E85 conversion kit

[jtdesigns]

So anyway - back to the original question. How in the world are they accomplishing running E-85 without chaning injectors. Just for the sake of more argument, lets say that you only need 15% more E85 - which is going to translate into a 15% longer injector pulse with stock injectors.

 

Seems like a good kit would include injectors that were up to the task, but that would keep them from offering what looks like a 1 box fits all kit.

 

Anyone actually know someone who has used one of those kits?

 

The only way I can see from their descriptions, and instructions would be to lengthen injector pulse. But, 15% is probably a much closer estimation of how much additional fuel is needed. A 15% longer pulse width wouldn't affect the life of the injectors significantly.

 

Ethanol does contain o2, its the reason that it is used for an oxygenate rather than the toxic MTBE. The reason behind emissions codes is the increased oxygen level. The vehicle sees the extra o2, tries to adjust the fuel ratio. When it can't get the o2 to what it sees as an acceptable level it will set the code.

 

 

Thats what I thought. I didn't run it long enough to make any comparisons in fuel mileage nor did I notice any power increase.

 

I have spoken to a few import tuners (I don;t have just a jeep) If you could remap your fuel curves you could make Ethanol just as efficient as regular petro. The catch is raising the compression to fully gain the most efficiency. Thats an easy task on engines that rev in the 6 and 7000's rpm range but these old jeeps just can't handle those kind of rev's. From what I've been told they don't really hold up to well to forced injection.

My point is, just by adding more fuel to compensate for the loss in energy, by allowing the injectors to stay open longer isn't going to do much more then give you a super rich air/fuel ratio. You have to finely tune your computer, make needed changes in timing and up compression to take advantage of the higher octane levels that E provides.

 

The thing is I don't have much to any knowledge about the renix system to know how it works. from what I have gathered from these system's is that its pretty much a solid state type of ecu ,,,

 

I'll stay here long enough to put it all together though, so I'm not to worried about it.

[whowey]

The renix system is pretty dumb compared to the systems available today. It wouldn't be able adjust the fuel curve enough to make it efficent. But in a off-road only Jeep I can't see it making that much of a difference. For a combined use or DD Jeep, I don't see this system being able to address the issues.

 

Chrysler says you can add E85 at any point and run the van on any combination. But from doing some googling... I have found that the most effective way to make the change is to run a tank of half petro/half E85, then switch to full E85. Supposedly it gives the computer a chance to learn the fuel burn curve of the ethanol. This is what I did, and so far it seems to be effective. BTW, another tank of E85 through the van. 18.8 MPG but I drove the van more than my wife. Our driving styles are decidedly different. I routinely see better MPG than her on every vehicle we have owned.

[jtdesigns]

Yeah I know what your talking about.. I can make some good gas mileage ( if I needed to) Now let Steph drive and its wide open to the next stop light then heavy braking... Girls,,,,, gezzzz,,,,

 

I heard a cool little trick to gain gas mileage, take a bottle of acetone and pour 2 fl oz's in a full tank, I don't know if it works but I don't think that it would hurt a whole lot. Worth further investigation I imagine.

[DirtyComanche]

I heard a cool little trick to gain gas mileage, take a bottle of acetone and pour 2 fl oz's in a full tank, I don't know if it works but I don't think that it would hurt a whole lot. Worth further investigation I imagine.

 

 

It's based on the principle that the acetone will lower the vapour point or decrease surface tension of the gasoline. With a carb it might work. With a EFI engine you're going to see nothing, other than the inreased cost of the acetone. However, it will pull water and contaminantes out of your fuel system, whic might help (basically acts as injector cleaner). Would I do it? Hell no.

 

 

And E85 is a joke. It takes more energy to make it than there is in it. It survives on government subsidies. Give it time, it'll go.

[whowey]

I heard a cool little trick to gain gas mileage, take a bottle of acetone and pour 2 fl oz's in a full tank, I don't know if it works but I don't think that it would hurt a whole lot. Worth further investigation I imagine.

 

 

It's based on the principle that the acetone will lower the vapour point or decrease surface tension of the gasoline. With a carb it might work. With a EFI engine you're going to see nothing, other than the inreased cost of the acetone. However, it will pull water and contaminantes out of your fuel system, whic might help (basically acts as injector cleaner). Would I do it? Hell no.

 

 

And E85 is a joke. It takes more energy to make it than there is in it. It survives on government subsidies. Give it time, it'll go.

 

2 oz of acetone in a 25 gallon tank..... You aren't going to have enough volume to have any realistic effect. A good injector cleaner or de-watering agent is a much better choice at that point.

 

If E85 remained at the technology of 10 years ago, you would be correct. But with the changes that are occuring, that's simply not true.

 

BTW, I paid $2.12 a gallon today... Compared to the $3.37 for 87 octane. Or 37% difference......

[oldjeep]

BTW, I paid $2.12 a gallon today... Compared to the $3.37 for 87 octane. Or 37% difference......

 

Ouch. Here near Minneapolis today it's $2.89 for unleaded and $2.46 for e85. Which is about the price spread we normally see .40 - .50 a gallon

[whowey]

BTW, I paid $2.12 a gallon today... Compared to the $3.37 for 87 octane. Or 37% difference......

 

Ouch. Here near Minneapolis today it's $2.89 for unleaded and $2.46 for e85. Which is about the price spread we normally see .40 - .50 a gallon

 

Usually, we see about 60 to 70 cents a gallon difference. But the station I stopped at today, is now owned by the farmer's co-op. New owners, and direct link to farmers. May be a short term price strategy, but at other stations they own the price difference is usually higher than competing stations.

[Joe Jeep]

So, what would happen if you filled up with E85 or 1/2 tank RUG and 1/2 tank E85? Would the injection system try to compenate for the different mix? Engine go KA-BOOM!? Or would you be down on power without other mods?

I have read a bit on the E85 coversion for autos, but haven't ever persued it. I know they mention increased fuel flow, advancing the timing for the cooler burning fuel and perhaps hotter plugs.

Anyone put E85 in their MJ for kicks?

[whowey]

So, what would happen if you filled up with E85 or 1/2 tank RUG and 1/2 tank E85? Would the injection system try to compenate for the different mix? Engine go KA-BOOM!? Or would you be down on power without other mods?

I have read a bit on the E85 coversion for autos, but haven't ever persued it. I know they mention increased fuel flow, advancing the timing for the cooler burning fuel and perhaps hotter plugs.

Anyone put E85 in their MJ for kicks?

 

 

Doing it a single time won't cause any permanent problems.

 

But doing it repeatedly will cause issues. Your engine won't go KA-BOOM, but you will most likely have idle issues and some misfiring, you can experience this with a single tank. Your check engine light might come on, but with a Renix system you probably won't even get that much.

 

I've used a couple of gallons of E-85 to dewater a fuel system before.

 

But I burn E10 in all my vehicles year round. I've thought about trying a higher blend, but I haven't had the extra time or had the extra money to address any issues that crop up. If I pick up an extra Jeep I looked at, I might have to try it out.

[jtdesigns]

I'd like to run through a tank just to clean out everything. Hopefully the only thing to replace would be the fuel filter. I just replaced all the injector o-rings so I don't think that it would hurt them. Might hurt the fuel regulator, though... Hurry and get that other jeep and see what all you run into...!

[Joe Jeep]

I have been filling up the MJ with 10% ethanol since I have owned it (4+ years now).

Where I live just got E85 in town. $2.60 per gallon vs $3.10 for RUG. I might just add 5 gallons of E85 to the ol' MJ tank and fill the rest of tank with RUG. This would put me around 30% ethanol. Sounds like fun. Oh, something broke...need 4WD conversion... :brows:

[oldjeep]

I'd like to run through a tank just to clean out everything. Hopefully the only thing to replace would be the fuel filter. I just replaced all the injector o-rings so I don't think that it would hurt them. Might hurt the fuel regulator, though... Hurry and get that other jeep and see what all you run into...!

 

Might clear some gunk out, but probabally not if you have been running E10 for a long time. Only thing I would expect to happen is that the engine will run really lean and your check engine light will come on.

[Joe Jeep]

Might clear some gunk out, but probabally not if you have been running E10 for a long time. Only thing I would expect to happen is that the engine will run really lean and your check engine light will come on.

 

I hear ya. I just can't help but wonder and try it out. I know that my Comanche runs rich currently so if I do get around to this, I will keep an eye on the plugs and be ready for the headache. I don't know why, I am just curious about this.

Joe :nuts:

[whowey]

Might clear some gunk out, but probabally not if you have been running E10 for a long time. Only thing I would expect to happen is that the engine will run really lean and your check engine light will come on.

 

I hear ya. I just can't help but wonder and try it out. I know that my Comanche runs rich currently so if I do get around to this, I will keep an eye on the plugs and be ready for the headache. I don't know why, I am just curious about this.

Joe :nuts:

 

Your curious because its cheap and your in wisCOWsin, where corn is cheap and so are the women........

 

With having a renix system, I don't know if the check engine light would even come on. The system is pretty dumb by comparision, and if I remember what I was reading correctly it doesn't even set a light for emissions problems.

 

I would probably mix to 15% first, then go to 20%, then 30% if no problems have occurred. You may find a slightly lower ratio that your junk likes, and is cheaper to run for you. Not to mention being able to give OPEC the middle finger.....

 

Keep an extra set of plugs, and fuel filter around just in case.

 

I doubt you will get much crud out of the fuel system though. I dropped my tank this summer to deal with a fuel pump, and the tank was just about perfectly clean inside. I have been running E10 in the truck for the 4 years I have owned it.

[FxRacing282]

for what cars/trucks? you can't say that its 39% worse without saying what type of vehicle your using. and coulnt youjust get some octane booster? an engine can run around 120 octane before you have premature detanation and flames shooting throught the manifold(s)/header(s).

 

What would higher octane have to do with fuel economy? I think you are a little confused. You get detonation from running fuel that has too low an octane. Any octane over what stops detonation doesn't do anything. Needs

Well, Higher octane burns slower and it gives you more fuel economy so if you run E85 and bump up the octane you will get a more efficient engine.

[Eagle]

for what cars/trucks? you can't say that its 39% worse without saying what type of vehicle your using. and coulnt youjust get some octane booster? an engine can run around 120 octane before you have premature detanation and flames shooting throught the manifold(s)/header(s).

You have it backwards, Mate. Higher octane retards the burn. Knock is caused by premature (or too rapid) detonation, and that's what higher octane helps control.

 

So you want to take a fuel that's already got a higher octane than any commercially available gasoline (more like aviation gas), and then add an octane booster? You'll end up with a fuel that won't burn unless you hit it with a nuke.

[TNT]

You engine is the most efficient if you use the lowest octane you can with pre ignition, ping or knock. The idea is to burn the fuel as fast as possible to get the most efficency out of it. Higher octane fuel won't burn completely and you will lose power and economyboth of whish are determined by efficency. To use E-85 your compression should be about 11 to 1 and your computer must be tuned to run with it because of the different air/fuel ratio needed.

[jtdesigns]

With having a renix system, I don't know if the check engine light would even come on. The system is pretty dumb by comparision, and if I remember what I was reading correctly it doesn't even set a light for emissions problems.

 

I would probably mix to 15% first, then go to 20%, then 30% if no problems have occurred. You may find a slightly lower ratio that your junk likes, and is cheaper to run for you. Not to mention being able to give OPEC the middle finger.....

 

Keep an extra set of plugs, and fuel filter around just in case.

 

I doubt you will get much crud out of the fuel system though. I dropped my tank this summer to deal with a fuel pump, and the tank was just about perfectly clean inside. I have been running E10 in the truck for the 4 years I have owned it.

 

I though the emissions light was set by a timer. Like after so many hours running it would trip the emissions light. Then you have to change out the timer under the dash..

[whowey]

With having a renix system, I don't know if the check engine light would even come on. The system is pretty dumb by comparision, and if I remember what I was reading correctly it doesn't even set a light for emissions problems.

 

I would probably mix to 15% first, then go to 20%, then 30% if no problems have occurred. You may find a slightly lower ratio that your junk likes, and is cheaper to run for you. Not to mention being able to give OPEC the middle finger.....

 

Keep an extra set of plugs, and fuel filter around just in case.

 

I doubt you will get much crud out of the fuel system though. I dropped my tank this summer to deal with a fuel pump, and the tank was just about perfectly clean inside. I have been running E10 in the truck for the 4 years I have owned it.

 

I though the emissions light was set by a timer. Like after so many hours running it would trip the emissions light. Then you have to change out the timer under the dash..

 

Thanks for tripping my memory...... You are correct, it is set by the maintence timer at 80k miles.... So E85 will never turn the light on. Remove the timer and no light....

[jtdesigns]

With having a renix system, I don't know if the check engine light would even come on. The system is pretty dumb by comparision, and if I remember what I was reading correctly it doesn't even set a light for emissions problems.

 

I would probably mix to 15% first, then go to 20%, then 30% if no problems have occurred. You may find a slightly lower ratio that your junk likes, and is cheaper to run for you. Not to mention being able to give OPEC the middle finger.....

 

Keep an extra set of plugs, and fuel filter around just in case.

 

I doubt you will get much crud out of the fuel system though. I dropped my tank this summer to deal with a fuel pump, and the tank was just about perfectly clean inside. I have been running E10 in the truck for the 4 years I have owned it.

 

I though the emissions light was set by a timer. Like after so many hours running it would trip the emissions light. Then you have to change out the timer under the dash..

 

Thanks for tripping my memory...... You are correct, it is set by the maintence timer at 80k miles.... So E85 will never turn the light on. Remove the timer and no light....

 

No prob. Just proves what this forum will teach you! Mr. Wildman has schooled me much on this jeep + reading the forum. Only been here 4 months and I don't see myself getting rid of the jeep ne time soon!