coolwind57 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Got my tranny bolted back up my MJ on Sunday. Got bellhousing bolts on, got both driveshafts hooked up and vac/wiring hooked up. Tonight, I thought I'd get my four flex bolts installed. I went to rotate my crankshaft to align the holes and found that I cannot budge it. Notice in my pic, that the flex plate is very close to the bellhousing edge and the inspection cover. I'm talking like 1/16" from touching. I think this means that I probably put the #@!n flex plate in backwards. At least I'm guessing that's the issue. I can't seem to mentally picture at the moment how I had oriented these plates. I had no concerns where I was reassembling. Now it looks that I have to drop my transmission again. By the pic, does this seem to be the case to you guys too? Yea, go ahead and make fun. I assure you that you cannot possibly make me feel more like a turd that I already feel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmorgo Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Ring gear side goes towards the engine. Looks like it's right to me, although yeah, if you can't turn the engine over then something's wrong. Is there a chance something's jammed in the ring gear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrankTheDog Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 You may not engaged the pump correctly with the torque converter. Did you try turning the engine over in neutral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyComanche Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 1 minute ago, FrankTheDog said: You may not engaged the pump correctly with the torque converter. That would be the big concern. If it came 'close' when installing the tranny, and then it was sucked together with the bolts... You might well have mangled things that don't like to be mangled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Definitely pull it apart and check your torque converter engagement on the pump. You should feel/hear 3 clicks as it seats into the trans. This is by far the most important thing to check because you will destroy the trans if it's wrong. When I did mine, I actually had to loosen my bellhousing bolts a turn or two otherwise my engine was extremely hard to turn over. It helped immensely when trying to line up the flexplate. But again, make sure the torque converter is engaged properly!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolwind57 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 9 hours ago, FrankTheDog said: You may not engaged the pump correctly with the torque converter. Did you try turning the engine over in neutral? I did. Still didn't budge. 8 hours ago, Dzimm said: Definitely pull it apart and check your torque converter engagement on the pump. You should feel/hear 3 clicks as it seats into the trans. This is by far the most important thing to check because you will destroy the trans if it's wrong. This might be the issue, then. I pushed the torque converter onto the transmission--didn't know to listen for 3-clicks.. Amateur mistake, fellas. I just didn't know. 9 hours ago, DirtyComanche said: That would be the big concern. If it came 'close' when installing the tranny, and then it was sucked together with the bolts... You might well have mangled things that don't like to be mangled. Yes, I'm scared now. Anxious to pull and see what's going on in there. Thank you so much for your input. I'll update. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolwind57 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 8 hours ago, Dzimm said: When I did mine, I actually had to loosen my bellhousing bolts a turn or two otherwise my engine was extremely hard to turn over. It helped immensely when trying to line up the flexplate. I'm tempted to try this first....just to see if it feels like it's going to rotate. I'd hate to unnecessarily pull the transmission, as this will consume nearly a full day as I am by myself...but then again, I'd also hate to booger up Torque converter/pump engagement by attempting it.... I remember pushing the torque converted onto the transmission. Was I suppose to rotate a bit (or wiggle) to hear the clicks, or simply push straight forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 10 minutes ago, coolwind57 said: I'm tempted to try this first....just to see if it feels like it's going to rotate. I'd hate to unnecessarily pull the transmission, as this will consume nearly a full day as I am by myself...but then again, I'd also hate to booger up Torque converter/pump engagement by attempting it.... I remember pushing the torque converted onto the transmission. Was I suppose to rotate a bit (or wiggle) to hear the clicks, or simply push straight forward? I hear about not wanting to pull the trans by yourself, that's exactly what I had to do when I screwed up the engagement myself and it sucked. You will have to do some wiggling and slight rotating to get it to engage. How easy did the bellhousing mate to the engine? Did it seem like you were using the bolts to bring it forward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolwind57 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Dzimm said: How easy did the bellhousing mate to the engine? Did it seem like you were using the bolts to bring it forward? Yes, maybe a bit as I recall. ...This sounds like bad news. I certainly didn't feel as if I was forcing anything. That never entered my mind during the reinstalled. It certainly didn't slap together like a magnet, but I recall bringing it together with the first bolt. Again, didn't seem excessive at the time. 2 hours ago, Dzimm said: I hear about not wanting to pull the trans by yourself, that's exactly what I had to do when I screwed up the engagement myself and it sucked. So when you did your screw-up, did anything inside there get mangled? How bad was your result? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 15 minutes ago, coolwind57 said: Yes, maybe a bit as I recall. ...This sounds like bad news. I certainly didn't feel as if I was forcing anything. That never entered my mind during the reinstalled. It certainly didn't slap together like a magnet, but I recall bringing it together with the first bolt. Again, didn't seem excessive at the time. So when you did your screw-up, did anything inside there get mangled? How bad was your result? No mine was fine. As long as you don't start the engine, you shouldn't do any real damage to anything. When it's setup right, everything will just slide together nicely. You may have to do some pushing on the trans to get it to mate with the block but nothing crazy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjeff87 Posted March 1, 2018 Share Posted March 1, 2018 Seat the converter, it will make a hard stop. Rotate it about 1/8th of a revolution, it should drop slightly and stop again. Rotate it another 1/8th turn (approximately) and it should drop and stop again. Then it is fully seated. Ideally you would want to do this with the trans vertical, standing on the tailshaft (like inside a garbage can/dru/stack of used tires, etc), but you can do it horizontally as long as you get the two extra "clunks" after the first one. There is an actual measurement for how low the TC body sits relative to the outside edge of the bellhousing but for the life of me I can't find it. Just get the three clunks and you are golden. I would pull the trans back off the engine and pull the TC back out and inspect the seal before trying to reinstall it. Like Dzimm said, so long as you didn't actually start the engine you "should" be ok, but it would be hell for you to get it all buttoned back up correctly and have that .50c seal leaking. EDIT: this is a decent video (crappy audio) that explains the install process. Not an AW4, but it's the same procedure. HTH. Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolwind57 Posted March 1, 2018 Author Share Posted March 1, 2018 Wow! Really appreciate the help, fellas. I wish I would had looked more into this before I installed. I have certainly learned the hard way. Just hoping i didn't mess anything up. I'll update when i find the time to pull again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolwind57 Posted March 7, 2018 Author Share Posted March 7, 2018 On 3/1/2018 at 9:46 AM, mjeff87 said: Seat the converter, it will make a hard stop. Rotate it about 1/8th of a revolution, it should drop slightly and stop again. Rotate it another 1/8th turn (approximately) and it should drop and stop again. Then it is fully seated. Ideally you would want to do this with the trans vertical, standing on the tailshaft (like inside a garbage can/dru/stack of used tires, etc), but you can do it horizontally as long as you get the two extra "clunks" after the first one. There is an actual measurement for how low the TC body sits relative to the outside edge of the bellhousing but for the life of me I can't find it. Just get the three clunks and you are golden. I would pull the trans back off the engine and pull the TC back out and inspect the seal before trying to reinstall it. Like Dzimm said, so long as you didn't actually start the engine you "should" be ok, but it would be hell for you to get it all buttoned back up correctly and have that .50c seal leaking. More bad news, it seems. I did pull the transmission again. As I had it laying horizontal, I decided not to pull the TC off, but rather I rotated slightly to see what happens and it pushed in deeply. That was a good sign. It moved even more significantly deeper that I had imagined it would. I did not hear any click, but that sucker moved in wonderfully. I rotated more and pushed, but could not get it to go any deeper. It felt like to me that although I didn't feel it go deeper a second time, but it was probably seated all the way. As i recalled, I was thinking that this WAS the final step deep into the transmission. In hind site, I should had pulled the TC and at least inspected the seal. I would had also had a more definite count of how many "step-downs" I had as the TC pressed into the transmission. On 3/1/2018 at 9:17 AM, Dzimm said: As long as you don't start the engine, you shouldn't do any real damage to anything. When it's setup right, everything will just slide together nicely. You may have to do some pushing on the trans to get it to mate with the block but nothing crazy Unfortunately, I did start the engine as I thought all was good. I immediately began hearing a moderate metal ticking sound emitted from the bell housing. My first reaction was that a loose bolt was inside there or something....or I left a flex plate bolt sticking out untightened. Now, I'm fearing the worst. What gets me is that another indication that made me feel that I had the TC seated correctly is the fact that the transmission mated the engine like two magnets this time. Went together like a dream, no resistance. I thought I nailed it. Looks like I'm pulling the transmission again this weekend to assess the damage. Hoping its something simple when I look through the bell housing inspection cover, but this is probably wishful thinking. I may have just chewed up my transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmorgo Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Make sure all the bolts are tight first. 40lb-ft. Blue locktite too probably. You'll want to run around the circle (four bolts are a square?) a few times just to make sure everything's seated properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolwind57 Posted March 9, 2018 Author Share Posted March 9, 2018 Good news today! No transmission got hurt in the making of this thread! I had simply placed the bell housing inspection cover on backwards. My flex plate bolts were making contact, causing all that rukus. Still feel like a ding-dong, but I'm relieved that I didn't jack up my transmission after all. Now I just got to figure out what to do with all of the money I just saved from not having to rebuild my transmission.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveevryjp1998 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 After reading this I think I know what killed my 91 xj transmission. I bought a 91 xj from a wrecker who had a barn full of parts next to it and I noticed a complete transmission and transfer case next to it and the ownee said he had swapped it out and it slipped too but not as bad. He said he was tired of messing with it, we reached an agreement on price(cheap scap prices) and off I drove with a mild slipping transmission. The motor ran like a top it had been swapped too. Anyway it made it a year about 10,00 miles and bamm lost the trans. Gutted it for parts and soon as I started to pull the bellhousing bolts, inspection plate and starter boom there was a clue. The starter had been shaved by the flywheel and it had been leaking fluid since I drove off that day. As it got worse I kept driving it and it kept slipping worse and I kept adding more. I have a tendancy to buy the turds just before the wrecker comes for em and see how long I can keep em on the road just adding fluids and sometimes its a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveevryjp1998 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 Also I have owned 3 different xjs that had all sat for a couple years. After getting them going and on the road driving them awhile each one had eventually started to get loose flywheel bolts. Now I inspect this on new heeps entering the "yard" it freaked me out the first time as the ticking eventually became thunking but I never lost a bolt. They back out to inspection plate and rub. It took about half the bolt head on two bolts before I pinpointed it down on the first time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saveevryjp1998 Posted March 9, 2018 Share Posted March 9, 2018 They were also from different owners too so no funny business there. After speaking with other jeep guys have found this to be more common than you would know as well as the front "cheap" seal you refered to earlier as dry rotting from sitting too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted March 10, 2018 Share Posted March 10, 2018 4 hours ago, coolwind57 said: Good news today! No transmission got hurt in the making of this thread! I had simply placed the bell housing inspection cover on backwards. My flex plate bolts were making contact, causing all that rukus. Still feel like a ding-dong, but I'm relieved that I didn't jack up my transmission after all. Now I just got to figure out what to do with all of the money I just saved from not having to rebuild my transmission.... Good to hear! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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