teamsmith Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Hello, I've been through several 'winch related' threads and cannot find a discussion on this topic. I've come upon a decent deal for a new looking Warn Transfomer brush guard/winch bracket + M5000 winch for $650. The winch has never been unspooled. I do not intend to 'wheel', but would like to go off road a bit and would like to be able to pull myself out of a ditch. I know that I can't just use our jeeps weight of 3000 lbs because of some multiplication by inertia and off-axis torque moments, etc. but basically, if I use a snatch block, can I pull my truck out of a ditch or mud with a 5000lb winch? Thanks for your thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue88Comanche Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I have the warn trans4mer grille guard and love it. Now for the winch, you only get that full 5k with the first layer of cable (closest to the drum) after that it will degrade quickly. i think for my outer later (smittybuilt XRC-8) it only has a 6k pull rating. a snatch block will help but i would go with a bigger winch. $650 for the grille guard, winch carrier, and a starter utility winch is a good deal however. as compared to what i paid..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimoshel Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I think they get those winch load ratings by throwing a dart at a wall full of numbers. I have a 30 year old 8,000lb rated Warn winch on the front of my J20. I have picked the entire truck up off the ground with it. I have a Tool City 2000 lb winch on a boom truck. I can't pick up a 500 lb engine, tranny with a snatch block with it. Generally, the heavier the winch, the better quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebvance Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 A rule of thumb I always heard was you want your winch to be rated at 1.5 times the weight of the vehicle... for instance. a 4000lb truck (which Is what my mj weighs) should have a 6000 lb winch. I didn't listen to the guy that told me though. Thats why I have a 9500 lb winch.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I'd say if your not "seriously" wheeling and use a snatch block buy it use it but allow it to cool between pulls O and nothing looks better on a MJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsmith Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 great. thank you all for your comments. I agree that $650 is a pretty good deal for just the transformer without the winch. I will not be using this to climb rocks, only to get myself out of a jam or maybe pull stumps out of the ground. Looks like I may be making a drive tonight to pick it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue88Comanche Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 great. thank you all for your comments. I agree that $650 is a pretty good deal for just the transformer without the winch. I will not be using this to climb rocks, only to get myself out of a jam or maybe pull stumps out of the ground. Looks like I may be making a drive tonight to pick it up. If nothing else it is a good starter winch for utility work, i would not be completely dependent on a 5k winch for offroad recovery. I did pull this log out of the woods on the 3ed and 4th cable layers as a straight pull afterwards to pull it it required both the 5.7 tundra and my MJ to pull the tree to the burn pile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsmith Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 Jeff, I am not seeing your pics. It could be because your linking to a site my corporate firewall is blocking (FB, etc.). I was wanting to get a look at your jeep with the trans4mer. I'm trying to tell if this has a place to mount lights or if that is an extra piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue88Comanche Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Jeff, I am not seeing your pics. It could be because your linking to a site my corporate firewall is blocking (FB, etc.). I was wanting to get a look at your jeep with the trans4mer. I'm trying to tell if this has a place to mount lights or if that is an extra piece. yours looks slightly different from mine. Later on i purchased the "angled light bar" required for adding lights to the "grille guard center"... Annnnd somehow i don't have a picture with the angled light bar installed.... The Trans4mer Grille guard is considered "modular" by WARN. So you have the Grille Guard center, Brush Guards, Light bar, and winch carrier (or front 2" hitch) all being separate purchases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsmith Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 thanks. Your pictures help. Yours does look a lot more heavy duty than the one I'm looking at. solid steel vs. cut-outs, and possibly bigger, though it may just be perspective. It was made for and taken off a Cherokee so maybe it's just an older design. Now I'm a little less excited. My local CL has a winch bumper bracket that looks similar to the base trans4mer for $100 (or less). Maybe I'd be better served picking this up along with a higher rated winch. I see that I can get a smitty built xrc9 for $299 on ebay new. That's probably the better route. This guy's bumper bracket will look pretty good with a coat of paint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 To each their own but new that thing is $650 and it doesn't even replace the factory bumper. At least in the pictures it also appears to kill approach angle. Warn makes a dandy winch for sure. I am cheap and went with an Engo 9000 for 1/5th the price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsmith Posted February 12, 2015 Author Share Posted February 12, 2015 To each their own but new that thing is $650 and it doesn't even replace the factory bumper. At least in the pictures it also appears to kill approach angle. Warn makes a dandy winch for sure. I am cheap and went with an Engo 9000 for 1/5th the price. I'm now looking at a smittybuilt 9500 for about the same price at the Engo. They seem to be about the same specs. I don't think the bracket style has a big effect on approach angle considering I'm not cutting any sheet metal like I would need to do on a bumper. New question: How strict are these minimum CCA battery ratings? It says minimum 660 CCA for the Smitty and 650 for the Engo. I recently replaced my battery with a new 550 CCA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Oh to be clear I would have bought a nice Warn if it were in the budget. It just wasn't. For 12-15 wheeling trips a year I think I will be OK. I have survived this far without one at all so.... Not sure on the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gogmorgo Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 A winch will be like a starter draw on a battery. If the cca's aren't high enough, the battery won't be able to put out enough current for the motor's maximum pull. You'd get away with it at a cost of reduced pulling power and battery life expectancy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjrev10 Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I'd say minimum for a jeep is a 8000lb winch. Bet there is more m8000s and 8274s on the front of jeeps then anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 For what it's worth, when the Cherokee and Comanche first came out the factory offered something called a "Hiden Winch" option. The winch mount moved the bumper forward about 8 inches, allowing the winch to be installed behind the factory bumper and run the cable through a fairlead cut into the face of the bumper. I've never seen one in the flesh in the U.S. but I saw a lot of them when visiting my wife's family in South America. The factory used Ramsey winches, rated either 5,000 or 6,000 pounds (depending on year, I guess). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 The Spec is 1.5 times the Vehicle weight minimum but Usually Bumped up to 8000lbs... Personally I go up as large as you can afford as the typical weight of the actual winch does not increase by much and you get greater pulling strength with less cable out... I run a 12000lbs Mile Marker on a Warn Winch Bumper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incommando Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 For what it's worth, when the Cherokee and Comanche first came out the factory offered something called a "Hiden Winch" option. The winch mount moved the bumper forward about 8 inches, allowing the winch to be installed behind the factory bumper and run the cable through a fairlead cut into the face of the bumper. I've never seen one in the flesh in the U.S. but I saw a lot of them when visiting my wife's family in South America. The factory used Ramsey winches, rated either 5,000 or 6,000 pounds (depending on year, I guess). Rusty's and others also do a behind the bumper winch mount. have no pictures of mine yet but here is what I have: http://www.rustysoffroad.com/jeep-bumpers/rustys-jeep-bumpers/jeep-xj-cherokee-bumpers/rustys-bumper-front-trail-bumper-w-o-pre-runner-bar-xj.html Image Not Found The winch is mounted 90 degrees from the normal position and tucks behind the bumper. The bumper itself extends forward about the same amount as the factory one. This position also keeps the winch from obstructing the radiator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eagle Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 For what it's worth, when the Cherokee and Comanche first came out the factory offered something called a "Hiden Winch" option. The winch mount moved the bumper forward about 8 inches, allowing the winch to be installed behind the factory bumper and run the cable through a fairlead cut into the face of the bumper. I've never seen one in the flesh in the U.S. but I saw a lot of them when visiting my wife's family in South America. The factory used Ramsey winches, rated either 5,000 or 6,000 pounds (depending on year, I guess). Rusty's and others also do a behind the bumper winch mount. have no pictures of mine yet but here is what I have: Yes, but the factory Hidden Winch option used a stock bumper. The factory two hook brackets had two sets of holes -- one set mounted the bumper in the normal position, the other set moved the bumper forward to make the space for the winch. And, as you commented, the winch was "clocked" 90 degrees from what we consider the normal mounting position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeepman Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Ya I have searched for the Brackets with no luck... This is the only actual picture I have seen of the Factory hidden Winch... Image Not Found Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teamsmith Posted February 14, 2015 Author Share Posted February 14, 2015 Thanks for all the great comments. While driving home tonight, I had a catastrophic failure with the engine which resulted in a sizeable hole in the block, shown below just behind the ground cable. You could say that my priorities just shifted. Now to start a new thread about opinions on reman/rebuilt engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 Lq9... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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