Tube/pipe bending harbor freight

[Jackrabbit41]

I was given a harbor freight pipe bender. Like the orange bottle Jack kind. First of all, what's the difference between tube and pipe? Second, any techniques with these to not getting wrinkles? I've watch some videos on it but just want to know for y'all cause y'all are the best. Also I'm going to build a pre runner bumper for a friend and just wondering size/diameter of pipe/tube I should use. I know DOM is best but I've heard it's very pricey and this thing seems like pipe would be plenty strong. Thanks y'all!

[Jackrabbit41]

Making the bumper for a 91 ford ranger

[krustyballer16]

Tubing is measured outside diameter and wall thickness.

Pipe is measured some stupid way...

 

Never used this bender before. I have an EZ Bender. Works good. But only bends 90°

 

I personally would use 1.75"x1/8" wall tubing for a bumper (probably about all that bender will do if even that...)

^^ this size tubing is what I use on my sliders that I sell on here...

Not sure on price to individuals, I get it at cost...

 

https://www.roguefab.com/product/bendernotcher-elite-package-free-shipping/

 

This is what I'm looking at getting next I think.

[gogmorgo]

Pipe is only intended to support it's own weight, the weight of the contents, and a certain amount of internal pressure. It's generally pretty soft (makes for easy threading) and while it can support some load, it's not the best for something structural.

[Incommando]

Pipe is only intended to support it's own weight, the weight of the contents, and a certain amount of internal pressure. It's generally pretty soft (makes for easy threading) and while it can support some load, it's not the best for something structural.

This

[Zebvance]

Pipe is used for bumpers all the time, and sold buy big name mfg. IT comes down to this, if the bumper is going to be for looks only and are not building it to take some hits on the trailer for protection then pipe is fine. if you are building it expecting it to take some abuse use DOM because the pipe with get dented and tweaked in no time. Besides that, as far as tube benders are concerned, I do not have much experience but I can tell you that the bender is the cheap part of the set up. All the different dies you need to be versatile with one is where the real money gets sucked out the window. 

[Jackrabbit41]

Pipe is used for bumpers all the time, and sold buy big name mfg. IT comes down to this, if the bumper is going to be for looks only and are not building it to take some hits on the trailer for protection then pipe is fine. if you are building it expecting it to take some abuse use DOM because the pipe with get dented and tweaked in no time. Besides that, as far as tube benders are concerned, I do not have much experience but I can tell you that the bender is the cheap part of the set up. All the different dies you need to be versatile with one is where the real money gets sucked out the window.

Ya he mostly wants it for looks so I think pipe will be better. I've heard these benders that I have work a lot better with pipe too

[64 Cheyenne]

Tube is structural, measured outside. Pipe is measured internally, so that it's volume can be calculated in a controlled system.

Lots of videos out there show you how to make that bender work with pipe or tube.

[Megadan]

DOM, Drawn Over Mandrel, tubing is recommended for structural safety items (IE Roll cages) because the mandrel drawing process the seam weld is removed and the tubing is then cold drawn over a mandrel to improve measurement and structural tolerances (consistency in size/thickness).  The cold drawing process also lends some work hardening to the tube making it a bit stronger.  A lot of people make the mistake of saying it is seamless, which it actually does have a seam to it, you just don't see it.  SMT, Seamless Mechanical Tubing, is extruded and truly seamless.  It's also pretty expensive stuff, even by DOM standards.

For a bumper, standard tubing, aka ERW, or Electric Resistance Welded, will be plenty fine.  Just pick a good thickness based on the kind of loads/impacts it will see, the capability of that bender, and weight considerations.  

[Megadan]

Oh, and that bender is more designed around pipe than tubing.  There is a video on youtube of a guy that made a simple mod to them to help prevent kinking tubing.  He made a strap with a bolt through the top to secure the back side of the tube, and then drilled through the mandrel to secure the strap to it with a bolt.

 

I've also heard of people filling the tubing with sand to prevent kinks.

[Jackrabbit41]

Oh, and that bender is more designed around pipe than tubing. There is a video on youtube of a guy that made a simple mod to them to help prevent kinking tubing. He made a strap with a bolt through the top to secure the back side of the tube, and then drilled through the mandrel to secure the strap to it with a bolt.

 

I've also heard of people filling the tubing with sand to prevent kinks.

Thanks man!

[DirtyComanche]

Pipe is only intended to support it's own weight, the weight of the contents, and a certain amount of internal pressure. It's generally pretty soft (makes for easy threading) and while it can support some load, it's not the best for something structural.

 

Terrible generalization and pretty much just 'wrong.'

 

If we were talking ABS or PVC, yeah, sure.

 

Steel?  No.  ASTM-A53 standards are for structural rated pipe that is made from carbon steel, and they spec very similar in mechanical properties to A37 steel.  You probably see A37 steel in use all the time as angle iron, flat bar, channel, H beams (W-flange), and many other structural steel shapes.  ASTM-A53B is actually stronger than A37 by some 10-15%, IIRC.  Note, these standards are not as strong as DOM, which is about 100% stronger, depending on exact grade.

 

Steel pipe also comes in other standards for other applications.  I don't want to talk about that, because there is a lot of them, and while some are useful and many are not (you can buy T-304 stainless pipe, it's useful for some things, but pretty irrelevant to this conversation).  Pipe that is built to a standard will have that inked down the length of it, or tagged, or bundled.  Places like Homedepot will probably sell ASTM-A53 pipe, but they may not, go to a real steel yard and you will get the correct type (they typically will not carry any non standard steel pipe as their customers have no use for it).

 

The ASTM-A53 pipe is also very similar to many of the HREW/ERW tubing standards.

 

Pipe sizing is odd, as it is a carryover from 'old times'.  You basically need a pipe size table to know what the hell it is.  The ones I use most are 1.5" sch40 (pronounced 'schedule 40' and it refers to the thickness of the wall), which is something like 1.92" OD and .145" wall thickness, giving something around a 1.5" inside diameter (how they're actually sizing it), and 1.5" sch80 (thicker wall) and 1.25" sch40/80 and 1" sch40/80.  I keep short lengths of the smaller stuff around to use for making sleeves and bushings, it isn't much use for anything else.

 

A pipe bender and dies are for bending pipe, but most of the cheap ones need work to actually function correctly.  Generally they're way too wide, and will cause flattening (which is not desirable), so the inside of the dies are best welded up and ground smooth to tighten them a bit.  Also the rollers are normally a terrible design and will cause denting, guys replace them with angle iron and other bits, but that's up to you.

 

As to roll cage construction, since somebody brought it up, it's fairly common in the offroad world for HREW/ERW tubing to be used for cage construction.  Typically 1.5"x.120 or 1.75"x.120 for a midsized vehicle.  1.25" sch40 pipe is stronger than 1.5"x.120 ERW due to the large dimensions (both OD and wall thickness), and 1.5" sch40 is stronger than 1.75"x.120 ERW for the same reason.  That said, SHOULD you be building the majority of a cage from any of these materials?  Probably not, but it happens.  I see little harm in building certain less critical pieces from them though.  The main hoops and "driver safety critical areas" should always be DOM or like material, IMHO.

 

Anyways, in summary, pipe can be used in many places structurally as long as you realize it is what it is.

 

Hopefully somebody actually reads that, rather than having their eyes glaze over and skipping it.  It took me a while to type.

[DirtyComanche]

And before anyone else says anything, design matters more than materials by a factor of 100:1.  People went to the moon in something made out of aluminum foil.

[Jackrabbit41]

 

 

Pipe is only intended to support it's own weight, the weight of the contents, and a certain amount of internal pressure. It's generally pretty soft (makes for easy threading) and while it can support some load, it's not the best for something structural.

Terrible generalization and pretty much just 'wrong.'

 

If we were talking ABS or PVC, yeah, sure.

 

Steel? No. ASTM-A53 standards are for structural rated pipe that is made from carbon steel, and they spec very similar in mechanical properties to A37 steel. You probably see A37 steel in use all the time as angle iron, flat bar, channel, H beams (W-flange), and many other structural steel shapes. ASTM-A53B is actually stronger than A37 by some 10-15%, IIRC. Note, these standards are not as strong as DOM, which is about 100% stronger, depending on exact grade.

 

Steel pipe also comes in other standards for other applications. I don't want to talk about that, because there is a lot of them, and while some are useful and many are not (you can buy T-304 stainless pipe, it's useful for some things, but pretty irrelevant to this conversation). Pipe that is built to a standard will have that inked down the length of it, or tagged, or bundled. Places like Homedepot will probably sell ASTM-A53 pipe, but they may not, go to a real steel yard and you will get the correct type (they typically will not carry any non standard steel pipe as their customers have no use for it).

 

The ASTM-A53 pipe is also very similar to many of the HREW/ERW tubing standards.

 

Pipe sizing is odd, as it is a carryover from 'old times'. You basically need a pipe size table to know what the hell it is. The ones I use most are 1.5" sch40 (pronounced 'schedule 40' and it refers to the thickness of the wall), which is something like 1.92" OD and .145" wall thickness, giving something around a 1.5" inside diameter (how they're actually sizing it), and 1.5" sch80 (thicker wall) and 1.25" sch40/80 and 1" sch40/80. I keep short lengths of the smaller stuff around to use for making sleeves and bushings, it isn't much use for anything else.

 

A pipe bender and dies are for bending pipe, but most of the cheap ones need work to actually function correctly. Generally they're way too wide, and will cause flattening (which is not desirable), so the inside of the dies are best welded up and ground smooth to tighten them a bit. Also the rollers are normally a terrible design and will cause denting, guys replace them with angle iron and other bits, but that's up to you.

 

As to roll cage construction, since somebody brought it up, it's fairly common in the offroad world for HREW/ERW tubing to be used for cage construction. Typically 1.5"x.120 or 1.75"x.120 for a midsized vehicle. 1.25" sch40 pipe is stronger than 1.5"x.120 ERW due to the large dimensions (both OD and wall thickness), and 1.5" sch40 is stronger than 1.75"x.120 ERW for the same reason. That said, SHOULD you be building the majority of a cage from any of these materials? Probably not, but it happens. I see little harm in building certain less critical pieces from them though. The main hoops and "driver safety critical areas" should always be DOM or like material, IMHO.

 

Anyways, in summary, pipe can be used in many places structurally as long as you realize it is what it is.

 

Hopefully somebody actually reads that, rather than having their eyes glaze over and skipping it. It took me a while to type.

Thanks this is really good to know

[Megadan]

I read it all DirtyComanche.  I agree with everything you said  :thumbsup: 

Honestly, for a front bumper, SCH40 pipe would be perfect for a tough/light build,  Around 1 1/2 and 2" SCH40 pipe has a .140-.155 ish wall thickness (off of memory) which is a bit thicker than 1/8th inch.  If you wanted something closer to 1/4" SCH80 in those diameters is right around .200" thick. Would be heavier, but stronger - so probably better for hard core use where it might run into things.  Both SCH40 and SCH80 are readily avail at the hardware store and fairly cheap.   You could also mix it up if you wanted and use SCh10 or 20 for brush guard/grille guard duty with the main body/bars as SCH40.  etc etc. yadda yadda

[Incommando]

You can buy schedule 40 pipe in plastic. Probably not a good cage material. :)

[gogmorgo]

You can use whatever you want as a material if you do the engineering and put your own stamp on it... Any material that will support even the slightest load more than its own weight can be used for any structural element if you throw enough of it at the problem. Join them properly and you could make an effective roll cage out of logs if you wanted. Doesn't make it a great idea, but it'll work.

Sure, going down to your local hardware store and picking up some water pipe can work, but it's not going to be the best choice for anything that you're relying on for structure. I've also made bushings and other stuff from sch40 water pipe... Toss it in a lathe and you just chew right through it cause it's so soft. For a bumper or a slider it may be less critical than for a roll cage, but you'll end up with a much heavier product that won't do the same job as well.

[DirtyComanche]

You can buy schedule 40 pipe in plastic. Probably not a good cage material. :)

 

Yes.  Among other things.  The sch system is sizing only, and I believe even the plastic (PVC/ABS/etc) pipe is actually the same dimensions as the steel pipe.

[Jackrabbit41]

So I tried bending some 1 1/2 schedule 40 and it worked perfect! Got a 45 no problem without any denting or kinks so I'm happy!

[Megadan]

So I tried bending some 1 1/2 schedule 40 and it worked perfect! Got a 45 no problem without any denting or kinks so I'm happy!

Pics or it didn't happen!   :D

[Jackrabbit41]

 

 

So I tried bending some 1 1/2 schedule 40 and it worked perfect! Got a 45 no problem without any denting or kinks so I'm happy!

Pics or it didn't happen! :D

I'll get some good ones this weekend when the bumpers done

[Megadan]

I look forward to seeing your creation!

[Jackrabbit41]

Here ya go. I didn't really have to do any bends more then 25 degrees but this is the first bumper I've ever built and it turned out amazing! I love it. It's hard to see in pictures cause everything's black but it's awesome. It's on a 91 Ranger. The frame was bent so I beat it back to straight then used 1/4inch steel to box in about 6 inches of the frame for strength. The bumper is mounted from 4 positions off of the truck so its on there good. I used schedule 40 because it's mostly for looks.

 

That's a 40 degree bend with no kinking or dents.

 

When it gets nicer out I'll text my friend and try to get better pics. It was censored in my garage so I couldn't get the whole truck in the photo

 

 

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[Jackrabbit41]

Next weekend were putting on a aluminum skid plate in that front slot

 

 

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[DirtyComanche]

Looks good.

 

 

However, if you want it to be quite a bit stronger, I recommend you add pieces to it like this:

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I'd say the red ones for sure, the blue ones are a bit more optional.  Unless it really is just for looks.  Otherwise the pieces that are sticking out will get bent rather easily.

 

As I said, it's more about design than materials.