Jeep Driver Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 1 hour ago, NC Tom said: Forgive my ignorance. The SurTrack CV shafts look totally different from what's there now. I'm assuming that the U-joint is in the boot and I won't need the Spicer joints I already have? There is no ujoint......CV joint. Mine came from a ZJ, I replaced one later from Auto Zone and it was $67. Pull the old one out and slide the new one in, that simple. For DD type driving with occasional use 4X.............CVs are just fine. Tight radius turning will improve 100000000%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 2 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: There is no ujoint......CV joint. Mine came from a ZJ, I replaced one later from Auto Zone and it was $67. Pull the old one out and slide the new one in, that simple. For DD type driving with occasional use 4X.............CVs are just fine. Tight radius turning will improve 100000000%. I'm not sure if the ZJ ones will fit directly into his axle because of the tone ring for the ABS. I don't remember when everything changed, but the earlier unit bearings have a different (extra) seal on them which fouls on the tone ring, which is a leftover from when they didn't use a sealed bearing assembly inside the unit bearing. He can either run the newer unit bearings, which may cause issues with how his rotors/calipers are spaced, or just pull the tone ring off. I pulled the tone rings off mine. Those CVs are almost certainly stronger than the early 260X ujoints. They might even be as strong or stronger than the 760X joints, but there is no reliable data on this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Tom Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 Looking at this part listed as "exact fit." https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/cv-plus-new-cv-axle-assembly-ax-9370/11460893-P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 31 minutes ago, NC Tom said: Looking at this part listed as "exact fit." https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/cv-plus-new-cv-axle-assembly-ax-9370/11460893-P Unless they fixed it Advance Auto Parts will present you with the wrong axle there online presentation and part number is incorrect you're better off going with the AutoZone part if you're going to swap over to the CV axles and as dirty stated you'll need to remove the tone rings they're just lightly pressed on is really do you remove them in 5 minutes really easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Tom Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 8 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: There is no ujoint......CV joint. Ha Ha! I believe I heard the collective groan of ALL Comanche Club members when Jeep Driver had to point this out! DOH! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Tom Posted June 20, 2019 Author Share Posted June 20, 2019 4 hours ago, Jeep Driver said: Unless they fixed it Advance Auto Parts will present you with the wrong axle there online presentation and part number is incorrect you're better off going with the AutoZone part if you're going to swap over to the CV axles and as dirty stated you'll need to remove the tone rings they're just lightly pressed on is really do you remove them in 5 minutes really easy AutoZone showed no matches for my Manche. ? If anyone can post correct part numbers for left and right axles, that would be great! Also, cash-on-hand being short, I can change both axles but would have to keep old hubs for now. Anyone foresee a problem with this plan? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 20, 2019 Share Posted June 20, 2019 The ZJ ones are Cardone 663220 and 663221. Off Rockauto the pair of them is $107 CAD, or $81 USD. If you buy them it looks like a Timken unit bearing ships from the same warehouse, P/N 513107, $88 CAD or $67 USD each. The actual XJ/MJ CVs are Surtrack CH8220 and CH8221, about $50 CAD each or $38 USD. I have never purchased these but they should work, in theory at least, as they should be the ones used in rare applications with the NP229 or 228 or whatever fulltime Tcase. I did not purchase them because A) I have no idea if they actually fit and returning anything to Rockauto is horrible for me because it's cross border, and B) I do not know if they're as strong as the ZJ ones, which mattered to me. If you don't have the money to do the wheel bearings I would just pull the wheel bearing and axle shaft as a unit and put a new ujoint in it, and only on the side that's blown. The more stuff you try to take apart the more likely it's not going to go well. But that's me, everything I work on is rusty and having the stub shafts seized into the wheel bearings is common enough to be a real problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmorgo Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Yeah... Your trouble is removing the axle from the unit bearing, yes? If you're breaking tools, there aren't going to be many non-destructive methods of undoing the nut. The one I did successfully undo had a 3' breaker bar on it, braced by another guy with a 4' lining bar, and we still had an oxyacetylene torch on it to get some heat into the nut, which will cook the grease out of the bearings. I'm with Dirty on attempting the ujoint. The point of changing the shaft is to avoid having to get the old one out of the wheel bearing. If you hang onto the bearing, you need to get the shaft out of it. A new ujoint is probably all you need, and it's like $30. With careful handling you might even be able to change it without pulling the shaft, but that's definitely not the easy way. But with the shaft out, having the wheel bearing on the shaft shouldn't be a huge obstacle to changing it on a workbench, or tailgate, or wherever. I can't say I've had a problem with the ch8220/8221, I've probably only got about 30,000miles on them. Both boots are torn though. Don't know when specifically it happened, but the truck's been through some deep mud, pushed deep snow/ around, chunks of ice, been through brush, etc, so it's not a huge surprise. I would still say it's a worthwhile upgrade, especially for just a daily driver. The advantage of CVs over ujoints is the Constant Velocity. At high steering angles, the ujoints force the wheels to accelerate and decelerate every rotation, which leads to a feeling of wobbling, the steering wheel jerks around, etc. There's none of that at all with the CV shafts. Ironically after the talk of ZJ cv shafts, I've got to point out that my ZJ has ujoints, not CV's. It doesn't really look like the shafts have been changed, unless whoever did it bought used shafts. Must be a base model thing I'm guessing, along with the AX15 and np231. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 25 minutes ago, gogmorgo said: Ironically after the talk of ZJ cv shafts, I've got to point out that my ZJ has ujoints, not CV's. It doesn't really look like the shafts have been changed, unless whoever did it bought used shafts. Must be a base model thing I'm guessing, along with the AX15 and np231. I believe you only got them with the full time tcases. I think by the time they went to the WJ they all got them... But could be wrong. I don't dabble in that stuff really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 CVs came on the 5.2 and 5.9 ZJs. Pretty sure about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Tom Posted June 21, 2019 Author Share Posted June 21, 2019 10 hours ago, gogmorgo said: Yeah... Your trouble is removing the axle from the unit bearing, yes? Correct. If I'm following this process to change just the U-joint and NOT removing the axle nut: 1. Remove brake caliper and rotor 2. Remove the three hub bolts 3. Slide out hub, inner and outer axle shafts and U-joint (that's all?) From here it's not clear to me. To replace the just the U-joint, I would still need to remove the axle nut or no? Any seals or bearings need replacing? I've tried to find a step-by-step of video of this process with the axle nut still on, but no luck. OR, just toss the hub, axles and U-joints and replace with CV? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 You can smash a new ujoint into the axle with it still attached to the hub. It's just more awkward. So no, you don't have to take the big nut off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmorgo Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 We've got into the weeds on this. If your wheel bearing is still good, there's no need to replace it. Undoing the axle nut is a pain and so you're trying to avoid doing that. It's especially difficult to do without damaging the wheel bearing. Changing the ujoint without removing the axle nut is awkward but can be done. It's the most financially economical way to go about it. It'll probably be fine if the holes in the yokes aren't stretched out from rattling around, damage is unlikely if the ujoint caps are still around. If you can afford a new shaft and unit bearing, in my mind avoiding screwing around with the ujoint, axle nut, etc., is worth saving the time and hassle, but it's going to cost more money, obviously. Offhand I'll say your procedure is correct. The hub bolts are 12-point so require a socket if you don't have... I wanna say 12mm but maybe 13? Make sure you've got the correct size socket as 12-points can strip easily. Hitting them with a wire brush first to knock any dirt or loose rust off will help the a key sit properly. The bolts go into the hub from the back and the threads are exposed on the outer side of the hub, hit those with penetrating oil first, you want to be able to reuse the bolts. Getting the hub out of the bore in the knuckle might not be easy either. You might be able to get a chisel in behind the ears (where the bolts thread in) but I found a trick online, where you use a bolt to jam against something behind the hub, (possibly inside the ujoint yoke?) then fire up the truck and turn the steering wheel, using the power steering to push the hub out. Be careful doing this, as the far wheel on the ground could pull the truck off a precarious jack stand. The only bearings relevant here are the hub assembly/unit bearing/wheel bearing/whatever you want to call it. The bearings have their own seals, but you shouldn't have an issue with those. You do want to worry about the seal in the axle tube. It's down by the diff. Be careful sliding the axle shaft out of the diff to avoid damaging it. Replacing it means popping open the diff, pulling the axle shaft on the other side, and removing the diff carrier and bearings. I would leave it alone unless you've got signs of leaking, which would show as gear oil coming out the end of the axle tube before you pull the shaft. It's worth mentioning that you will get a small amount of gear oil out of the diff when you pull the axle shaft. Not a big issue, just top up the diff when you're done. Jacking up the side of the axle you're pulling will minimize oil loss, because gravity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted June 21, 2019 Share Posted June 21, 2019 Drive it to a heavy truck repair shop and have them bust the nuts with a 3/4 drive impact........pay them the $10 and be done with it....get on with life. Have them snug up to get you home.....swap your joints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Tom Posted July 19, 2019 Author Share Posted July 19, 2019 On 5/29/2019 at 12:12 PM, Pete M said: sounds like your ujoint needs replacing. grab the axle shaft and give it a shake. The Plus Sign shaped item inside should feel nice and tight with no wiggles. Yep. That's all it was all along. As much as I wanted to repair this myself, the old, seized components won the fight and I had to get a pro to do it. For reference: My garage charged $329.00 to replace the joint. I had no other issues, thankfully. However, while I'm adding to this topic, in general my suspension makes a lot of crunch, clank, slap sounds when traveling over bumps, potholes, etc. Other than the U-joint and new shocks, I've not had any work done underneath. Any ideas here on what I should check that would make for a noisy ride? I do not have any current handling issues. It's not a rubbing sound. It sounds like metal-on-metal. I cannot tell if it's more front or rear. Also, It's standard, no lift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete M Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 what do your sway bar links look like? any bushing left? is your exhaust contacting your trans crossmember? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted July 20, 2019 Share Posted July 20, 2019 56 minutes ago, Pete M said: what do your sway bar links look like? any bushing left? Beyond the links, if the bushings that hold the swaybar to the frame go out it will cause more noise, plus it allows the swaybar to shift over and contact other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NC Tom Posted August 9, 2019 Author Share Posted August 9, 2019 On 7/19/2019 at 10:54 PM, Pete M said: what do your sway bar links look like? any bushing left? is your exhaust contacting your trans crossmember? Bushings are cracked and black, but still there, mostly. I'll check on the exhaust. Didn't think to look at that. Any recommendations for bushing replacements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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