Front Axle Repair - Rusty rusty U joints

[McDougal]

1 hour ago, Pete M said:

 

all 4x4 MJ/XJ/ZJ/YJ/TJ/WJ have versions of the dana 30 (some high pinion, some low, some with leafs, some with the CAD, some with CV shafts).  what's weaker in the pre-95 axles is the ujoints are of the smaller variety.  but that can be fixed with the shafts from a later axle (XJ/TJ).     if you want to buy one that already has the joints, look for 95-99 XJ.  TJ/ZJ will also go in but are low pinion if that matters to your build.

Thanks, I'm new to the 4X4 world so from what I know the main difference is High Pinion is a little stronger. Is that true? If mine is high currently, I wouldn't mind keeping it the same or better. I will get some pics up tonight so it's not just me bombarding with questions

 

1 hour ago, gogmorgo said:

I’ve got a non-cad D30 that ostensibly was original to an ‘86 MJ, although the only evidence I have to that fact is the seller’s word, and I suppose the fact it came as a matched set with the AMC20 rear axle from the same truck. But that’s not the first evidence I’ve seen that the CAD was only introduced for ‘87.

The only real weakness of the CAD axle is that plastic vacuum lines operating it aren’t the most reliable if you like driving through stuff that could catch them and rip them out. The smaller ujoints are fine to run so long as you’re not a ton larger than stock diameter and don’t have a destructive driving style. And if you do blow one apart, it’s just an excuse to upgrade to the later shafts. The driver’s side is a direct replacement, but you’ll need to put an axle seal into the diff to run the passenger side, otherwise it slides right in... provided you can get everything apart.

The ZJ shafts for sure will. I’m not 100% on WJ shafts.  Most will have CV axles, which will still go in just the same as any other d30 shaft. One of my ‘91 MJs is running parts-store ZJ CV’s because it was what I could get in a hurry when I needed them. They’ve got the ABS tone rings on them still, although I’ve seen people say you need to knock off the tone rings off to fit a -‘90 hub. My base ‘93 ZJ does ujoint shafts with the bigger ujoints, but even though they look it I can’t know for sure if they’re original to it or not.

 

Currently my Ujoints are shot on both sides, so far I think changing the axle shafts over to a 95 seems like a good place to start. I do have replacement ujoints but I might as well use the stronger ones. Also, I am attaching a picture of the 4x4 axle I found on Kijiji, it has a tire in the way so I may have to ask her for another picture. Do you guys know what it is just by looking at it?

 

My buddy at the farm will be sending me some shots of my axle tonight and Ill post em up.

 

Thanks everyone for your input, I'm definetly learning 

 

 

[gogmorgo]

There’s some truth to the high pinion being stronger, mostly in that it pushes the “correct” direction on the gear teeth. The other advantage is that it lifts your driveshaft a bit further off the ground.

But that’s not to say there’s anything wrong with a low-pinion axle, they’re not blowing apart left right and centre. It’s just less desirable for the above reasons.
 

That axle looks to me like an hp30. Calliper brackets integral to the knuckles tell me it’s ‘91+. Like you said, the wheel blocks telling if it’s CAD or not, and given it’s 1/8” in the difference between ujoint caps, it’s not something I can call at this resolution, and probably not at all from a photo. 1.188” (~1-3/16”) vs 1.063” (~1-1/16”).

[McDougal]

1 hour ago, gogmorgo said:

There’s some truth to the high pinion being stronger, mostly in that it pushes the “correct” direction on the gear teeth. The other advantage is that it lifts your driveshaft a bit further off the ground.

But that’s not to say there’s anything wrong with a low-pinion axle, they’re not blowing apart left right and centre. It’s just less desirable for the above reasons.
 

That axle looks to me like an hp30. Calliper brackets integral to the knuckles tell me it’s ‘91+. Like you said, the wheel blocks telling if it’s CAD or not, and given it’s 1/8” in the difference between ujoint caps, it’s not something I can call at this resolution, and probably not at all from a photo. 1.188” (~1-3/16”) vs 1.063” (~1-1/16”).

Thanks for the info Gogmorgo, I sent a message to ask more about the axle and get some pictures. It would be nice to find the whole assembly, otherwise I think the plan is two new axles from a 95+ and some new hardware because a lot of mine are a little too rusty to go back in, and probably won't be fun to get out either

[Andy in Pa]

Also, something else to consider is its unlikely you will find an HPD30 from a 4 cylinder XJ or MJ, so its likely that the gearing will not be correct, and you will need to regear the new axle.  I think that most 4 cylinder MJ's and XJ's had 4.10 gears.   Auto's had 3.55 gears mostly.

[Pete M]

2 hours ago, Andy in Pa said:

Also, something else to consider is its unlikely you will find an HPD30 from a 4 cylinder XJ or MJ, so its likely that the gearing will not be correct, and you will need to regear the new axle.  I think that most 4 cylinder MJ's and XJ's had 4.10 gears.   Auto's had 3.55 gears mostly.

 

most 2.5s did have 4.10s   but 2.5L+4spdmanual = 3.55 so not all did and ya gotta verify before buying.

[OldSch88L]

Hey there McDougal, concerning that rear bumper, I live in Quebec, and the best price I found for mine was at TDot Performance. Just search for Westin bumpers. They're available in black and come with license plate lights. Be aware that the hardware (brackets and bolts) must be purchased separatly and I couldn't find them on their site, but they do sell them. I wrote them and they gave me the part#, only then, if you search with the part# will you find them on the site. You may find better prices at Jeg's or Summit, but beleive me, once you throw shipping, border clearance fees and exchange rate, you'll see that TDot is hard to beat. Plus, they have free shipping in Canada on purchases over 100$ IIRC, and they are located in Ontario so you'll get it on your doorstep in no-time!!!

 

https://www.tdotperformance.ca/westin-63000-diamondstep-universal-style-rear-bumper-black.html

[Andy in Pa]

13 hours ago, Pete M said:

 

most 2.5s did have 4.10s   but 2.5L+4spdmanual = 3.55 so not all did and ya gotta verify before buying.

That's interesting, I was thinking the 4cylinder 4 spds may have had 3.73's or maybe 4.56's or something a bit more "off the reservation".  Or was that the 4cyl autos?    I have never run into them personally, but it seems I have read that there are a few unique gear ranges involved when it comes to the 4cylinders in XJ's and MJ's.

 

No matter what, definitely check before buying!!

[Pete M]

2.5 + auto = 4.56   

 

the 4spd manual didn't have an overdrive, so they stuck with a 3.55

 

keep in mind that 86 was a bit weird and they hadn't fully settled on the standard ratios yet so other combos could exist. 

[89 MJ]

To elaborate more on what Pete is saying about odd gearing, I once pulled some parts off of an 84 XJ. The XJ was beautiful with 48K miles on it (they wouldn't let me buy it whole). I really should have bought more parts off of it, but I wasn't as XJ/MJ smart then. Anyways, it was a 4 cyl, 5 speed, 4x4, with 3.73 gears.

[McDougal]

On 12/20/2020 at 9:12 PM, Pete M said:

 

most 2.5s did have 4.10s   but 2.5L+4spdmanual = 3.55 so not all did and ya gotta verify before buying.

 

So mine is a 2.5 5 Speed manual, and here are some pictures my buddy sent me. Sorry they might not be the best shots, I will take some axle wide shots when I go up there next. Let me know what you think and welcome to my mess haha!

 

The more I learn about these Jeeps the more interested I become in them

[McDougal]

On 12/20/2020 at 4:40 PM, gogmorgo said:

There’s some truth to the high pinion being stronger, mostly in that it pushes the “correct” direction on the gear teeth. The other advantage is that it lifts your driveshaft a bit further off the ground.

But that’s not to say there’s anything wrong with a low-pinion axle, they’re not blowing apart left right and centre. It’s just less desirable for the above reasons.
 

That axle looks to me like an hp30. Calliper brackets integral to the knuckles tell me it’s ‘91+. Like you said, the wheel blocks telling if it’s CAD or not, and given it’s 1/8” in the difference between ujoint caps, it’s not something I can call at this resolution, and probably not at all from a photo. 1.188” (~1-3/16”) vs 1.063” (~1-1/16”).

Hey Gogo, I uploaded some pictures of my axles. Let me know what you think!

 

Big project or small, were going for it!

 

This Jeep has 24,500 on the dash, if only it was parked inside. Hoping for the best on the internals. When I took off the front wheels there were still the original washers on the bolts on the wheel hubs!

 

Cheers, Joe

[McDougal]

Did everyone go back to work or somethin?

[Pete M]

I have the memory of a goldfish.   what's your question? 

[McDougal]

10 minutes ago, Pete M said:

I have the memory of a goldfish.   what's your question? 

 

Haha so at this point I have replacement Ujoints that I can put in but I'm wondering if it makes sense to just replace the axles to the 95-99. Or do I have to change more than just the axles in order to do that? I was also wondering if you can see the vaccuum on this one and if it is CAD

 

I think I want to keep it as original as possible and maybe upgrade the axles if it makes sense

 

Next time I go up I am just going to start tearing it all apart

[Pete M]

as rusty as that is and as much work as it'll need, I'd probably buy a clean whole axle and swap that in (always buy brakes/bearings/etc for the year of the axle as some things changed slightly over the years).  but that's just me.  I dealt with rusty parts for most my life and avoid it whenever possible.   if you want, you can retain the current axle behind your garage, but there's nothing on it that would indicate that it's the original axle (as compared to another CAD axle).  there might be a link to a writeup on swapping in later shafts in the link in my signature.  

 

this is your CAD (central axle disconnect)

 

 

[McDougal]

On 12/29/2020 at 11:39 AM, Pete M said:

as rusty as that is and as much work as it'll need, I'd probably buy a clean whole axle and swap that in (always buy brakes/bearings/etc for the year of the axle as some things changed slightly over the years).  but that's just me.  I dealt with rusty parts for most my life and avoid it whenever possible.   if you want, you can retain the current axle behind your garage, but there's nothing on it that would indicate that it's the original axle (as compared to another CAD axle).  there might be a link to a writeup on swapping in later shafts in the link in my signature.  

 

 

 

 

 

Whats your best advice for finding a whole new axle?

 

Its going to need a bunch of new hardware anyways so the new axle may be the way to go. 

[MiNi Beast]

do it. once all new hardware and parts it will last longer and in turn be more reliable. order it, junk yard it or just order a part at a time and rebuild yours completely.  

[Pete M]

car-part.com is where I would start hunting.  be picky about the axle you choose.  this is an investment in your future time and (lack of) headaches.  

[McDougal]

So at this point I will be looking for  as setup from a 95-99 XJ with a 4.10 for the easiest install and strongest setup?

[MiNi Beast]

you want hp though avoid lp d30

[McDougal]

Is there a list of what models have HP stock? or do I just look at the placement of the driveshaft

 

I found a 1998 XJ that I think would be a good parts vehicle as long as the axles arent too rusty. I could also use some of the body panels and the power windows so I was thinking this would be a good donor vehicle. 

 

Would this have the axle setup I need? And would I only have to change the front?

 

If this is the right Jeep I will get it in the next week or so and have most of the parts to fix my manche

 

Thanks again guys

 

https://www.kijiji.ca/v-cars-trucks/stratford-on/1998-jeep-cherokee-xj-lifted/1539187872?undefined

 

 

[MiNi Beast]

start swapping.