Axle swap...?

[DirtyComanche]

On 8/10/2018 at 8:53 PM, kryptronic said:

 

The width is dead on from what I recall, bolt pattern is different, but matches the popular to swap Wagoneer driver-drop D44 front.

 

The Wagoneer D44 swap is the most overrated/waste of time swap out there.

[kryptronic]

6 hours ago, DirtyComanche said:

 

The Wagoneer D44 swap is the most overrated/waste of time swap out there.

 

I agree with you.  OP mentioned a D44 front, so I brought it up.  The D30 is plenty stout for all but the most extreme builds.

[DirtyComanche]

1 hour ago, kryptronic said:

 

I agree with you.  OP mentioned a D44 front, so I brought it up.  The D30 is plenty stout for all but the most extreme builds.

 

I just repeat it every time I can so hopefully people stop thinking it's a great idea.

[Wounded_Fighter]

If you could use any axles, which would you go with?

excluding how much work would be involved.

[Pete M]

all depends on what I was building for.   A daily driver on 31s has different needs than a v8 rock climber.

[Wounded_Fighter]

2 hours ago, Pete M said:

all depends on what I was building for.   A daily driver on 31s has different needs than a v8 rock climber.

 

on both applications technically.

I plan on buying another MJ later down the line 

[Eagle]

3 hours ago, Wounded_Fighter said:

If you could use any axles, which would you go with?

excluding how much work would be involved.

 

I would use an MJ or XJ Dana 44 if I could find one for a reasonable price, mostly because that's the "right" (meaning correct) axle for the vehicle. Second choice would be the newer (97+) Chrysler 8.25" -- and I would seriously consider the disk brake version from the Kiddie Jeep.

[HOrnbrod]

3 hours ago, Wounded_Fighter said:

If you could use any axles, which would you go with?

excluding how much work would be involved.

 

MJ Dana 44 or MJ AMC20

[DirtyComanche]

1 hour ago, Wounded_Fighter said:

 

on both applications technically.

I plan on buying another MJ later down the line 

 

To build another "mild" truck like the one in my sig, I'd probably use JK axles.  I haven't fully researched that because I have no immediate plans to either change the current truck or build another like it, but I think in retrospect that I would have been better off selling the XJ D44 I had and not using an XJ D30.

 

For bigger stuff I don't really believe in using a D44 for anything.  D60 front, either a regular Ford or a Superduty one as they're the convenient driver side drop and high pinion (SD is a lot stronger out of the box, but there is some downsides), for a rear most of the HD truck axles are reasonable options.  I could see building a hybrid D44/D60 front if I had all the parts lying around and wanted to be a bit different, but there cost to benefit ratio isn't great.

 

I eyed up a set of Volvo C303 axles once and do regret not buying them.  There is some exotic swaps like that which make a lot of sense actually.

 

Choosing the right axles isn't an easy question to answer though, as there is many different options and many different considerations depending on exactly what you're doing...

[kryptronic]

51 minutes ago, Eagle said:

 

I would use an MJ or XJ Dana 44 if I could find one for a reasonable price, mostly because that's the "right" (meaning correct) axle for the vehicle. Second choice would be the newer (97+) Chrysler 8.25" -- and I would seriously consider the disk brake version from the Kiddie Jeep.

 

I"m a fan of doing the ZJ rear disc conversion for the D35 amd D44.  Is the KJ brake setip alot different?

[Pete M]

personally I'd go with the whole KJ 8.25 axle.  it's a couple inches wider and would better accommodate the MJ's wide butt.   

[Eagle]

1 hour ago, Pete M said:

personally I'd go with the whole KJ 8.25 axle.  it's a couple inches wider and would better accommodate the MJ's wide butt.   

 

That's a feature if you plan to run large tires on Jeep rims. On stock Jeep 15x7 rims, 31x10.50s have the sidewalls come very close to the inner fender and the leaf spring. I routinely came home from Paragon (off-road park, now closed) with the insides of the rear wheelwells polished smooth and black from the tires rubbing. Never happened on pavement, but close enough to be a potential issue anytime the axle would deflect other than straight up and down.

 

But you have to watch out if you run aftermarrket wheels with less backspacing than factory, or the tires will extend beyond the flares and you risk being ticketed.

[HOrnbrod]

I have an MJ D44 axle with 1-1/4" Spidertrax spacers on both sides, making the axle 2-1/2" wider than the stock. I run 31" tires on stock Jeep wheels (Turbines) and have a bit over 1-1/2" space between at the narrowest point between the tire sidewall and the inside of the rear wheel wells. I don't see how any axle could deflect that much for the tires to rub unless something was wrong. 

[DirtyComanche]

3 hours ago, HOrnbrod said:

Huh? I have an MJ D44 axle with 1-1/4" Spidertrax spacers on both sides, making the axle 2-1/2" wider than the stock. I run 31" tires on stock Jeep wheels (Turbines) and have a bit over 1-1/2" space between at the narrowest point between the tire sidewall and the inside of the rear wheel wells. I don't see how any axle could deflect that much for the tires to rub unless something was wrong. 

 

When the axle articulates the top of the tire tilts in.  Then it rubs.  It will make a big frowny faced mark.

 

Mine rub there.  Part of why I felt the JK axles would have been better, since I'm not willing to go to a wheel with less backspacing or add a spacer (there's already an adapter on it to go to 5x5 so I can use JK wheels).  The stock XJ/MJ axles are just too narrow if you're going to a much larger tire than stock.

[HOrnbrod]

1 minute ago, DirtyComanche said:

When the axle articulates the top of the tire tilts in.  Then it rubs.  It will make a big frowny faced mark.

 

Mine rub there.  Part of why I felt the JK axles would have been better, since I'm not willing to go to a wheel with less backspacing or add a spacer (there's already an adapter on it to go to 5x5 so I can use JK wheels).  The stock XJ/MJ axles are just too narrow if you're going to a much larger tire than stock.

 

Yep, makes sense. Never happened to mine though..  

[Eagle]

7 hours ago, HOrnbrod said:

I have an MJ D44 axle with 1-1/4" Spidertrax spacers on both sides, making the axle 2-1/2" wider than the stock. I run 31" tires on stock Jeep wheels (Turbines) and have a bit over 1-1/2" space between at the narrowest point between the tire sidewall and the inside of the rear wheel wells. I don't see how any axle could deflect that much for the tires to rub unless something was wrong. 

 

I was describing what happens withOUT spacers, Don. Installing the wider KJ axle is a functional equivalent of your spacers. It moves the tires out from the bodywork, eliminating or alleviating the rubbing.

[HOrnbrod]

Got it Mr. CAPS.     Missed the " inner fender" part. Any idea what the WMS-to-WMS is on a KJ axle?

[Pete M]

couple inches more than an MJ.  can't remember the actual number.  

 

[omega_rugal]

no one mentions the ford 8.8 so must be a bad choice...

 

also, is the zjs D44 that bad? so even a turdyfive is better?

[Pete M]

One of our members had a daily driver ZJ with the 44a.  he had to replace it (I thikn it roasted its bearings) and used a junkyard 44a.  then he had to replace that one (what ever the problem was it happened again) and used a 35.  was smooth sailing after that.     There are Jeepers out there that have used the 44a to good effect, but there are also guys flogging away at dana 35s so your mileage may vary.   

[DirtyComanche]

8 hours ago, omega_rugal said:

no one mentions the ford 8.8 so must be a bad choice...

 

also, is the zjs D44 that bad? so even a turdyfive is better?

 

I thought somebody mentioned the 8.8 already?  IMHO it's a good deal, but you really should drop the $650 (or whatever it is) on the c-clip eliminator kit.  That mostly fixes the width issue, and gets rid of the c-clips.

 

The ZJ D44A is just all around bad news.  It doesn't take normal parts, has weak bearings, weak housing, weak tubes, and generally just falls apart.  I mean, you could use it, but why?  There's way better options for the same junkyard price.  If anything you might pay a premium for the ZJ D44A from a wrecker as they're so problematic that people always need them.