power steering help, please (2.5)

[mjtjnj]

Thanks for the reply, DC.  I'm not sure what T/C and P are, but it has a remote reservoir up next to the radiator.  You mean the high pressure outlet?  Not sure what fitting. 

 

I certainly will try bleeding it again, but I lost count of how many times I've done it, and two shops have done it.  You're right, I think it would be impossible to hook the lines up wrong (they are different diameter fittings, I believe).

 

I will take some pics in the next couple of days, when I get myself mentally prepared to go out and play with it some more.

[mjtjnj]

Tanner, it does it as soon as I start it up.  BLASTS out of the reservoir if the cap is off, and pours out of the weep hole and around the seal if it is on.

[DirtyComanche]

I didn't realize they used that remote reservoir setup on the 2.5L in a MJ.  I've seen it on TJs, but I swear all the older 2.5L stuff I've looked at uses a P pump with the pear shaped reservoir around the pump.  Anyways, it's a T/C pump then, not that it really helps you at this point.

 

I'm still banking on you have an issue with how it is bled and will need to deal with it first.  That style of reservoir can make bleeding MUCH harder.  I would recommend shaking the lines after you fill the system, and tapping the pump and hard fittings with a screwdriver handle, and absolutely make sure that line is routed correctly and is free of low/high spots that can trap air.  Basically, try to get the air pockets free and flowing back up to the reservoir on the inlet side of the pump.  The issue is that ANY air that is pushed through the pump will expand massively when it makes it way to the return side of the system.  Your initial problem easily could have come from low fluid level causing one gulp of air getting sucked in when cornering/braking/hitting a bump, and from there the problem compounds itself as the air is forced through the system and causes the oil to become emulsified with air.

 

Edit, also, I would go back on my previous advice with this system and avoid running it during the bleed process for a lot longer.  Only try running it after you've done a pile of lock to lock turns.  Maybe 100!

 

Also, make sure the correct outlet fitting is in that pump.  People (like me) play with the orifice sizes in them for various reasons, and there is more than one size/style offered from the factory.  It should be about 1/8" max if it's factory correct.  Also, people play with the relief valve in the pump, might be worth pulling it out, BUT if this was a known good pump (not an 'new' reman unit, at least half the shops that reman them have no idea what they're doing and will put the wrong/modified parts back in them!) and you did not change the outlet fitting, I would not worry about this.

[DirtyComanche]

And you did say you changed the reservoir, correct?

 

Thanks for the reply, DC.  I'm not sure what T/C and P are, but it has a remote reservoir up next to the radiator.  You mean the high pressure outlet?  Not sure what fitting. 

 

I certainly will try bleeding it again, but I lost count of how many times I've done it, and two shops have done it.  You're right, I think it would be impossible to hook the lines up wrong (they are different diameter fittings, I believe).

 

I will take some pics in the next couple of days, when I get myself mentally prepared to go out and play with it some more.

 

Sorry, I'm a little scattered with my reply here.  The fitting I am referring to is the high pressure outlet fitting in the pump.  Behind it is the relief valve assembly.  Pull the hose off and look in it with a flashlight, there should be a fairly small hole in the center of it.  I have some pictures, give me a few.  If bleeding it extensively does not produce good results, I would recommend taking that fitting out and seeing what is going on with the relief valve, if it is not behaving correctly it will force a massive amount of fluid through the steering box, which does not help anything.

[mjtjnj]

Yeah, I believe the remote reservoir (T/C) setups were used on TBI 2.5L and the other style on carbureted models.

 

OK on the fitting -- I bought a new MOPAR one with the correct part #.

 

How would a line be routed to create a high/low spot? 

 

You're right about the initial problem -- maybe NONE of my components was to blame.

 

Any value in bleeding the system with vacuum applied to the reservoir?

 

Thanks for all the great advice!

 

Tom

[mjtjnj]

And, yes, the reservoir was the first thing I replaced, mostly because it was soaked in PS fluid and I had no idea where it was coming from.  I figured maybe it had a crack in it.  First wrong guess in a series of them!  I kept the old one and have a Crown Automotive reman on there now.

[DirtyComanche]

Yeah, I believe the remote reservoir (T/C) setups were used on TBI 2.5L and the other style on carbureted models.

 

OK on the fitting -- I bought a new MOPAR one with the correct part #.

 

How would a line be routed to create a high/low spot? 

 

You're right about the initial problem -- maybe NONE of my components was to blame.

 

Any value in bleeding the system with vacuum applied to the reservoir?

 

Thanks for all the great advice!

 

Tom

Alright, it's not your fitting, that's good. Hopefully the relief valve piston behind it is moving smoothly and not stuck, as that can happen as a result of taking the fitting out (shoddy remans may come with it stuck!), but it's probably not the case.

 

I don't know how the line between the reservoir and pump is run, or if it's a factory molded line or just bulk hose, but with something like that you want to make sure it has a nice even slope and minimum turns. Basically, you don't want it to look like a roller coaster, because that will trap air in it. If it's like that it's only a problem for bleeding, as once bled it will always be full of oil so it won't matter. Hence the comments on shaking/wiggling it and tapping the fittings with something that won't damage them, you just want to make sure any air bubbles in there are freed up and work their way back up into the reservoir and out of the system.

 

I wouldn't apply vacuum to it, it's probably counterproductive actually. What would be better is if you can take the cap off and stick a piece of (clean) radiator hose over the neck for the cap, and tighten a clamp around it (and a rag to get some of the weep, it's not like it's going to seal properly), then fill it right up with oil. That will put a little more head pressure on it for the process of bleeding it with the engine off. It's probably not necessary though, but it can be a handy trick for trying to fill/bleed other unruly fluid systems.

[mjtjnj]

OK quick update. Insane how long I've been without the MJ. Bleeding it forever wasn't getting it done, so I took it to a shop around the corner. They said the pressure was over 600psi, but weren't interested in why, like maybe there was air still in there. They futzed with the valve, put a cooler on it, and got it to 300psi and called it good. It no longer leaks, and is quiet, but they did a bit of redneck engineering.

 

Question for the board: if I were to get a later model pump with integrated reservoir off a later 2.5L, with bracketry, would I have to do a whole lot of messing with it to have the pulley line up with the other pulleys? Has anyone put a later model ps pump on a renix engine?

 

Thanks

Tom

[87Warrior]

I cannot comment on the late model pump/reservoir, but I can say my '86 has the pear shaped reservoir attached to the pump. I had to replace the pump last year as it was leaking and groaning. Pretty uneventful install.

 

[DirtyComanche]

Seems really odd still.  Where were they measuring the pressure?  Most pumps are set to >1000psi.

[mjtjnj]

Warrior, thanks. Yu have v belts in an 86? Is that the 2.8 v6?

 

DC, they were reading at the port in the high pressure hose where the sensor goes

[DirtyComanche]

The earlier 4 cylinders were all V-belt too, so 86 for the MJ, 84-86 for the XJ, and then there's YJ parts.

 

I'm still baffled as to what could be wrong with your P/S system.  It should be able to run at 1400psi and not have a hiccup.

[mjtjnj]

DC - it's the strangest thing I've ever seen.  Third set of parts - new everything, and still with symptoms.  Since the shop did their thing to it, the pump doesn't moan and whine any more, so I'm guessing there's no longer air in it, but fluid is still sloshing around the reservoir pretty good. 

 

I'm so disgusted, I'm thinking of selling it.  Got a guy coming to look at it today, jerry-rigged PS setup and all.

 

The other thing I might do is swap in a pump from a 4.0, with the reservoir attached, the less lines, the better.  Will see if I can dig one up at the boneyard.

[87Warrior]

 

 

Warrior, thanks. Yu have v belts in an 86? Is that the 2.8 v6?

 

DC, they were reading at the port in the high pressure hose where the sensor goes

It is a TBI 2.5L truck. The pulley didn't come with the pump so I assume it could be installed on a serpentine setup with the correct pulley. I ordered the pump with the reservoir attached from Napa.

[billyjp2]

Sucks no real conclusion ever came out of this.  I'm going through the identical scenario after adding power steering to a manual steering truck. 

[saveevryjp1998]

I have an 86 2.5 with the pear reservoir. Mine is the serpentine belt style though. It seams hard to find that style. Anyhow I replaced my pump, both lines, and switch with 0 issues. I didn't even have to raise the front. I used Royal Purple power steering fluid. I never have before. I had the low pressure side disconnected from the pump with a small funnel attached. The high pressure side was tightened up at both ends, but I had the switch out. I slowly like slooooowly poured into the funnel until my shaky hands would over pour so it backed up. I would walk away as soon as I did this. Id give it an hour or so and come back repeat. I did this until it reachec equilibrium with the switch. I then put some sensor safe permatex on and threaded on the switch tight. I removed reservoir cap and then slowly filled it to a little over the full line on cold. I knew it would settle. I still would pour some and walk away like before. I had the luxury of doing this over a couple days. After it was at the cold full settled over a period of time, I syarted the truck and slowly worked the steering (while on the ground) I did not go full lock though. I simply went about a quarter to half twice stopped. Walked away. I did this 3 times total going to full lock on the third time. Maybe I got lucky but that was it. I was done. I had to add after the first time. It went from full to low on cold. I filled to top again of cold while cold still. On the 3rd time it settled in the middle and I left it. I couldnt believe the difference. It is the tightest turning jeep I ever owned.

[saveevryjp1998]

I have never done a power steering pump before. I just looked at it like a brand new renix cooling system replacement and took a very similar approach. I fill the coolant lines much the same with a funnel on those.

[billyjp2]

I figured I would post my solution in case anyone else runs into this problem. 

 

I bought a brand new Crown Automotive power steering reservoir which did not have the return hole molded properly when the part was made.  There was only a small crack for the power steering fluid to return through. 

[DirtyComanche]

13 minutes ago, billyjp2 said:

I figured I would post my solution in case anyone else runs into this problem. 

 

I bought a brand new Crown Automotive power steering reservoir which did not have the return hole molded properly when the part was made.  There was only a small crack for the power steering fluid to return through. 

 

That would certainly cause problems.