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What does a bad steering box feel like?


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Hi guys.

 

In looking for advice about steering problems.

 

There's something amiss in my steering system and I'm not having much luck working out what the issue is. I've had numerous things replaced but nothing has cured it. Two garages have looked at it and found nothing. All the joints have been checked and confirmed to be OK. I've tightened the over centre in the steering box and that's ok now. It did need tightening a little and after doing that the steering issue was even more noticeable.

 

It's unstable, won't hold a smooth curve in a turn and on the straight it feels like it's always pulling one way or the other.

 

The truck (Diablo) has stock suspension, 1.5" wheel spacers, airbags (deflated) and Goodrich tires. The alignment has been checked aok also.

 

Any ideas guys?

 

Thanks in advance.

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The "driveshaft" leading from the steering wheel to the gear box, is there any play in the u-joints? My sisters TJ had a similar issue, it would wander and not track true, even with good steering components. Found out that shafts' u-joints had considerable play, and we replaced it with a jy shaft with good joints and it stopped wandering. 

 

Do you have power steering?

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I bought a 98 XJ that had similar problems.

Guy went through the whole system and everything was in good shape.

New steering box bushings everything.

I watched him struggle with it online for 6 months.

He finally gave up and sold it pretty cheap.

I bought it and drove it home and parked it nose to nose with my 96 XJ and looked everything over.

When he lifted it he unbolted the track bar at the axle and when he reinstalled it he bolted it back to the front of the box it bolts into which allowed it to wander because now the track bar wasn't in double shear.

Check your track bar thoroughly.

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I've seen reman boxes cause more problems than they've solved.  FWIW the Saginaw box is an excellent design and is hard (but not impossible) to kill.  I recently upgraded the steering box in my '69 Cutlass and put in a jy fresh ZJ steering box (OE for an A body is 17.5:1, ZJ is 12.7:1).  I figured my odds were with better going used, provided I chose the correct donor.

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The 93-98 ZJ quick ratio steering box is a very popular upgrade for the older slow ratio Saginaw 70s-80s GM cars. As such, their cost is steadily increasing. And I agree 100% with reman-ed Saginaw boxes; I would not touch one. To the OP, after you have eliminated the possible causes suggested posted above, consider replacing your existing steering gear box with a good used low mileage ZJ box from the yard. Even if it's not the root cause of your steering problems, it will definitely help to make it feel better.

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Thanks for the advice guys. So my local pnp has some 93 & 95 Grand Cherokees. Think I'll go pick up a box this weekend. I've not changed a steering box before, any special tools I might need to take for removal?

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There are plenty of good write-ups on-line regarding swapping in Saginaw boxes; not difficult. Pay particular attention to Pitman arm alignment. You will have to reuse your MJ Pitman arm because the ZJ box arm has about 1" more drop. So you will need a good Pitman arm puller -  rent-able from Autozone or similar. Also check out the steering box aluminum adapter shim between the frame and steering box for cracks / corrosion and replace if necessary. I replaced mine, didn't look so good, and used an aftermarket steel shim like the one below from IRO. Why the factory made these from from cast aluminum I've never been able to figure out.

 

sgs3_600x379.jpg

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So I installed a fresh steering box (what a job!) and I've had the alignment done. It's a vast improvement from before but it still drifts to the RIGHT on straight level roads. The alignment results show the camber angles slightly above spec and the caster angles 6.8LH/7.1RH (optimum 7.5).

 

From what I've learned the camber is ok to be slightly off but the caster will cause instability problems which is what i've been experiencing.

 

If I add/remove caster shims to adjust the caster angle must I do the same both sides?

 

The alignment tech I spoke to said you cannot independently alter the caster because it's a solid axle. Is he correct? Or is there enough flex in the axle that adjusting one slightly more than the other will help bring them equal.

 

The best conclusion the tech could offer after much head scratching was the tyres are 7yrs old now so it's probably something to do with the tyres. I'm not so sure about that, I've rotated the tyres all ways and the same effect is present.

 

TIA for any helpful pointers :)

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Adding shims behind the LCA increases positive caster, so you wouldn't want to add shims on the right side.

But since the L & R caster measurements are so close, .3* difference, I don't think it would do much good anyhow.

But I would verify the shop's measurement with an angle finder, and it will also aid you in future alignments. Verify the caster angle by sticking it on top of the L & R upper ball joint flats in line with the wheel and check the positive angle. You must be sitting on level ground.

423450d1340892945-finding-caster-does-wo

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Some interesting observations from GoJeep's website regarding road crown:

 

Just a little note for Australian owners or any RHD ones, if you have trouble of it always pulling left following the camber of the road, check your wheel base left to right and you will find that the left side is 10 mm shorter than the right! This is so it will run straight on USA or on the right side of the road which of course is the opposite of what we want. I had to add an extra 10 mm shim to the left side LCA and also remove the UCA, weld up the diff end holes of it and re-drill them 10 mm forward so that my wheel base is the same left to right. It still follows a steeply cambered road a small amount but on freeways it is perfect. To follow the Jeep logic for this you would need to extend a further 10 mm to have the same as their stock setup! My tyres now wear nice and evenly too.

 

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Some interesting observations from GoJeep's website regarding road crown:

 

 

Just a little note for Australian owners or any RHD ones, if you have trouble of it always pulling left following the camber of the road, check your wheel base left to right and you will find that the left side is 10 mm shorter than the right! This is so it will run straight on USA or on the right side of the road which of course is the opposite of what we want. I had to add an extra 10 mm shim to the left side LCA and also remove the UCA, weld up the diff end holes of it and re-drill them 10 mm forward so that my wheel base is the same left to right. It still follows a steeply cambered road a small amount but on freeways it is perfect. To follow the Jeep logic for this you would need to extend a further 10 mm to have the same as their stock setup! My tyres now wear nice and evenly too.

 

That's interesting stuff, i'd never have guessed they'd do that.

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They're probably just intended for postal service and recycled for export, meaning they would be wrong-hand drive for right-hand traffic here, not wrong-hand drive for left-hand traffic.

Also, I believe most vehicles are aligned to drift slightly to the right, which would hopefully send you off the road into a ditch instead of into oncoming traffic, in event the driver somehow falls asleep without touching the steering wheel.

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The 93-98 ZJ quick ratio steering box is a very popular upgrade for the older slow ratio Saginaw 70s-80s GM cars. As such, their cost is steadily increasing. And I agree 100% with reman-ed Saginaw boxes; I would not touch one. To the OP, after you have eliminated the possible causes suggested posted above, consider replacing your existing steering gear box with a good used low mileage ZJ box from the yard. Even if it's not the root cause of your steering problems, it will definitely help to make it feel better.

Following Don's advice, I snagged a box from a '98 ZJ when I needed to replace the steering box in the '01 XJ I picked up for my daughter. To my surprise, it needed quite a bit of adjustment on the over-center screw, and I still think it probably could use a bit of tweaking on the worm bearing preload, as well -- but I don't have a spanner wrench to fit that. It's pretty well dialed in now, and it is a modest improvement over the stock 14:1 XJ box. But I've decided if I ever need to replace the box in one of the good XJs or MJs, I'm going to call up AGR Steering and order one of their 10:1 boxes. Not a good choice for a truck with big tires that does rock crawling, but since I'm pretty much driving just on the street these days, I think I would be very happy with the 10:1 box. I'd prefer to buy it locally (Borgerson is just a few towns north of me), but Borgerson only offers the 14:1 and 12.7:1 ratios -- no 10:1 competition steering.

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As you know well Eagle, we all use junkyard parts to save a few $$ when we can. It's hit or miss on used parts. You snagged a worn out ZJ box w/o knowing it's history, and it needed adjustments. Probably a rebuild too. I got one from a wrecked 94 ZJ, also knew nothing about it's history, but the odo showed 64K miles, so I grabbed it. It was tight and a lot more than a modest upgrade, and ideal for a street MJ. It did weep a bit from the output shaft, but a bottle of Lucas stop leak "fixed" that. :yes:  So I lucked out - you didn't.

 

A 10:1 box on a 20+ year old MJ or XJ is way too quick IMO on the street, unless there is absolutely zero slop in the steering, and I doubt there is an MJ or XJ anywhere that meets that criteria. Borgerson knows that, and probably doesn't re-man that ratio Saginaw box because of liability issues from moron inexperienced drivers running old iron.

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