power steering help, please (2.5)

[mjtjnj]

Hate PS fluid...what a mess

Anyway, I took at 125 mile round trip ride in my 87 MJ (2.5/Ax-5) last Saturday, and as soon as I got home, the steering got noisy as I pulled into the driveway, and there was PS fluid coming out of the reservoir cap, and dripping down all over the place.

 

EDITED

 

Thanks in advance for any good advice.

Tom

[Eagle]

Not sure, but I think you need to burp it more.

[HOrnbrod]

Sounds like the pressure relief valve might be clogged or stuck because it's puking fluid out the cap. You can pull it out and check it w/o removing the pump, but you need to remove the high pressure hose to get to it. Was this the hose that burst?

 

This link will show it's location:  http://westtexasoffroad.homestead.com/powersteering.html

[mjtjnj]

Thanks for the responses.  No, it was the hose from the steering gear to the reservoir that leaked.  And it's churning up the fluid pretty good too.  Over the last day or two, I have been running it, turning the wheel once or twice, shutting it down, and re-checking.

Don, are you suggesting I remove and inspect the flow piston/spring?


thanks

Tom

[HOrnbrod]

Yes Tom, especially the piston and it's internals. Make sure nothing is frozen stuck and none of the springs are broken. I had a pump puking fluid in an old Chevy (same pump as the Jeep) and a sticking piston was the cause of the excess pressure. Worth a shot if you can't bleed it.

 

[mjtjnj]

I am going to be patient and try to burp it a little more, but thanks for that information on the valve.  The funny thing is, it didn't actually "blow" a line, it was leaking where the line is clamped onto the reservoir.  Just to be sure, I replaced the reservoir and the hose/clamps, but the old stuff *looked* OK. 

[mjtjnj]

An update:  Welp, I brought it to a shop.  Wife had a baby, and I just didn't have any more time to spend on it.  They checked the system, and it turns out it was the steering gear.  I replaced it with a used ZJ unit about 5 years ago, but it's not flowing, causing a pressure buildup in the reservoir, and the leakage.  I've never had that happen, and I have some old vehicles.  Guessing can cost you:  I bought a new PS reservoir and pump before letting the pros check it out.  My next step was the hoses, so I guess I saved a couple of bucks there.  Anyone got good used ZJ unit lying around?  Maybe I'll go reman this time.  I liked the ZJ box because it went lock to lock in 2.5 turns, it was nice.  Anyone using anything different?

[HOrnbrod]

Thanks for getting back. I too did the quicker steering 93-98 ZJ steering gear mod over five years ago and I love it. At the time I had the 99 intake manifold installed and because I wanted to use the more efficient 96 and up power steering steering bracketry I also replaced the power steering pump with an almost new unit from an 04 Wrangler at the same time. I've had no problems since then.

 

I'm just curious if the newer 04 pump is better matched in pressure to the ZJ steering gear. Something to ponder - I have no idea.......

[mjtjnj]

OK another update. 

 

I really need some help on this.  The shop had my MJ for two weeks, and didn't even call me after swapping out the box and realizing that it WASN'T the problem  Glad I asked them to keep my old box. 

 

So I replaced every last hose and O-ring with brand new Gates stuff.  Bled it for a long time with the engine off, ran the engine, topped it off, and did some lock-to-locks with the engine running.  It is STILL weeping fluid out the reservoir vent.  And the new pump is making noise, probably because the shop was running it in this condition, trying to figure this out.  I spoke with another tech, and he said "it has to be getting air in somewhere," and specified on the low pressure side, which led me to change out the hoses and O-rings.  There are no visible leaks in the system.  The only thing I haven't changed is the reservoir lid (replaced it with the reservoir 5-6 years ago). 

 

I pulled the lid off the reservoir while is was running, and fluid flowed out all over, it was really churning in there.  It's not super-foamy, but that's because there is ATF +4 in there. 

Before I drag this to another shop, does anyone have any ideas?

 

Thanks--

Tom

[shelbyluvv]

Take the ATF out and replace it with power steering fluid. There is a difference.

[mjtjnj]

FWIW I had PS fluid in there when the problems began.  I don't mind changing back, I don't think it's going to fix my problem.

[mjtjnj]

I'm going to revive this post, as I am desperate.  The MJ has been in the mechanic's yard since September, and he plays with it when he feels like it. 

 

To get everyone up to speed, I started leaking PS fluid, pretty vigorously, in August.  Out of nowhere.  I had changed my steering gear to a used ZJ one years ago, and had done the pump, reservoir, cap, and hoses, all at one time or another, since I've had the MJ for 15 years.  My wife had a baby in Sept, and I just didn't have time to fix it.

 

The mechanic, whom I trust, at first thought air was coming in.  So I ordered a new pump (AC delco reman), new hoses/O-rings, and a new Chrysler gear from a ZJ.  I installed the pump and hoses, the tech put in the box, because I was out of time.  He has since gone back and checked the pump, replaced all the O-rings just in case.  He did some playing around and crimped one of the hoses a bit, which lessened the problem. 

 

He is now convinced that there is too high a flow rate coming back from the steering gear, or that it's "turning the wrong way."  I don't think so, but neither he nor I know what's going on here.  It's beyond ridiculous.  He is suggesting I get a stock steering gear.  I don't want to argue with him, but I don't think it's the answer.  The part # is 52088488 AE. 

 

Before this all started, I had a ZJ box, and it didn't leak for years.  Does anyone have any ideas, or know anything about inline restrictors, flow rate, and reverse flow? 

 

This guy is a good tech, and has put a bunch of hours in.  He's being kind to me by keeping it there and toying with it once in awhile, because I'm sure the bill would be enormous.  I get the feeling that if I told him I wanted it back tomorrow, he'd let me take it, and not charge me, since it's not fixed.

 

Baffled on the next step.  Help!  Any PS system gurus?

 

Tom

87 MJ 2.5 remote reservoir

[mjtjnj]

Anyone?  I'm desperate, thinking of swapping in a manual steering gear, at this point.

[HOrnbrod]

Why don't you go back to a good low-mileage junkyard ZJ pump like you had before until it started leaking? I've had one on for many years with zero problems. I don't trust any of the "re-manufactured" junk......

[mjtjnj]

Hi Don,

 

I always had the correct MJ pump on there, just a ZJ steering gear.  You have a ZJ pump and gear?  Do they need to be matched for flow??  Maybe the valving is different.  But mine was OK for years like that.

 

Does the ZJ pump have the reservoir right on the pump, or remote?

 

Thanks!

 

Tom

[HOrnbrod]

Got your pump and gear mixed up in my above email - sorry and disregard.

 

I have an oddball setup; 96 ZJ steering gear with a 04 TJ pump (reservoir on the pump). They play well together as did the original 91 pump that I replaced because of terminal leaking.

 

I'm not familiar with the 2.5 setup but it looks like the 2.5 is a much different pump than the 4.0 and has a remote reservoir. I don't see how your problem can be anything other than the pump Tom, even though you have replaced it. The p/n for the 87-90 XJ/MJ 2.5 pump is 53005017. Recommend trying to get a cheap used pump from a 87-90 and sticking it on. You can pick these up for $30-$40 on Ebay, car-part.com, etc. Even if it leaks a bit but works and doesn't create excess pressure you have now you'll know what the problem is.

 

Maybe someone on the forum has a spare 2.5 pump they would be willing to part with too.

 

Are you sure the belt routing is correct and the pump has the correct pulley installed? V-belts or serp?

[Eagle]

I'm running a '98 ZJ box in a 2001 XJ with the stock XJ pump and there are no problems. There shouldn't be any incompatibility between your pump and the steering box -- and you ran it that way for five years, which should be proof enough.

If I'm remembering all the old posts correctly, you now have a new (to you) pump in there and a new (to you) steering box, and the same problem keeps happening. So let's think about what you HAVEN'T replaced. I think you mentioned saving by not buying hoses. Maybe that wasn't such a saving. We know that brake hoses can deteriorate internally and create blockages. Why would a power steering hose be any different? The makeup of the fluid going through them may be different, but both are hydraulic pressure hoses. I would look at the hoses as being the only thing left that you haven't replaced.

[HOrnbrod]

I'm running a '98 ZJ box in a 2001 XJ with the stock XJ pump and there are no problems. There shouldn't be any incompatibility between your pump and the steering box -- and you rant it that way for five years, which should be proof enough.

 

If I'm remembering all the old posts correctly, you now have a new (to you) pump in there and a new (to you) steering box, and the same problem keeps happening. So let's think about what you HAVEN'T replaced. I think you mentioned saving by not buying hoses. Maybe that wasn't such a saving. We know that brake hoses can deteriorate internally and create blockages. Why would a power steering hose be any different? The makeup of the fluid going through them may be different, but both are hydraulic pressure hoses. I would look at the hoses as being the only thing left that you haven't replaced.

 

Sounds like he replaced the hoses......

 

The mechanic, whom I trust, at first thought air was coming in.  So I ordered a new pump (AC delco reman), new hoses/O-rings, and a new Chrysler gear from a ZJ.  I installed the pump and hoses, the tech put in the box, because I was out of time.  He has since gone back and checked the pump, replaced all the O-rings just in case.  He did some playing around and crimped one of the hoses a bit, which lessened the problem.

[HOrnbrod]

Another thought - the 2.5's have a pressure switch on the high pressure side of the pump. I thought it's purpose was to bump up the engine RPMs when the pump is under strain, like when parking. Is the switch there and hooked up? It may have something to do with regulating the pump pressure too, not sure........

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/53000970-Crown-Power-Steering-Pressure-Switch-JEEP-Wrangler-YJ-Cherokee-XJ-84-97-/291422484851?fits=Make%3AJeep&hash=item43da223973:g:pqEAAOxypNtSeaKY&vxp=mtr

[mjtjnj]

Eagle - yes, I replaced the hoses and o-rings

 

Don - You may be right about the pump; used are hard to find around these parts, but maybe it's worth the search or buying a new one instead of reman.

 

Mechanic wants me to go back to stock steering gear, but that seems like throwing good money after bad.  The one I bought, new, that's on there is PN 52088488AE

 

I have a serpentine belt setup, I've re-used my original pulley on all the pumps, and that pressure switch is a sensor that bumps the idle up when pressure increases on the high pressure hose (where the sensor goes).  That circuit hasn't worked in years, so I don't think that's the issue.

 

A friend of mine who is a tech at a technical school said maybe the pump needed to be turned while bleeding the system; he also thought maybe the tech could try a putting some vacuum to the reservoir while bleeding, to help draw the air out.  I have to go to the shop and discuss these ideas with my tech. 

[Tanner]

Eagle - yes, I replaced the hoses and o-rings

 

Don - You may be right about the pump; used are hard to find around these parts, but maybe it's worth the search or buying a new one instead of reman.

 

Mechanic wants me to go back to stock steering gear, but that seems like throwing good money after bad.  The one I bought, new, that's on there is PN 52088488AE

 

I have a serpentine belt setup, I've re-used my original pulley on all the pumps, and that pressure switch is a sensor that bumps the idle up when pressure increases on the high pressure hose (where the sensor goes).  That circuit hasn't worked in years, so I don't think that's the issue.

 

A friend of mine who is a tech at a technical school said maybe the pump needed to be turned while bleeding the system; he also thought maybe the tech could try a putting some vacuum to the reservoir while bleeding, to help draw the air out.  I have to go to the shop and discuss these ideas with my tech. 

When bleeding the power steering system you need to have the front wheels off of the ground and you need to turn it 21 or so times each way lock to lock to get the proper bleed.

 

Also with my recent power steering headaches I had a similar issue. I personally went through 3 reman pumps from A1 before getting one that actually worked. I was close to saying screw it and returning it then pulling a used one from the u pull it and rebuilding it myself. So even with the "new" pump it could still be the issue ultimately. You should have some sort of limited warranty on your reman pump

 

if the pressure switch is fairly cheap I would replace that as well just to cover all of the bases.

[Strokermjcomanche]

I don't know if it helps at all, but I have a new ( not used or rebuilt ) mopar power steering pump 53004817 for sale . That's if it's your problem .

 

http://comancheclub.com/topic/49296-new-nos-parts-for-sale-ohio-44509/?fromsearch=1

[mjtjnj]

Hey guys, been a little less than a year and I still haven't gotten to the bottom of this.  I'm at the point of converting it to manual steering or selling as-is.

 

A friend of mine, whom I trust, is a certified working tech.  He came over with a pressure gauge and fittings, and we got 300psi at the reservoir. 

 

We inspected all the hoses, the O-rings, everything.  He is "baffled."

 

I have replaced the pump (3x - and the newest one is from strokermjcomanche and it's a chryco unit).  I've had 3 different steering gears on it -- newest one is a NOS Chryco unit for a ZJ.  Hoses, O-rings, reservoir even has been replaced.

 

One thing that's been constant from the beginning:  when I get the wheels off the ground to bleed the system, when I get to full left lock and start back to the right, there is a "burp" of an air pocket in there.  Engine off.  I can't figure out why that's happening, but when I replace a part of the system, and then start to bleed it, when I hear that I know it's not going to work.

 

Are there any power steering guru's out there?  I am freaking stuck. 

 

To recap, I had a stock PS system and ZJ box for YEARS before fluid started blowing out of the reservoir one day, after a long drive.  Everything has been replaced numerous times, been to two shops, and had 3 techs look at it, all in all.  It makes no sense at all. 

 

Anyone got anything?

 

Thanks

Tom

 

[Tanner]

Is it only once your mj is hot that you notice the issue? 

or does it happen regardless of hot or cold start up?

Also when you  say blowing out of the reservoir, is it violent like a large volume at one time or just small amounts?

[DirtyComanche]

Does the 2.5L use a T/C pump like the 4L, or does it use a P pump like an older Chevy?  Is the correct fitting being used on the outlet?

 

Honestly, I think you just have trapped air from poor bleeding, and need to bleed it more.  Yeah, not the answer you want to hear, but you've replaced everything so short of having the lines hooked up backwards (which really doesn't work out, and is extremely difficult to do), there just isn't a lot of options.  The way the internal passages are drilled in the steering box can cause difficulty with bleeding if the box has been run really low on oil.  I would recommend filling the system up, doing the lock to lock with the tires off the ground/not running thing about 30 times while checking the fluid level, then fire it up with the tires still off the ground and go lock to lock again a couple times, shut it off, keep doing it with them in the air and not running, run it again, and repeat for a while.  It's almost impossible to have a return side leak that will admit air rather than leaking fluid.

 

Would you take a picture so there is no 'smoking gun' that we don't know about?