Dzimm Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 So I'm poking around trying to figure out what I want to do for power in my next project. What I want: - It's gotta be a Comanche - It's gotta go fast - It's gotta corner well - I'm trying to stay super cheap, like $2500 max. I want to build some sort of rally/track/autocross type Comanche and have been trying to figure out what I want to do for a power plant. I have considered doing an LS swap but even doing it the "cheap" way like you see Sloppy Mechanics do it, it's more than I want to spend. My other option is to get an MJ with a 4.0 HO in it or transplant one in and then turbo it. I have never done anything with turbos and have learned a lot in the last few days of research. I feel confident I can buy a Comanche, do maintenance and repairs it needs, and turbo it for under $2500. - What I want to know though is if any of you guys have any experience with a turbo on a Jeep 4.0 that you could share? - Pretty much all the turbos in XJs and Wranglers seem to live on the passenger side, is there a reason for this? I plan to mount everything on the drivers side in place of the factory airbox to keep the piping runs short. - Anybody with turbo experience have recommendations on what turbos and accessory equipment would be good options for this application and budget? This project is still in the very beginning of planning phase so I'm a lonnnnggg way from buying parts and building the truck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Mesa XJ Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 Um, I haven't seen the jeep turbo kits, on general the early turbo cars had trouble routing the air intake. Later designs use every inch of the engine bay to route the pips for intake, intercooler and exhaust. If the jeep turbo is all on the passenger side it sounds like they divert the exhaust to go there, U bend or something. Then a new down pipe and wastegate to the rest of the exhaust. Doesn't make a lot of sense aside from the passenger side is the only place where room can be made easily. I'd almost think supercharging or stroked engine would be easier. Just speaking for the turbo part of it a good turbo will set you back more than what you want to spend, you can get a Chinese kit but it'll be junk after too long. Everyone I've known who ran one never had it run for very long. Fun for the short term but it has to be caught before it self destructs. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 Um, I haven't seen the jeep turbo kits, on general the early turbo cars had trouble routing the air intake. Later designs use every inch of the engine bay to route the pips for intake, intercooler and exhaust. If the jeep turbo is all on the passenger side it sounds like they divert the exhaust to go there, U bend or something. Then a new down pipe and wastegate to the rest of the exhaust. Doesn't make a lot of sense aside from the passenger side is the only place where room can be made easily. I'd almost think supercharging or stroked engine would be easier. Just speaking for the turbo part of it a good turbo will set you back more than what you want to spend, you can get a Chinese kit but it'll be junk after too long. Everyone I've known who ran one never had it run for very long. Fun for the short term but it has to be caught before it self destructs. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Space really does seem to be why it's all routed on the passenger side but that requires moving the battery elsewhere and rerouting battery cables. I'd rather try to find a way to touted in on the drivers side but we'll see. As for strokers and superchargers for the 4.0, they don't give the HP gains of a turbo and they cost way more. Stroker would be way more work but a supercharger would be much easier. As for the Chinese turbos, I'd be willing to try one. I've been hearing a lot of different places that they have gone up in quality recently. I would prefer and probably will try to source a much better turbo though. I plan to reuse hoses and piping that I have laying around so I should still be able to fit this in my budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 More $$ than you wanted to spend, but a nice setup with a quality Eaton M90 turbo and w/o cutting the hood. Requires the 96 and up power steering pump and brackets. https://www.boostedtech.com/superchargers/jeep-cherokee/cherokee-4-0-liter-6-cylinder-side-mount-supercharger/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Mesa XJ Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 I looked at one of the kits, actually looks more like a Toyota or Nissan straight 6 turbo adapted to the jeep. One reminded me of a ct26 or t4 setup. Maybe look for one of those cars in a junk yard to get the set up. On thing I do know is the Toyota 7M, 1jz and 2jz engine have the exhaust port on the passenger side and intake on the drivers where jeep has both on the same side, maybe why the kits place it there if they are reusing Japanese turbo designs. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 More $$ than you wanted to spend, but a nice setup with a quality turbo and w/o cutting the hood. https://www.boostedtech.com/superchargers/jeep-cherokee/cherokee-4-0-liter-6-cylinder-side-mount-supercharger/ That's a supercharger.... I did look at it but yeah more than I wanted to spend and not enough power for what it costs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted August 22, 2017 Author Share Posted August 22, 2017 I looked at one of the kits, actually looks more like a Toyota or Nissan straight 6 turbo adapted to the jeep. One reminded me of a ct26 or t4 setup. Maybe look for one of those cars in a junk yard to get the set up. On thing I do know is the Toyota 7M, 1jz and 2jz engine have the exhaust port on the passenger side and intake on the drivers where jeep has both on the same side, maybe why the kits place it there if they are reusing Japanese turbo designs. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro That is helpful thanks. To get a quality turbo I will probably have to get a used factory one of some kind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 More $$ than you wanted to spend, but a nice setup with a quality Eaton M90 turbo and w/o cutting the hood. Requires the 96 and up power steering pump and brackets. https://www.boostedtech.com/superchargers/jeep-cherokee/cherokee-4-0-liter-6-cylinder-side-mount-supercharger/ Never mind........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omega_rugal Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 how much HPs do you expect to get from $2500? in a stock comanche you options are rather limited -Supercharge the 4.0 -Stroke a 4.0, bore the throttle, swap a 91-95 head, put larger inyectors... none of the above is cheap... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 how much HPs do you expect to get from $2500? in a stock comanche you options are rather limited -Supercharge the 4.0 -Stroke a 4.0, bore the throttle, swap a 91-95 head, put larger inyectors... none of the above is cheap... I should be able to get anywhere from 6-8psi so upwards of 80 more HP without blowing the budget or any major stress on the stock motor. That does mean either I use an ebay turbo kit or I piece together a kit. I'm looking currently for a suitable factory turbo vehicle I could harvest most of the kit from. If I can get the turbo and some piping from a JY or Craigslist deal, it will be cheap enough to stay in budget. For now I'll keep an internal wastegate so that takes some cost off. The biggest expense will be an efi system to control fuel. I've found decent ones in the $500 area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Ain't gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 Ain't gonna happen. https://bangshift.com/bangshiftapex/the-humbler-five-buddies-built-this-cheap-turbo-jeep-to-go-12s-and-destroy-on-the-autocross/ I know I'm not as smart as these guys but I am smart enough to do my research and make something like this happen in a Comanche. I want to try to find a decent turbo for cheap rather than an ebay unit but if worst come to worse, I'll get an ebay unit and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Yeah, I aware. One thing these articles, builders, never reveal, although it should be obvious to you. You ain't sitting in a $2M shop with 6 other guys and unlimited resources........they are, yet claim a $2K build. Nor do they go on and on about all the trial and error and broken parts. Go here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BMS9mK0H6sUhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obYaYspo44Ahttps://www.facebook.com/SeitzRacingTeam/ Read through his FaceFreak..........blown a AW4....which is expected..........and a broke a cam...........I'd expect that too. Go here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PiDtrxblyg myguess is $10K to get there.......... Here HP cost money. You want HP, ditch the MPI, ditch the stock ignition...........intake and headers...............and you still won't be pulling past 4000rpm......maybe 5K Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Hope you make it reliable and under budget Dzimm. :cheers: I'm not even going to mention what the Hesco stroker cost back in 06. Sure has been reliable though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 Yeah, I aware. One thing these articles, builders, never reveal, although it should be obvious to you. You ain't sitting in a $2M shop with 6 other guys and unlimited resources........they are, yet claim a $2K build. Nor do they go on and on about all the trial and error and broken parts. Go here https://www.facebook.com/SeitzRacingTeam/ Read through his FaceFreak..........blown a AW4....which is expected..........and a broke a cam...........I'd expect that too. Go here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PiDtrxblyg myguess is $10K to get there.......... Here HP cost money. You want HP, ditch the MPI, ditch the stock ignition...........intake and headers...............and you still won't be pulling past 4000rpm......maybe 5K This is good info but it also makes it so I don't have to do the trial and error because someone else has done it already. I also don't plan on this going together overnight so doing it myself in my shed is no big deal. I also am not going for a 12 second vehicle so I won't be pushing it nearly as hard as they did. I just want some more power out of an MJ to have some fun with. Like I said above, I plan on only running 6-8psi, a factory 4.0 and aw4 should be able to handle it. If I blow it up, we'll my budget is blown and I get a new motor. I'm not going to depend on this vehicle for anything, it's purely for fun and to see what I can do in my shed, with my skill level and tools, and to learn about turbos. I appreciate the push back on it. It gives me more to think about and you may bring something up that I haven't come across or considered yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeep Driver Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I haven't seen anyone do much with centrifugals on the 4.0's yet........haven't really sought it out though. But that's the direction I'd be looking in. I got into it a bit with the stroker guys over on NAXJA for lying about their numbers..........and they have. Be aware of that. Many of them have something to sell. 4.0s are 3500rpm engine, look at anyone's graphs..........that's what they are There are a lot of people with a lot of money invested, they gotta find suckers. Reliability is the issue. I've yet to find anyone who claimed serious numbers to claim reliability.............lot's of money for little return. And the AW4.........that's another issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 :shake: ^^ Everybody's lying and wasting their money says Mr. 2.5. :yes: Tell that to the dyno. He is correct somewhat regarding the AW4. It doesn't break, but the total drivetrain loss from the test stand numbers to the rear wheels after installation was ~30%. The numbers would have been much better, at least 12% overall, with an AX15. But I like my auto. Dzimm, I hope you can do the similar with less money with the turbo and retain reliability. That was the key for me. Going strong for 9+ years now. Looking forward to your build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 I will be adding an Eaton M90 to my 4.7L Stroker engine when I get off my A$$ and get started as I have already done the same for an 05 Jeep 4.0L Rubicon and it was Awesome and the guy Loved it but it wasn't for racing it was for getting 6th gear back as he was 4:10 gears and 37" tires so before the SC the 6 speed was only a 4 speed... If my Truck was a Street ONLY Id try the turbo route but since its not Id rather go SC oh and the Eaton M90 FORD version is very versatile SC and factory boost is 8PSI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 True, but it's doubtful you would get 8psi from the M90 on your stroker. More like 3-4 psi I would think. I'm thinking about the Eaton also but need more real world dyno info on what it will do on a stroker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Well I don't see how it wouldn't be the 8psi even on a stroker as the as pressure is the pressure regardless of it being a stroker engine but if need be a smaller pulley will gain more boost which I already have a smaller pulley for mine but as for how much of an increase in boost I haven't done the math yet... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 :shake: ^^ Everybody's lying and wasting their money says Mr. 2.5. :yes: Tell that to the dyno. He is correct somewhat regarding the AW4. It doesn't break, but the total drivetrain loss from the test stand numbers to the rear wheels after installation was ~30%. The numbers would have been much better, at least 12% overall, with an AX15. But I like my auto. Dzimm, I hope you can do the similar with less money with the turbo and retain reliability. That was the key for me. Going strong for 9+ years now. Looking forward to your build. What is this boosted with? As for the power loss with the aw4, I'm okay with it. I do plan on wiring it so I can manually shift it if I want. I'm curious if manually shifting the aw4 will make any difference in the power loss or if it is just in the design of it to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 No boost - just more displacement and better suck and blow peripherals, like headers, intake, dual exhaust, etc. . Manually shift kits and valve body kits like the TransGo might help curb some drivetrain power loss, but I've no experience in them yet. Everything I've read about the AW4 says that they have quite high drivetrain power loss as compared to most other autos. It's documented at almost 30% in my case. I don't believe all these people who rave about the great power they have measured with a butt dyno after doing performance mods. It's mostly wishful thinking. You need before and after PROOF baby! :yes: Also I pay no attention to the armchair experts who badmouth strokers, supercharging, turbos, etc. It's all opinionated BS if you can't prove it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzimm Posted August 23, 2017 Author Share Posted August 23, 2017 No boost - just more displacement and better suck and blow peripherals, like headers, intake, dual exhaust, etc. . Manually shift kits and valve body kits like the TransGo might help curb some drivetrain power loss, but I've no experience in them yet. Everything I've read about the AW4 says that they have quite high drivetrain power loss as compared to most other autos. It's documented at almost 30% in my case. I don't believe all these people who rave about the great power they have measured with a butt dyno after doing performance mods. It's mostly wishful thinking. You need before and after PROOF baby! :yes: Also I pay no attention to to the armchair experts who badmouth strokers , supercharging, turbos, etc. It's all opinionated BS if you can't prove it. Wow thats some major horsepower from just accessories. What all did you put on it? Edit: I must have skimmed the first sentence when I first read it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOrnbrod Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 THIS old post is mostly still current, except for some injector and exhaust changes, cowl hood, and the Unichip is now history. Probably a bunch of other stuff I've forgotten about too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnj92131 Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Dzimm,. Just stay away from 505 Racing. Don't think of giving them your money. Their reputation on jeepstrokers is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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