Warren99 Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 So after putting on a beefier steering setup my subtle but often wobble turned into a undrivable wobble that could start anywhere above 30mph. Toeing it in made it worse and when I toed the wheels out that sorta fixed it for some reason but it obviously can't stay like that. Regardless, after looking I'm pretty sure the whole issue is coming from not having enough camber. I think when I got my truck alligned it had 2 degrees, when shouldn't it be 4-6? The lift I got from someones cherokee only included taller springs and new lower control arms. Because of this the lower control arms always look like they are at their limit, and shouldn't be angled down as much. I would think getting a control arm drop bracket should not only help add camber, but also make the ride closer to being as smooth as its supposed to be. I guess the main reason I'm making this post is to see if anyone has a different take, or if anyone knows of a cheaper drop bracket. https://www.roughcountry.com/jeep-xj-control-arm-drop-kit-1627.html (and it should be the exact same for an MJ even though it says XJ right? Only reason I'm skeptical is because when you select MJ it says it doesn't fit) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 how much lift do you have? are your control arms long adjustable? if not, how long are they? (bolt-to-bolt) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
75sv1 Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 I am wonder if even if the drop brackets would help with DW. A lot of issues can lead to DW. Mine was a cracked frame. You don't say how much lift you have. And that would lead to how long you upper and lower control arms need to be. Also, if you have drop brackets, the length is shorter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Mark Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 I call the wobble "Death Wobs" because you feel like you are about to drive off the road when it happens! Things I've noticed from the past, make sure the steering stabilizer is securely attached and that it still has life left in it. Regarding the camber, I don't think that's the issue, it's the caster that you are describing and yes that comes into play. If you have 35" plus tires you could install a redneck ram style hydraulic steering setup. While it sounds "extreme" adding it will make a huge difference and will likely eliminate the death wobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 29 minutes ago, Big_Mark said: I call the wobble "Death Wobs" because you feel like you are about to drive off the road when it happens! Things I've noticed from the past, make sure the steering stabilizer is securely attached and that it still has life left in it. Regarding the camber, I don't think that's the issue, it's the caster that you are describing and yes that comes into play. Yea I meant caster idk why I kept saying camber lol. The stabilizer felt great still and is securely connected. Everything is brand new except the steering box itself but it doesn't have any play, has a slight leak though. 31 minutes ago, Big_Mark said: If you have 35" plus tires you could install a redneck ram style hydraulic steering setup. While it sounds "extreme" adding it will make a huge difference and will likely eliminate the death wobs. I only have 31s on mine, which paired with 3.55s lines up the speedometer perfectly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 55 minutes ago, Pete M said: how much lift do you have? are your control arms long adjustable? if not, how long are they? (bolt-to-bolt) The actual lift amount I'm not sure. The only lift we did in the back was relocate the perches so we could put the axle under the leafs, and it perfectly matches the front. And from bolt to bolt, the lower control arms are about 16 inches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 The truck isnt sitting on super level ground but here's the control arms from the side. Notice how much the springs are curved from the bumpstop, another reason I think the control arms could be better. All of the next pictures are just showing the new tie rod, drag link, and panard bar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 stock upper arms shouldn't be used with a 5"+ lift. and if the lowers are anywhere near long enough for that much lift, you can't really use them with drop brackets (too long). I'd probably get WJ lowers and uppers and combine those with the drop brackets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 I'm trying to stay as cheap as possible, could I just get control arms without the need for the drop brackets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 WJ arms can be found in a junkyard for cheap. are your current lowers long enough for the lift you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 I have no idea, I got the "lift" from a beater cherokee that was being parted out. The only new components, not including the axles were springs, lower control arms, and their sketchy welded sway bar links. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 the link in my signature has threads for both measuring height and a chart for arm length vs lift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted March 4, 2022 Author Share Posted March 4, 2022 Ok thanks I’ll have a look Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghetdjc320 Posted March 4, 2022 Share Posted March 4, 2022 Your drag link angles are quite steep it seems from the pics. The Comanche control arm brackets are not identical to XJ brackets. There is extra reinforcement to them that is not there on the XJ. Rock road suspension makes a set that works. I think there are one or two others as well. The cheapest alternative I could think of here is to lower you lift back down to whatever your control arms are designed for. I believe those tubular fixed lowers are for possibly a 4” lift max. Mid lifting an MJ that handles like stock is quite a task Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted March 5, 2022 Author Share Posted March 5, 2022 The drag link can be moved to under the pitman arm, the manufacturer (trail forged) just said most applications r better for the top but that it needed it can be moved to the bottom. My dad could have sworn he saw some play in the heim joints even tho they are brand new, so tmr we will check again and if there is they will ship us new ones. I’m assuming that should fix the wobble. But even after that I’m gonna look into shims for the lower control arms to get the extra caster I need. Like I said I’m pretty sure when it was alligned the guy said it was like 2 degrees, which if it needs to be around 7.5 then I wanna fix that. Is putting shims on the lower control arm frame brackets straight forward or is it different/impossible since they are different from Cherokees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 the shims and that pocket are identical to XJs. the bracing is behind that part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted March 5, 2022 Author Share Posted March 5, 2022 Are the shims special things you need to buy to rly work properly or can I just use a washer or make some of my own? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Mark Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 I think you should indeed move the drag link under the pitman arm. I think that angle is too extremeand is likely part of your DW issue. Also those lower links have a weird bend to them. In between Jeeps I had a Disco 3 and installed some "High clearance" lower links to my rear axle that also bends like that (only the ones I had the bend was pointing to the top/upwards) after installing them I had odd rear end behavior (yea go ahead and laugh/quote) whenever I was taking off quickly or turning. I am not saying that's your issue as well but I wouldn't discount it either. Ultimately you want all the angles of steering components and links to be as close to horizontal as possible. I know you aren't going to make everything flat but anywhere you can get it closer the better off you will be, especially that drag link. H I didn't know you had hiem joints at play. I'm not at all surprised you have the DWs since as you discovered Hiem joints do have a tiny bit of play from the get go, and if your mounting bolt holes are oversized at all and not tightened down that can add to more play. I'm not saying hiems are bad, just be aware of the potential of compounding movement as you stack the variables. Lastly that steering stabilizer looks stock, you might consider getting a larger diameter one to see if that helps. My free advice: 1. Move drag link to bottom of pitman arm 2. ensure all hiems are properly mounted and snug 3. upgrade stabilizer Ultimately I suspect you are dealing with issues related to geometry. Good luck with the "custom" ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted March 5, 2022 Author Share Posted March 5, 2022 Alr thx. We found one heim joint with visible play, the rest were fine. After I replace that one I’ll test it. Then I’ll move the drag link under the pitman arm, test drive, and finally use shims to fix my caster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 is the tire centered in the wheelwell? this pic seems to indicate that your arms aren't long enough since the coil is bowed. did you find the chart with arm lengths vs lift? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zomeizter Posted March 5, 2022 Share Posted March 5, 2022 Agree with Pete, them LCAs are pulling the axle into the negative caster territory...On the other hand, I think I need that sexy OTK crossover steering setup... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted March 6, 2022 Share Posted March 6, 2022 Drop brackets should not be assumed to be a cure-all. My '88 MJ had a TrailMaster 4" lift -- with drop brackets -- on it when I bought it. I had death wobble, which was caused by the tires being out of balance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren99 Posted March 7, 2022 Author Share Posted March 7, 2022 On 3/5/2022 at 2:34 PM, Pete M said: is the tire centered in the wheelwell? this pic seems to indicate that your arms aren't long enough since the coil is bowed. did you find the chart with arm lengths vs lift? No I couldn't find the chart, but yes if you look closely the tires are ever so slightly pushed backwards in the wheel well, but before I upgraded the steering and track bar, all 4 tires had even wear, and I can flex pretty much as much as possible and theres no scrubbing. So once I get the caster and wobble sorted, fixing the length isn't super high on my priorities list. But please help me find the chart for future reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 fixing the control arm length should be FIRST on the priority list. they are the things that put the axle where it needs to be, and the coils where they need to be, and everything where it needs to be. you're fighting the poor geometry and trying to bandaid a thing that should be a problem in the first place. fix the geometry and everything else will fall in line. found it down in the "suspension" section: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted March 7, 2022 Share Posted March 7, 2022 and the lift height thread: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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