Wiggilez Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 So when I started this project I bought a little 110v 140 amp Lincoln MIG welder to patch some holes in my truck. I'm now getting ready to put new perches on my D44. Will my welder be able to successfully weld them on, or is it not powerful enough? thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dankicksass Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I'm interested in this thread, bought a same size Hobart Millermatic for axle fab, metal patching and bumper fab and so on. I read a few days ago that I'll need to heat the axle tubes to 400° F to get adequate penetration. I think MAPP gas is adequate for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blue XJ Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I used my 140 amp lincoln to weld my perches on about 8 years ago, I haven't had an issue yet. Make sure the metal is spotless on both pieces, you could even bevel the ends of the perch, and do a couple passes if needed. I did one pass on mine on the outside, and then I welded them on the inside as best I could as well, since I wasn't sure if the welder was up to the task. You could always take a propane torch and warm the tube up in the area you will be welding. Edit: I used mine with flux core wire for the perches, flux core burns a little hotter and lets the welder do thicker metal than if you ran it with shielding gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxmj Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 As Blue XJ says ......if your welder is capable of reversing the polarity and running flux core, it is a hotter weld. But just to clear something up.....when a welder is rated at say 1/8" metal or 1/2" metal that is the thickness that the welder is capable of doing in one pass. There is no law that says you cannot use multiple passes to build up a thick bead.The key to welding is penetration.....if I was to weld a bolt standing on end onto a 6" x 6" 1/4 plate i would pick it up and examine the back of the plate.....they should be an obvious blue/black discoloration (and maybe bubbling would be good) A good example is the test given to get a welding "Ticket" for heavy gauge flat. The student is given 3 pieces of 1/4" steel 2" x 6" one of them has a 45* angle on one of the six inch edges. They are instructed to lay the one with the 45* edge one top of one of the others with a 3/4 inch overlap....tac it.....then lay the other one on the other side and tac it....so now you have a 1/2" space with one side at 45*. They are instructed to run a bead down one side....at one point the instructor taps there shoulder....they must stop welding flip up their mask and look at the instructor until he tells them to proceed. Then they finish the bead.......same for the other side. Now they are allowed as many capping beads as the want......then they grind it smooth.....place it in a band saw and cut it across the weld into 3 pieces 2" wide.....the pieces are then put (weld side down) into a press with a die that has a radius of 2" and pressed into a "U" shape.....the instructor the examines the outside (welded side) of the U.....any crack bigger than 1/16" is a fail. http://mewelding.com/multi-pass-welds/ Just make sure you grind all parts to clean metal before you start.......wire brush (or wire wheel) heavily between each pass.....make sure you are getting good penetration....do not worry how the weld looks, you can dress it with a grinder after. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggilez Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 thank you for you guys advice, yes I am able to reverse the polarity of my welder so i should be able to run flux core wire. If I do so should I pre-heat before attempting or will it be good to go "cold"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Mapp gas cannot heat the metal that thick fast enough with the average household torch attachment Layering beads does not equal penetration. You need the most penetration possible on the first pass. The cleaner it is, the better off you are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggilez Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 My axle is nice and shiny, now I just need to get some perches. will any universal work or should I use something specific? Also i'm doing it up SOA style if it matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
87Warrior Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I didn't trust my 110v Hobart to weld new axle brackets on my TJ's rear axle. I tried and tried to get good penetration with scrap metal and scrap axle tube, but I wasn't satisfied, even though it probably would have worked fine. Used a buddies 220v Miller and was very pleased with the results. RuffStuff has some nice, long, perches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxmj Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Layering beads does not equal penetration. You need the most penetration possible on the first pass. It is a proven and acceptable way to weld http://mewelding.com/multi-pass-welds/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 layering without penetration on an xrayed piece will fail you every time. Words of a professional welder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Without oxy acedaline preheat, you cannot weld a spring perch onto an axle tube and have passable welds with a 110v machine. It may work, but it is not strong. Also, flux core is not the way to do it without skill and training...you need er70s-6 with 25/75 mixed gas. This is the most user friendly combination. Also, a "welder" who says you can just grind it to make it look good is not skilled at welding Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxmj Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 So when I started this project I bought a little 110v 140 amp Lincoln MIG welder to patch some holes in my truck. I'm now getting ready to put new perches on my D44. Will my welder be able to successfully weld them on, or is it not powerful enough? thanks. Don't let the negitive posts discourage you....it has been done before and it can be done again......google it and watch some you tube....you will get lots of tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neohic Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 layering without penetration on an xrayed piece will fail you every time. Words of a professional welder Agreed. If I have a 1" thick piece of metal with a crack in it, I'm not going to just lay 1" thick worth of weld on top. You have to grind down to the bottom of the crack and start from where the problem started. 110V welders are great but I'm with the crowd that wouldn't trust welding spring perches with one. If equipment is an issue, you can always tack everything together and bring the whole works to someone who can do it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 So when I started this project I bought a little 110v 140 amp Lincoln MIG welder to patch some holes in my truck. I'm now getting ready to put new perches on my D44. Will my welder be able to successfully weld them on, or is it not powerful enough? thanks. Don't let the negitive posts discourage you....it has been done before and it can be done again......google it and watch some you tube....you will get lots of tips. Not negative posts at all. They are well informed posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggilez Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 Agreed. If I have a 1" thick piece of metal with a crack in it, I'm not going to just lay 1" thick worth of weld on top. You have to grind down to the bottom of the crack and start from where the problem started. 110V welders are great but I'm with the crowd that wouldn't trust welding spring perches with one. If equipment is an issue, you can always tack everything together and bring the whole works to someone who can do it right. I think I'll try it my self first, just to see how it goes, if not my friends dad does welding as a job and I'll see if he's willing to help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xjrev10 Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 I used to work for a dock company on a barge as a operator/welder. All we had was a Hobart 140 with self shield wire. I welded everything from marine rail systems, anchor points, pin brackets and of course just general docks. Never had a failure. These docks are steel frame lift outs up to 50' that get lifted from the end vertically and pivot at shore line. These are heavy. Also the rail systems support everything from 12' aluminum to a 621 ranger with 300hp. Welds where made on up to half inch plate sometimes for rock anchors and shoe pivot points. Of course they where multipass. I went to school for welding and had a lot of expirence with this specific process in a professional setting. I wouldn't hesitate to use on perches. And I have with out any issue. Also there is a front d44 in a buddies TJ and all the welding was done with a 110 welder. It gets wheeled hard and never had any issues. 1/4" brackets. With all of the above said, I will be getting soon a 220 mig for my garage. My 110 works but yes I would be more confident with a more powerful machine. If all you have is a 110, make it work. Get it warm, make sure you burn in a good root pass. Then I'd put 2 more passes for good measure. I just read something recently about someone who bought a YJ and was redoing the leafs or something. He noticed shoddy welding on the perches and whacked them good with a 4lb hammer and they came off. Just a little spooky.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxmj Posted May 10, 2014 Share Posted May 10, 2014 Agreed. If I have a 1" thick piece of metal with a crack in it, I'm not going to just lay 1" thick worth of weld on top. You have to grind down to the bottom of the crack and start from where the problem started. 110V welders are great but I'm with the crowd that wouldn't trust welding spring perches with one. If equipment is an issue, you can always tack everything together and bring the whole works to someone who can do it right. I think I'll try it my self first, just to see how it goes, if not my friends dad does welding as a job and I'll see if he's willing to help. Look around and find some heavy material......or an old junk yard axle would be great......run some practice beads and weld some junk together.....take a sledgehammer to them after and see how well thy hold. You can do it..... :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggilez Posted May 10, 2014 Author Share Posted May 10, 2014 Agreed. If I have a 1" thick piece of metal with a crack in it, I'm not going to just lay 1" thick worth of weld on top. You have to grind down to the bottom of the crack and start from where the problem started. 110V welders are great but I'm with the crowd that wouldn't trust welding spring perches with one. If equipment is an issue, you can always tack everything together and bring the whole works to someone who can do it right. I think I'll try it my self first, just to see how it goes, if not my friends dad does welding as a job and I'll see if he's willing to help. Look around and find some heavy material......or an old junk yard axle would be great......run some practice beads and weld some junk together.....take a sledgehammer to them after and see how well thy hold. You can do it..... :thumbsup: That would a smarter to do it. I'll have to see if I can find some cheap scrap somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW86 Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 Here's some advice, don't be complete moron by thinking it just a few quick tacks and not throw down the mask. A buddy is suffering from welders flash right now and it's no joke. He only did a few quick welds and it got him good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wiggilez Posted May 13, 2014 Author Share Posted May 13, 2014 I've got a mask, also double cover-alls to prevent sparks from burning me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banshee Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Guys I welded mine with 110v machine. fluxcore on 80 amps Been there for several years go slow And weld them on you still have U bolts Doing the work.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timeless Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 You can probably get away with a 110v machine for leaf perches simply because, as mentioned, the U-Bolts are holding everything together. I sure as hell would not suggest welding link brackets or other attachments to an axle with a 110v machine unless you have a death wish. The most important thing is knowing what you are doing. Practice, practice, practice... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeepcoMJ Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Ubolts compress, they hold zero rotational force. The above post is an invalid excuse to do it wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timeless Posted May 13, 2014 Share Posted May 13, 2014 Ubolts compress, they hold zero rotational force. The above post is an invalid excuse to do it wrong Correct on U-Bolt function. As the perch welds have to only withstand rotational forces, it can likely be done, as many other have already mentioned, with a 110v machine with multiple passes. Would I consider this the right way? Hell no. Would I beat on the truck knowing my perches were welded with only 110. Again, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yxmj Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 It can be done as it has been hundreds of times before. :thumbsup: . :MJ 1: . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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