sound insulation?

[War_Pony89]

What did y'all do for heat and sound insulation?

[Pete M]

35 minutes ago, War_Pony89 said:

What did y'all do for heat and sound insulation?

 

moved to tech for ya.   

 

do you currently have the carpet and overhead liner in your truck?

[War_Pony89]

1 hour ago, Pete M said:

 

moved to tech for ya.   

 

do you currently have the carpet and overhead liner in your truck?

Huh, thought I was in Tech.... I don't know where I am anymore.

 

I got samples from this one outfit and just need to call it in. Like  $125 pre-cut and molded.

 

Haven't started on the liner yet, but fix'n too. Sounds llike you might have some info?

[Pete M]

carpet is only made by ACC (auto custom carpets?).  all others are resellers so find whichever has the best deal or that you trust might actually ship in a timely manner. 

 

for headliners there's a guy in our Vendors' part of the classifieds that makes new ones.  

 

how clean are your floorboards?

[WahooSteeler]

If you are asking/looking for additional sound and heat insulation in addition to your carpet and headliner, Noico 80 mil is very competitively priced compared to Fatmat, Kilmat and Dynamat. I used Noico in my truck recently on the entire floorboard area, C pillars, roof and inside the doors, huge difference. 

[Minuit]

How quiet do you want it?

 

How many days are you willing to spend cutting, measuring, and trimming pieces of material to fit? There's only so much you can do with stick-on vibration damper.

 

Also, how clean are your floorboards?

[War_Pony89]

ugh, floor boards, need some work. patched and POR 15 finished. Then a few months of dirt and maybe some fuel injector spilled passenger side.  Plan is to take seat out and clean. What should I use?

[War_Pony89]

1 hour ago, WahooSteeler said:

If you are asking/looking for additional sound and heat insulation in addition to your carpet and headliner, Noico 80 mil is very competitively priced compared to Fatmat, Kilmat and Dynamat. I used Noico in my truck recently on the entire floorboard area, C pillars, roof and inside the doors, huge difference. 

yes, need a bit more than carpet can afford. Phone calls and such driving on mud tires....I know there is a limit, but puttying best foot forward. I will check out Noico. Thanks

 

[War_Pony89]

3 hours ago, Pete M said:

carpet is only made by ACC (auto custom carpets?).  all others are resellers so find whichever has the best deal or that you trust might actually ship in a timely manner. 

 

for headliners there's a guy in our Vendors' part of the classifieds that makes new ones.  

 

how clean are your floorboards?

I have the link at work. forget the name. They were kind enough to send samples with different piles.

[Pete M]

search the CC for previous topics covering new carpet installation.    there might even be one in the link in my sig (if there isn't, there should be)

[ghetdjc320]

I used dynamat on the floor and installed acc carpet with mass backing. If you can be more specific of what noise you are trying to eliminate that would be helpful. Are your referring to road noise, engine noise, wind noise, improving sound for your speakers? All have different solutions. You can make your MJ quiet as a new Mercedes but it will take plenty of work. Here are a few basic ideas: Get rid of any rattles in the cab first. Listen carefully and try to track down any loose panels or components. Make sure there are no open holes in your firewall that lead into the cab. Make sure your window seals and door seals are nice and tight. Grease your chasis and suspension components to get rid of squeaks. Check you bushing and also check for any missing body plugs that lead to the cab. Check for exhaust leaks. Once all those things are eliminated then you can move in to treating the cab 

[War_Pony89]

10 hours ago, ghetdjc320 said:

I used dynamat on the floor and installed acc carpet with mass backing. If you can be more specific of what noise you are trying to eliminate that would be helpful. Are your referring to road noise, engine noise, wind noise, improving sound for your speakers? All have different solutions. You can make your MJ quiet as a new Mercedes but it will take plenty of work. Here are a few basic ideas: Get rid of any rattles in the cab first. Listen carefully and try to track down any loose panels or components. Make sure there are no open holes in your firewall that lead into the cab. Make sure your window seals and door seals are nice and tight. Grease your chasis and suspension components to get rid of squeaks. Check you bushing and also check for any missing body plugs that lead to the cab. Check for exhaust leaks. Once all those things are eliminated then you can move in to treating the cab 

Main issue is road and wind noise (Highway). I know my driver side door seal has about a 1/16 inch gap at the top. hoping a 97 door seal will fill the gap? 

 

Also my 4wheel drive selector plate was removed to fit aftermarket shiftier. I don't recall why, but when I went from a BA-10 to AX-15, the linkage would not work and ended up with a aftermarket piece. Do you know if the shifting floor plates for BA-10 and AX-15 are the same? I think they are, maybe just the factory linkage was different?

I'm thinking I can cut the stock plate to fill in most the space.

 

Is there any advantage to coating the interior with say liquid Bed liner before putting down the Dynamat or NOICO? I am undecided on what type of carpet backing. Prior water leaks rotted the floors, so not sure how much absorption I want inside. Leaks are just about fixed. last is rear window seal.

[Minuit]

Understand that treating the cab with vibration dampers and other treatments like that will do next to nothing to keep wind noise away. Wind noise is created by gaps in the cab's "bubble", and to a lesser extent by turbulence caused by mirrors, door handles, and the general shape of the truck. Fix the wind noise by fixing the gaps. It will be difficult to reduce wind noise much below the amount your truck had when it was new. All cars have some amount of wind noise, but it'll be up to you to decide how much is too much.

 

I'm of the opinion that the larger weatherstripping you can get is a band-aid on an axe wound and does not solve the real problem, which is usually some form of "the door doesn't fit in the door hole anymore" - some work might be required to the door hinges if your doors sag. You might have to bend the door frame back into shape if there's a gap along the top.

 

As far as water goes, you want no absorbent materials on the floor. As you know, the main cause of floor rust is water leaks into the interior. When treating your truck, assume it'll happen again. Do everything you can to prevent it from happening, but if water gets in, you want your floor to be treated with things that don't absorb the water and hold it against the steel. Your new carpet will probably come with Jute padding. Throw it in the garbage and use closed cell foam for a carpet underlayment.

 

The adhesive on vibration damping materials can lift and trap moisture behind it. The cheaper, the worse the adhesive usually is. I would suggest limiting your Dynamat/whatever applications to places where water can't pool. That basically means everywhere but where your feet go is OK. I'd also advise caution when sticking Dynamat to the vertical skin of the door. I'll need to re-skin my driver side door on my 91 because the factory sound deadening material delaminated and trapped some water against the sheet metal, eventually rusting it out.

[ratty]

23 hours ago, WahooSteeler said:

If you are asking/looking for additional sound and heat insulation in addition to your carpet and headliner, Noico 80 mil is very competitively priced compared to Fatmat, Kilmat and Dynamat. I used Noico in my truck recently on the entire floorboard area, C pillars, roof and inside the doors, huge difference. 

Just did the same! Game changer 

[ghetdjc320]

6 hours ago, Minuit said:

Understand that treating the cab with vibration dampers and other treatments like that will do next to nothing to keep wind noise away. Wind noise is created by gaps in the cab's "bubble", and to a lesser extent by turbulence caused by mirrors, door handles, and the general shape of the truck. Fix the wind noise by fixing the gaps. It will be difficult to reduce wind noise much below the amount your truck had when it was new. All cars have some amount of wind noise, but it'll be up to you to decide how much is too much.

 

I'm of the opinion that the larger weatherstripping you can get is a band-aid on an axe wound and does not solve the real problem, which is usually some form of "the door doesn't fit in the door hole anymore" - some work might be required to the door hinges if your doors sag. You might have to bend the door frame back into shape if there's a gap along the top.

 

As far as water goes, you want no absorbent materials on the floor. As you know, the main cause of floor rust is water leaks into the interior. When treating your truck, assume it'll happen again. Do everything you can to prevent it from happening, but if water gets in, you want your floor to be treated with things that don't absorb the water and hold it against the steel. Your new carpet will probably come with Jute padding. Throw it in the garbage and use closed cell foam for a carpet underlayment.

 

The adhesive on vibration damping materials can lift and trap moisture behind it. The cheaper, the worse the adhesive usually is. I would suggest limiting your Dynamat/whatever applications to places where water can't pool. That basically means everywhere but where your feet go is OK. I'd also advise caution when sticking Dynamat to the vertical skin of the door. I'll need to re-skin my driver side door on my 91 because the factory sound deadening material delaminated and trapped some water against the sheet metal, eventually rusting it out.

     In other words, fix your leaks first lol. Minuit and I will both give you a ton of info on the subject (probably tmi). I do have to disagree with chucking the jute backing though. Although closed cell foam will not absorb moisture it also doesn’t “breathe” at all. So basically, it traps moisture under the carpet much more than the more absorbent jute backing which, although it absorbs moisture, also acts as a bit of a wick over time. Noico does work fine as well for dampening panels. There are several aspects to creating a quieter cab.
     In regards to wind noise, I doubt you are wanting to redesign the cab of your truck. The 97+ doors have a updated sealing design that is indeed quieter. The issue is gaps as Minuit pointed out. Gaps (particularly mismatched gaps) cause turbulence which creates wind noise. Make sure you have all your seals in place. Of particular note is the oem A pillar wind guard which does help quiet down wind noise a decent amount. 
     If you want to go beyond that, build a cab within a cab. Isolate, dampen and absorb. Basic principles of all acoustic treatment. 
     

[ghetdjc320]

9 hours ago, War_Pony89 said:

Main issue is road and wind noise (Highway). I know my driver side door seal has about a 1/16 inch gap at the top. hoping a 97 door seal will fill the gap? 

 

Also my 4wheel drive selector plate was removed to fit aftermarket shiftier. I don't recall why, but when I went from a BA-10 to AX-15, the linkage would not work and ended up with a aftermarket piece. Do you know if the shifting floor plates for BA-10 and AX-15 are the same? I think they are, maybe just the factory linkage was different?

I'm thinking I can cut the stock plate to fill in most the space.

 

Is there any advantage to coating the interior with say liquid Bed liner before putting down the Dynamat or NOICO? I am undecided on what type of carpet backing. Prior water leaks rotted the floors, so not sure how much absorption I want inside. Leaks are just about fixed. last is rear window seal.

As far as I know, the 97+ doors have to be swapped to run the newer seals. If the floors have been replaced and don’t have any leaks then many use a seam sealer and/or por15. Personally I wouldn’t use bedliner unless that will be the final surface (no carpet).

[Minuit]

16 minutes ago, ghetdjc320 said:

     In other words, fix your leaks first lol. Minuit and I will both give you a ton of info on the subject (probably tmi). I do have to disagree with chucking the jute backing though. Although closed cell foam will not absorb moisture it also doesn’t “breathe” at all.
     

Do you want six eggs, or half a dozen?

 

In an ideal world, the OP extensively leak tests his truck before worrying about carpet or sound deadening, his truck doesn't leak, and he never has to worry about water on the floors ever again. If he doesn't leak test his truck and fix the leaks that do exist, he's negligent and his floors will rust and his truck will smell musty again no matter what he does. Even if the leaks are fixed, a Jeep's nature is to leak, so it very well could happen again.

 

If he uses jute padding, water leaks under the carpet, gets absorbed into the padding, and some amount of water stays against the floor because water is probably coming in faster than it can evaporate. Truck will start smelling musty because there's a huge wet sponge under the carpet.

 

If he uses closed cell foam (preferably with some MLV on top of it), water leaks under the carpet, gets trapped between the floor and the foam, and some amount of water stays against the floor because water is probably coming in faster than it can evaporate. Truck might take a little longer to smell musty, because even though there might not be a wet sponge

 

So yeah, fix the leaks. Once water gets into the cab, any difference in the materials used is pretty much academic. In the event the carpet needs to be removed, the foam can probably be reused, but if the jute has ever been wet, it's probably not worth reusing.

 

I think no matter what carpet underlayment gets used, the OP really should consider lining everything below the glass with mass loaded vinyl. That will make an even bigger impact in the road noise level.

[ghetdjc320]

28 minutes ago, Minuit said:

Do you want six eggs, or half a dozen?

 

In an ideal world, the OP extensively leak tests his truck before worrying about carpet or sound deadening, his truck doesn't leak, and he never has to worry about water on the floors ever again. If he doesn't leak test his truck and fix the leaks that do exist, he's negligent and his floors will rust and his truck will smell musty again no matter what he does. Even if the leaks are fixed, a Jeep's nature is to leak, so it very well could happen again.

 

If he uses jute padding, water leaks under the carpet, gets absorbed into the padding, and some amount of water stays against the floor because water is probably coming in faster than it can evaporate. Truck will start smelling musty because there's a huge wet sponge under the carpet.

 

If he uses closed cell foam (preferably with some MLV on top of it), water leaks under the carpet, gets trapped between the floor and the foam, and some amount of water stays against the floor because water is probably coming in faster than it can evaporate. Truck might take a little longer to smell musty, because even though there might not be a wet sponge

 

So yeah, fix the leaks. Once water gets into the cab, any difference in the materials used is pretty much academic. In the event the carpet needs to be removed, the foam can probably be reused, but if the jute has ever been wet, it's probably not worth reusing.

 

I think no matter what carpet underlayment gets used, the OP really should consider lining everything below the glass with mass loaded vinyl. That will make an even bigger impact in the road noise level.

That’s pretty much what I just said. Except closed cell foam is worse than jute for trapping water. 

[Minuit]

33 minutes ago, ghetdjc320 said:

That’s pretty much what I just said. Except closed cell foam is worse than jute for trapping water. 

I don't agree, but this subject is a complete waste of time anyway.

[ghetdjc320]

[War_Pony89]

Thank you all for the input, Leaks first. Going to tackle the rear window seal. hit the car wash and see how I do. Paint should be cured in a week or two.

[War_Pony89]

Last leak should be fixed, rear window adhesive was not sticking anymore in the middle upper and lower sections.  Found a guy in town who does headliners. Plan to take it to him Monday. In the meantime looking to by some Dynamat, Did y'all go with the Xtreme or regular. Seems like the xtreme would be appropriate.

 

For application to the roof. I've heard a central mounted section will do wonders to kill roof noise? Or should I line the whole roof? 

 

I think I found why I have a gap on the drivers side. lower hinge has a lot of play causing the door to slope downward and creating the gap i see. Not sure if its the Pin or hinge itself.  31 years opening and closing I'm thinking both are suspect but a new pin looks like it is an easy fix

[rokinn]

If your experience with door hinges is similar to mine you will find the pin to not be worn very much and the body side portion of the hinge to be quite worn  The pins appear to be much harder than the steel of the hinges.  Hinge on the door itself wasn't worn at all either.  I used these to correct the hinge slop.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MND8LIA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Drilled hinge out to 5/16ths, tapped them in, installed new pins and voila, like new.  I tried 5'16ths bolts I bought also but removed them for the pins.  Much tighter fit.  I don't recall where I got the pins.  

[War_Pony89]

42 minutes ago, rokinn said:

Gotcha, put in a new sleeve and pins in the hinge. Crown automotive says they have the pins for .99. With softer metal drilling the hinge should not be too difficult?

appreciate the info.

42 minutes ago, rokinn said:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00MND8LIA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Drilled hinge out to 5/16ths, tapped them in, installed new pins and voila, like new.  I tried 5'16ths bolts I bought also but removed them for the pins.  Much tighter fit.  I don't recall where I got the pins.  

 

[War_Pony89]

This is the pin link  https://www.quadratec.com/p/crown-automotive/door-hinge-pin-jeep-cherokee-xj-and-comanche-mj