question about axles and gauges

[vandior2001]

I need to upgrade me gears to 4.11 or 4.56. Is it better the just get replacement gears for the stock 30 and 35 or upgrade to bigger axles?

Does anyone know if there are axles 44's or 60's that will bolt on or need little modding, i can get in a junkyard? I don't have a welder but would like bigger axles without buying new ones.

 

Is there a way to get rid of the idiot lights on the instrument cluster? I would like real gauges not just lights. what gauges should i use and can a tac be installed??

 

 

 

 

thx for any help

 

 

[AeroNautical]

     What size tires are you looking to run? The dana 30 will be good for up to 33s or 35s, the dana 35 up to 31s. Not many people invest in a dana 35 because of it's strength. A popular upgrade is a 29 spline Chrysler 8.25 (dana 44 strength) or a Ford 8.8. Both require welding perches. Unless you find an MJ Dana 44, you won't have any other axles that will just bolt in. 

 

     The instrument cluster can be swapped from any pre-97 cherokee or comanche. However, they did a speedo swap in 1991 from a cable to electronic. What year is your truck? If it's pre-91, you'll need a pre-91 instrument cluster. (they are light blue in color). Post 91 clusters were white. 

[13 Legion]

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=921205

Step by step instruction for gauge swap

[vandior2001]

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=921205

Step by step instruction for gauge swap

Thanks for the tip, now to go pillage my local junkyards !!

 

about the axles, i run 285/65R18 BF goodrich TKO2's (there about 32 inches tall)

Is the dana 30 front axle safe to go light offroading with that size tire?

I can find dana 44's rear axles easy, i was thinking i needed to replace them both.

Can the dana 30 front axle be upgraded to make it a good offroad axle for 35's?

[DirtyComanche]

I'm surprised you can find a rear D44 easily, but since you can I would say it's the best way to go.

 

35s are the marginal limit of a D30. At that point there is a lot of factors to consider. Wheeling style, power, weight, actual behavior of any added traction device, extra reduction, etc. With the gear style in the earlier D30s you will be able to break the ring and pinion at that point, and good aftermarket chromoly axleshafts, u-joints and a full case locker/spool will pretty much guarantee that outcome.

 

If you're just going to tool around on trails, stock engine trans/tcase, I would not worry about it too much. If you want to do more than that I would go another route. Even the JK axle route, they changed how they cut the gears in them and they will actually hold up to 35s at a 5000lb operating weight.

 

So, define what you intend to do and I will give you a more specific recommendation. Since you're regearing past the carrier split I can only assume you intend to buy a traction device.

[mikekaz1]

you say you can find d44s easy....  now either you found  treasure trove of MJ44s that nobody knows about. or they are the wrong D44s. MJ D44s are specific to MJs. mass production D44s will NOT direct bolt in. not even XJ D44s unless you weld new spring perches.

[Megadan]

Take everything that DirtyComanche said, and boil it down into 2 simple questions.  How much money are you willing to spend? What are your realistically going to do with the truck?

I dream of taking my truck on grand adventures to MOAB and doing things like the Ultimate off-road challenge.  The reality is, My truck sees mostly on-road use, and so it is being built to stay as a good on-road vehicle, but with improved off-road capabilities.  smaller lift (Low COG build), 33" tires at most.  I'm going to build up the 30 a bit and do an 8.8 swap.  I may go to an off-road park or camping adventure once or twice a year at most.  Axles are actually next on my list, and I have put a lot of thought into it.  I had to weigh reality vs. my dreams and came out with what suits that best.

[vandior2001]

I am just going off road in the woods nothing to rough but i do need to pull a trailer every now and again, about 4-6k weight range. It's my daily driver and only truck so on road is something i have to keep in mind.

i need to go to lower gears 4.11 ish because of the tire size i am using. i will get a locker one day but that's a ways off, my budget is tight atm.

The dana 44's i can get around here are from dodge trucks mostly there are a few junkyards around here. one has something like 30 dodges. The rear axle under my truck has nothing on it but a little pin to center the springs. everything just bolts on with the U-bolts.

i can get bigger bolts and make or adapt the current plates to fit a D44.

will there be any issues other then that when installing a D44 from a dodge truck?

[Megadan]

Axle width, bolt pattern are two big ones.  The reason the Ford 8.8 swap is so popular is because it's the same bolt pattern as the stock axle, and close enough to the same width to work easily.

[DirtyComanche]

Yeah, the width is massively different and it's a bit of a problem. Stock axles are 60"~ from wheel mounting surface (WMS) to the other WMS. (They aren't exactly 60" but we'll leave that alone for now) Truck axles are regarded as being full width and are typically 67" to 72" WMS to WMS. Thus you will need to match both the front and rear axles, and you will have tires sticking out from the fenders, which can cause legal problems.

 

And as said, the bolt pattern is a problem. The factory 5x4.5 pattern is unfortunate as it is too small to work on many axles, which leaves limited options. Walking away from the 5x4.5 pattern is IMHO the best course of action if one plans to upgrade axles...

[DirtyComanche]

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Here is the amount of tire stick out I have on an XJ with 67"~ wide axles and 17"x9 rims with about 6" of backspacing. Sourcing rims with more backspacing proved to not be very easy, and there's more to the story if one wants it told.

 

If you have to have your tires covered it is a big problem. Granted those tires are also quite wide (13.5"), but even a 10" wide tire wouldn't fix it.

[HOrnbrod]

Axle width, bolt pattern are two big ones.  The reason the Ford 8.8 swap is so popular is because it's the same bolt pattern as the stock axle, and close enough to the same width to work easily.

 

The bigger reason for the 8.8 axle's popularity is that they are plentiful and cheap. To me it was worth searching for and finally finding an MJ D44. 

[DirtyComanche]

 

 

Axle width, bolt pattern are two big ones. The reason the Ford 8.8 swap is so popular is because it's the same bolt pattern as the stock axle, and close enough to the same width to work easily.

The bigger reason for the 8.8 axle's popularity is that they are plentiful and cheap. To me it was worth searching for and finally finding an MJ D44.

Do not confuse cheapness with economic sense. If you want 4.10 gears and disk brakes, the 8.8 makes an awful lot of sense, and that's not just because somebody is being cheap.

[HOrnbrod]

All true Dirt-man. Not bashing the 8.8, it's a fine axle. I just opted to hold out for the MJ D44 because I wanted one. But I did use Ford Explorer disk brakes on it.    :yes:    Nothing wrong with economic sense, but it's often used to justify cheapness, as you well know.

[gogmorgo]

2003+ 4-cyl Libby 8.25. 4.10's, correct width (8.8 is ~1" narrower) and disk brakes. More stuff to cut off, but in my mind better than running spacers.

[vandior2001]

great info thanks.

what part of the dana 35 is the weak link so to speak?

autozone can get me chromoly shafts and center guts, even a locker. Would trussing the tubes work?

i have send some massive trussing systems for other axles and if i can find a welder i am sure i can build something like what i have seen to add strength to the tubes.

 

something like this?

http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/10467.html

 

i would like to stick with original parts ( main ones anyway) if i can.

 

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=921205
Step by step instruction for gauge swap

thanks for the link legion found a 87 cherokee in the local junkyard to pillage for parts.

[DirtyComanche]

great info thanks.

what part of the dana 35 is the weak link so to speak?

autozone can get me chromoly shafts and center guts, even a locker. Would trussing the tubes work?

i have send some massive trussing systems for other axles and if i can find a welder i am sure i can build something like what i have seen to add strength to the tubes.

 

something like this?

http://www.ironrockoffroad.com/10467.html

 

i would like to stick with original parts ( main ones anyway) if i can.

The whole thing is a weak link. The housing sucks, but while you can truss it the tubes are still thin enough to dent. The stock axle shafts suck, upgrading them moves the failure point to either the carrier or the ring and pinion. A full case locker guarantees the failure point is the ring and pinion. You could get a nice set of Spicer gears and send them out for cryogenic treatment to try to avoid this, it will still break eventually. Basically you wind up with a really expensive axle that will still break.

 

Do it if you want, I wouldn't.

[HOrnbrod]

^^  This. I didn't listen either, and decided to regear the stock D35 from 3.55 to 4.10 myself when I lifted my rig and put 31" tires on it. The regear went okay except I could never get the new pinion crush sleeve to crush properly so I ended up reusing  the old one. In the first 3K miles I snapped two axles, which I figured was caused by the stroker's additional torque when burning out at a stop light.  :dunce:  I replaced the stock axles with chromolys and didn't break anymore. But at around 5K miles the the gears started whining under the slightest throttle; a sure sign the the backlash setting was AFU and the gears were eating themselves. Most likely due to the reusing the original crush sleeve. More  :dunce:. I'd learned my lesson the hard way.

 

I finally found a used MJ D44 axle up in TN, had it regeared professionally to 4.10 with 10 Factory chromoly axles and limited slip, and voilà - no more busted axles and/or gear noise.  Got about 30K miles on it now and counting.

 

So no, don't spend any $$ on the D35.

[vandior2001]

well looks like i need to find a d44

 

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=921205
Step by step instruction for gauge swap

i did the swap just like it said but i only gauge that works right beside the speedo is the oil pressure. fuel reads backwards (that's just a sending unit) volt read low (check with a voltmeter ) and the tac don't work at all.

any idea why?  

[HOrnbrod]

i did the swap just like it said but i only gauge that works right beside the speedo is the oil pressure. fuel reads backwards (that's just a sending unit) volt read low (check with a voltmeter ) and the tac don't work at all.

any idea why?

As far as I can see you've never mentioned what year and model your MJ is, and what you used for the new gauge cluster.

[vandior2001]

My MJ is a 87

got the cluster and sensor are from a 1987 Cherokee

[Eagle]

autozone can get me chromoly shafts and center guts, even a locker. Would trussing the tubes work?

i have send some massive trussing systems for other axles and if i can find a welder i am sure i can build something like what i have seen to add strength to the tubes.

In your opening post you said you didn't have a welder. Then you wrote:

 

i will get a locker one day but that's a ways off, my budget is tight atm.

Make up your mind. Modifying a truck for off-road gets expensive VERY fast. You're currently on 32" tires. Then you started asking about 35" tires. You don't need 35" tires for the type of off-roading you described. In fact, you don't even need 32" tires for that -- you could do it on stock-size tires with no lift. When Paragon was operating in Pennsylvania I ran just about every trail they had in a shortbed MJ on 31" tires with a basic Trailmaster 4" lift, and I could have run most of them just as easily with no lift. (I know, because I also ran most of them in a Cherokee on 30" tires with no lift.)

 

The direct answer to your original question is that ONLY a Dana 44 from an MJ will bolt into an MJ. An XJ Dana 44 is the same width, but the spring perches are in the wrong location and have to be cut off and relocated, or you buy new perches and weld those on.

 

Next choice (IMHO) is the Chrysler 8.25 axle from an XJ or maybe a Liberty. You want one from an '97 or newer, to get the larger, 29-spline shafts. The axle width is correct but, like the XJ D44, you have to relocate the spring perches.

 

After that (IMHO) comes the Ford 8.8 axle. It's a tough axle, they're cheap, many have a limited slip already in them, and the newer ones have disk brakes. They are also too narrow. You WILL need to budget for buying spacers, or aftermarket wheels with a lot less backspacing than factory. The problem with using the wheels to fix the axle width is that if you run the same wheels in front -- they stick out too far.

 

I think you need to sit back, take a deep breath, and reexamine your budget and your priorities. Then come back and tell us what you can realistically afford, and we'll try to help.

[vandior2001]

 

autozone can get me chromoly shafts and center guts, even a locker. Would trussing the tubes work?

i have send some massive trussing systems for other axles and if i can find a welder i am sure i can build something like what i have seen to add strength to the tubes.

In your opening post you said you didn't have a welder. Then you wrote:

 

i will get a locker one day but that's a ways off, my budget is tight atm.

Make up your mind. Modifying a truck for off-road gets expensive VERY fast. You're currently on 32" tires. Then you started asking about 35" tires. You don't need 35" tires for the type of off-roading you described. In fact, you don't even need 32" tires for that -- you could do it on stock-size tires with no lift. When Paragon was operating in Pennsylvania I ran just about every trail they had in a shortbed MJ on 31" tires with a basic Trailmaster 4" lift, and I could have run most of them just as easily with no lift. (I know, because I also ran most of them in a Cherokee on 30" tires with no lift.)

 

The direct answer to your original question is that ONLY a Dana 44 from an MJ will bolt into an MJ. An XJ Dana 44 is the same width, but the spring perches are in the wrong location and have to be cut off and relocated, or you buy new perches and weld those on.

 

Next choice (IMHO) is the Chrysler 8.25 axle from an XJ or maybe a Liberty. You want one from an '97 or newer, to get the larger, 29-spline shafts. The axle width is correct but, like the XJ D44, you have to relocate the spring perches.

 

After that (IMHO) comes the Ford 8.8 axle. It's a tough axle, they're cheap, many have a limited slip already in them, and the newer ones have disk brakes. They are also too narrow. You WILL need to budget for buying spacers, or aftermarket wheels with a lot less backspacing than factory. The problem with using the wheels to fix the axle width is that if you run the same wheels in front -- they stick out too far.

 

I think you need to sit back, take a deep breath, and reexamine your budget and your priorities. Then come back and tell us what you can realistically afford, and we'll try to help.

 

you have a point. right now what i need is 4.11 gears. i am using 285/65R18 tire because i had 2 sets before i bought the truck and the tires and stock rims where bad (bald and bent).

ATM i am trying to improve the truck driving. my main question is what is better change the gears in what i have or get different axles. new 4.11's are about $150-$200 each axle from what i have seen in my area. i would still have to get them installed, i don't have the tools and knowledge to install them right.

[mikekaz1]

a regear will go between $600-1200 an axle on average

[vandior2001]

ouch

 

i was at the junkyards in Louisville today and rear axles go for $120-$225 looks like i am hunting XJ's and Liberty's Monday. seems the cheaper way to go.