6

[ghetdjc320]

Swapping to one-piece axle shafts deletes the CAD system. So where the CAD system is on the axle, it's a solid cast iron part that includes the passenger side upper control arm bracket. If you go to a later style Dana 30 without the CAD, they used a flimsy stamped steel bracket for the passenger axle side of the upper control arm. 

[JIMMYRIG]

1 minute ago, ghetdjc320 said:

Swapping to one-piece axle shafts deletes the CAD system. So where the CAD system is on the axle, it's a solid cast iron part that includes the passenger side upper control arm bracket. If you go to a later style Dana 30 without the CAD, they used a flimsy stamped steel bracket for the passenger axle side of the upper control arm. 

I see. So you're saying its worth it to keep my current front axle and just throw in a one piece shaft.

 

Also is it a must to go with a stronger rear shaft if I'm locking the axle? Since its a non c clip it wouldn't necessarily be unsafe to just install an LSD and then if i snap a shaft upgrade then?

[89 MJ]

3 minutes ago, JIMMYRIG said:

I have 33s now and don't plan on ever going bigger than maybe 35s. Not sure I understand what you mean by cast in upper control arm. Also not sure if this matters but I'm considering doing a CAD delete and doing a long arm kit. Doing CAD delete because I got the truck up on the rack today and found out 4x4 is not engaging even though part time light comes on and vacuum hoses are connected

Definitely do the CAD delete. What he meant was the upper control arm mount on the passenger side on Jeeps with CAD axles. On CAD axles, the mount is a cast iron piece that also has the CAD housing. 

 

3 minutes ago, JIMMYRIG said:

I think I have 3.07 gears - its a peugot 5spd, 35 non c,

I think I have 3.07s. Its a peugot 5spd and 4.0 I6

You have a whole lot of upgrades to do then. That Peugeot is living on borrowed time. If you have plans to run 35s, I'd run 4.88 gears. If you think it will stay on 33s long term, 4.56s would likely be sufficient.

[ghetdjc320]

1 minute ago, JIMMYRIG said:

I think I have 3.07 gears - its a peugot 5spd, 35 non c,

I think I have 3.07s. Its a peugot 5spd and 4.0 I6

So this could be a bit of a rabbit hole. The BA10 is a delicate gear box for wheeling. I ran one for years but really babied it. If you want to start upgrading things, the combo you have will tend to snowball. If you stick with 33's and you're ok with 3.07 gears then repair what is needed and perhaps consider the mods listed above. Otherwise you're looking at gears, axles, transmission, possibly driveshafts, lockers etc. Keep in mind that your current light weight axles have significantly more clearance than most axle swaps. move up to a 35 tire and needed mods and you won't really be gaining any additional clearance under the diffs.

[89 MJ]

Just now, JIMMYRIG said:

I see. So you're saying its worth it to keep my current front axle and just throw in a one piece shaft.

 

Also is it a must to go with a stronger rear shaft if I'm locking the axle? Since its a non c clip it wouldn't necessarily be unsafe to just install an LSD and then if i snap a shaft upgrade then?

Correct. 

When you break a rear axle shaft, it probably won't be in your driveway. It will probably be at a terrible time. You'll have to pull your shafts to install the LSD anyways, so you might as well do it all at the same time. 

[ghetdjc320]

1 minute ago, JIMMYRIG said:

I see. So you're saying its worth it to keep my current front axle and just throw in a one piece shaft.

 

Also is it a must to go with a stronger rear shaft if I'm locking the axle? Since its a non c clip it wouldn't necessarily be unsafe to just install an LSD and then if i snap a shaft upgrade then?

A pair of shafts is cheap insurance to prevent that from happening. If you go with a torsion based limited slip (ie. Powertrax GripPro or Eaton TruTrac) they tend to be a bit gentler on axle shafts. Keep in mind though that if you break a shaft, even though you're wheel will probably stay on due to the pressed on rear bearings, the broken axle shaft piece can cause a lot of damage to your limited slip and or ring and pinion.

[89 MJ]

This thread and then the build thread in it have a little bit of information on the Super 35.

 

[JIMMYRIG]

Ok. Looks like I'm sticking with 33s for the foreseeable future. I don't have the time or money to replace my entire drivetrain. My bottom line is that this thing can be a (relatively) safe daily and get me to and fro the mountains in snow season. I'll look into shafts, CAD and LSD for my current setup but for now I want to see if i can squeeze at least another year out of my peugot as I just did the throwout bearing and clutch. I also don't really want to regear my current axles as the cost of labor alone would likely exceed the cost of junkyard axles and I don't have the tools do regear myself.

[JIMMYRIG]

Unless regearing isnt that bad? I assumed it required tools I don't have but I don't exactly know what it entails for these axles

[ghetdjc320]

Regearing is a bit of a trick but not horribly difficult. A few specialty tools needed like a dial indicator with magnetic base, a micrometer (not a caliper), a press and possibly a good bearing puller. If you're driving in snow or ice truetracs are the way to go front and rear. Lockers will try to kill you on icy roads . You could always go with some good quality 31's also instead of regearing. 31's are kind of a sweet spot on Jeeps of that era with a great cost to benefit ratio

[watchamakalit]

8 hours ago, ghetdjc320 said:

Regearing is a bit of a trick but not horribly difficult. A few specialty tools needed like a dial indicator with magnetic base, a micrometer (not a caliper), a press and possibly a good bearing puller. If you're driving in snow or ice truetracs are the way to go front and rear. Lockers will try to kill you on icy roads . You could always go with some good quality 31's also instead of regearing. 31's are kind of a sweet spot on Jeeps of that era with a great cost to benefit ratio

Patience, you will also need lots of patience also. Gears are a bit of a trial and error thing. Might have to assemble, check, and disassemble for adjustment several times. Have patience and it's really not hard to do.

[89 MJ]

I don't think that regearing is terribly difficult, it just takes some time. It is also way easier with the axle out of the vehicle, in my opinion. 

[75sv1]

      I've used the Grimm Reapers gear calculator a few times. It is quite accurate. On 33's with a manual, I remember 4.10's. I did do a search on Car-Parts.com and there were two Dana 30s in CA with 4.10 gears. I think $350 and $450. I tried to check for rears for an MJ. They did make AMC 20's and Dana 44's for the MJ. Both a bit rare. The stock AMC 20 shafts are weak though.

     On the ZJ rear end, it should be 3.73. I think it has an aluminum housing. It is a weak axle. My neighbor swapped in a Ford 8.8 in his ZJ. I had that ratio on a 2000 XJ Auto and 31's. Its OK, but 4.10s would be better. 

 

     A few other rear axles to think about are the Chrysler 8 1/4 and the Ford 8.8. Both would need brackets welded on. I have Ford 8.8's in two of my XJs. Both axles can be found with 4.10's .  You would need to use spacers on the Ford 8.8 or the Yukon axle upgrade. I've done both. 

[JIMMYRIG]

Ok thank you all for the help I'll continue to brainstorm my options

[Pete M]

I've used car-part.com to hunt down junkyard 4.10 axles.  my go-to for up to 33s is the late model XJ 30 paired with a liberty 8.25.  but the liberty 3.73 geared axles are like 95% of them out there, so if you go that way, any yard will have one (so be picky and get a good one).  3.73 is common in ZJs and TJs front axles (though they will be low pinion).  ZJs and TJs usually have a 35 rear, which I would skip.  or the silly aluminum 44 in the ZJs which is arguably not any better than the 35.

[JIMMYRIG]

1 hour ago, Pete M said:

I've used car-part.com to hunt down junkyard 4.10 axles.  my go-to for up to 33s is the late model XJ 30 paired with a liberty 8.25.  but the liberty 3.73 geared axles are like 95% of them out there, so if you go that way, any yard will have one (so be picky and get a good one).  3.73 is common in ZJs and TJs front axles (though they will be low pinion).  ZJs and TJs usually have a 35 rear, which I would skip.  or the silly aluminum 44 in the ZJs which is arguably not any better than the 35.

Ok I’ll keep an eye out. I need to check what my ratio is now. Pete, I referred back to one of your old posts and I’m wondering if maybe I have the fuel economy package. I’ve ran the 33x12.5s for the last 10-15 thousand miles and the truck has handled it well so far… makes me wonder

[JIMMYRIG]

Also if I do the CAD delete and run a 1 piece axle on my Dana 30 are there any shafts I can pull from a yard that work with the 89 CAD axle? I need to get rid of the 2 piece, the 4x4 is not engaging just in time for ski season😔

[Pete M]

5 minutes ago, JIMMYRIG said:

Also if I do the CAD delete and run a 1 piece axle on my Dana 30 are there any shafts I can pull from a yard that work with the 89 CAD axle? I need to get rid of the 2 piece, the 4x4 is not engaging just in time for ski season😔

 

 

permanently fixing the CAD can be a 10 minute job.   but the late model shafts will give you the bigger ujoints, so they are a good choice for later.